Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(03-07-2018, 02:52 PM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ]Looking at some guys that are 6'3 and taller

Courtland Sutton
Marcell Ateman
Auden Tate
Equanimeous St. Brown
Simmie Cobbs Jr
Allen Lazard
Jaleel Scott

Not saying his replacement HAS to be of similar size as ARob, but it would be nice to have a guy you can throw it up to and will win a 50/50 ball

I really like Ateman. I hope the Jags can snag this dude.

The receiver class may not have a Julio Jones or Beckham, but it is very deep. This should enable the Jags to wait until the 3rd round to draft a potential starter and still get their tight end in the first and offensive lineman in the 2nd.

(03-07-2018, 01:27 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2018, 01:17 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]That's so true man. I can't even name any Maryland QB ever. 

Moore had what 8 QBs? That's insane and he was still mega productive. 

Not sure if he even makes #29 atm, what do you think?

At one point, Moore had a backup linebacker as his QB.... If Pigrome or Hill had not gotten hurt very early in the season, you're talking about Moore being a top 20 player. I mean look at these turds.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/tea...s/_/id/120

I think the fact that Diggs is doing so well will help Moore and his draft stock. People slept on Diggs and I wanted the Jags to draft him so bad. I think there's a chance that he falls to 29 but Carolina, Titans, or Rams could all be a team to take him depending on what they do in FA.

That has to be one of the worst QB situations ever seen at the college level right. 

I think his combine testing and coming in at 6 ft really sold him to teams in the 1st.  

The Panthers would probably be my guess for him.

(03-07-2018, 06:10 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]The receiver class may not have a Julio Jones or Beckham, but it is very deep. This should enable the Jags to wait until the 3rd round to draft a potential starter and still get their tight end in the first and offensive lineman in the 2nd.

I agree, or OG in the first and TE in the 2nd

(03-07-2018, 02:52 PM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ]Looking at some guys that are 6'3 and taller

Courtland Sutton - 4.54, 35.4
Marcell Ateman - 4.62, 34"
Auden Tate - 4.68, 31"
Equanimeous St. Brown - 4.48 (dnp on vert)
Simmie Cobbs Jr - 4.64, 30"
Allen Lazard - 4.55, 38"
Jaleel Scott - 4.56, 34.5"

Not saying his replacement HAS to be of similar size as ARob, but it would be nice to have a guy you can throw it up to and will win a 50/50 ball

Just for a reference, I put their combine 40-time and their vertical leap numbers by their names.

Limiting the list to WRs over 6'3 who run a sub 4.6 with a vert of at least 34" were down to...

• Courtland Sutton
  
• Equanimeous St. Brown
  
• Allen Lazard
  
• Jaleel Scott
  

Sutton makes sense to me at #29. St. Brown makes sense with our late round two pick. I'm not sure where Lazard and Scott, but nfl.com is calling them backups on the next level which pretty much means day three for them. Personally, I'm all over Sutton and St. Brown and I'm hoping the Jaguars come away with one of them. 

Did Steve Ishmael not get invited to the combine?

(03-07-2018, 08:28 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2018, 02:52 PM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ]Looking at some guys that are 6'3 and taller

Courtland Sutton - 4.54, 35.4
Marcell Ateman - 4.62, 34"
Auden Tate - 4.68, 31"
Equanimeous St. Brown - 4.48 (dnp on vert)
Simmie Cobbs Jr - 4.64, 30"
Allen Lazard - 4.55, 38"
Jaleel Scott - 4.56, 34.5"

Not saying his replacement HAS to be of similar size as ARob, but it would be nice to have a guy you can throw it up to and will win a 50/50 ball

Just for a reference, I put their combine 40-time and their vertical leap numbers by their names.

Limiting the list to WRs over 6'3 who run a sub 4.6 with a vert of at least 34" were down to...

• Courtland Sutton
  
• Equanimeous St. Brown
  
• Allen Lazard
  
• Jaleel Scott
  

Sutton makes sense to me at #29. St. Brown makes sense with our late round two pick. I'm not sure where Lazard and Scott, but nfl.com is calling them backups on the next level which pretty much means day three for them. Personally, I'm all over Sutton and St. Brown and I'm hoping the Jaguars come away with one of them. 

I just want to mention a WR doesn’t need to be 6’3 to be successful. You’re going to miss out on a lot of good prospects by limiting yourself to 6’3 height requirement. I put more weight on the vertical than any other measurable.

(03-07-2018, 09:24 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2018, 08:28 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Just for a reference, I put their combine 40-time and their vertical leap numbers by their names.

Limiting the list to WRs over 6'3 who run a sub 4.6 with a vert of at least 34" were down to...

• Courtland Sutton
  
• Equanimeous St. Brown
  
• Allen Lazard
  
• Jaleel Scott
  

Sutton makes sense to me at #29. St. Brown makes sense with our late round two pick. I'm not sure where Lazard and Scott, but nfl.com is calling them backups on the next level which pretty much means day three for them. Personally, I'm all over Sutton and St. Brown and I'm hoping the Jaguars come away with one of them. 

I just want to mention a WR doesn’t need to be 6’3 to be successful. You’re going to miss out on a lot of good prospects by limiting yourself to 6’3 height requirement. I put more weight on the vertical than any other measurable.

Agree with this, i want the best WR.  I dont care about the hieght

(03-07-2018, 09:24 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2018, 08:28 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Just for a reference, I put their combine 40-time and their vertical leap numbers by their names.

Limiting the list to WRs over 6'3 who run a sub 4.6 with a vert of at least 34" were down to...

• Courtland Sutton
  
• Equanimeous St. Brown
  
• Allen Lazard
  
• Jaleel Scott
  

Sutton makes sense to me at #29. St. Brown makes sense with our late round two pick. I'm not sure where Lazard and Scott, but nfl.com is calling them backups on the next level which pretty much means day three for them. Personally, I'm all over Sutton and St. Brown and I'm hoping the Jaguars come away with one of them. 

I just want to mention a WR doesn’t need to be 6’3 to be successful. You’re going to miss out on a lot of good prospects by limiting yourself to 6’3 height requirement. I put more weight on the vertical than any other measurable.

From searching around for an answer, it looks like the average height and weight of NFL wide receivers is 6' 2", 205 Lbs.

According to the late Bill Walsh, the ideal size is 6' 3", 210 Lbs.

http://www.sportsxchange.com/DS97/walsh/walsh2wr.htm

As Bill noted strength is somewhat related to girth. Bill notes as Michael Irvin always does, "you need to power THROUGH players." The wide receiver game is largely played upright. You have to have a strong upper body to make it. The reason height is usually critical relates to upper body strength associated with the larger body type.

Smaller wide receivers can flourish for a while, but they don't remain durable. They pay a awful price when they are used frequently. 

I would like to trend away from acquiring smaller wide receivers relating to their inability to match up physically against pro defensive backs. College play doesn't feature bump and run. Many smaller wide outs wash out in the pros when they face DBs that are just as fast or faster than they are, and they strong and powerful players able to bump and run all day.

I can think of many great WRs. I'll apply their measurables.


Art Monk - 6' 3" - 210 Lbs.
Charley Taylor - 6' 3" - 210 Lbs.
Otis Taylor - 6' 3" - 215 Lbs.
Larry Fitzgerald - 6' 3" - 215 Lbs.
Michael Irvin - 6' 2" - 217 Lbs.
Jerry Rice - 6' 2" - 200 Lbs.
Fred Bilenikoff - 6' 1" - 190 Lbs.
Drew Pearson - 6' 0" - 212 Lbs.
Randy Moss - 6' 4" - 210 Lbs.
Terrell Owens - 6' 3" - 224 Lbs.
James Lofton - 6' 3" - 192 Lbs.
Cris Carter - 6' 3" - 202 Lbs.
Andre Reed - 6' 2" - 190 Lbs.
Boyd Dowler - 6' 5" - 224 Lbs.
Roger Carr - 6' 3" - 200 Lbs.
Lenny Moore - 6' 1" - 191 Lbs.
Jack Snow - 6' 2" - 190 Lbs.

The measure-ables for WRs pretty much didn't alter from one decade to the next. To be fair there are a number of individuals smaller than ideal that have had very good NFL careers. 5' 11" Steve Largent is one. Dan Marino threw to two 5' 9" guys Clayton and Duper. Even Nat Moore was 5' 9".

Whatever the size you NEVER take a player onto your roster with suspect hands. I think the great lapses in judgment come when a team sees size and speed and willingly over-looks a lack of natural hands. 

Walsh pointed out that Jerry Rice was not the fastest WR in the game. He ran a disappointing 4.7 at his Combine, but he never got caught from behind using ''the functional speed to stay away from or get away from defenders."

I think my favorite options now are Goedert or Gesecki in the 1st, St. Brown in the 2nd, and then Ragnow in the 3rd. I don't view oline as nearly the problem y'all do though. We're set at 3 of the positions so Ragnow + a FA OG is more than good enough for me. TE and WR are way bigger needs than oline.

(03-07-2018, 01:17 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2018, 01:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I live in MD/went to UMD and UMD WRs are always vastly underrated because they have had some of the worst QB play in the past 10 years. Torrey Smith, Diggs and Moore would all have been drafted higher if they had a competent QB.

Moore stood out in almost every game they played this year.

That's so true man. I can't even name any Maryland QB ever. 

Moore had what 8 QBs? That's insane and he was still mega productive. 

Not sure if he even makes #29 atm, what do you think?

Boomer Esiason

(03-07-2018, 09:24 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2018, 08:28 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Just for a reference, I put their combine 40-time and their vertical leap numbers by their names.

Limiting the list to WRs over 6'3 who run a sub 4.6 with a vert of at least 34" were down to...

• Courtland Sutton
  
• Equanimeous St. Brown
  
• Allen Lazard
  
• Jaleel Scott
  

Sutton makes sense to me at #29. St. Brown makes sense with our late round two pick. I'm not sure where Lazard and Scott, but nfl.com is calling them backups on the next level which pretty much means day three for them. Personally, I'm all over Sutton and St. Brown and I'm hoping the Jaguars come away with one of them. 

I just want to mention a WR doesn’t need to be 6’3 to be successful. You’re going to miss out on a lot of good prospects by limiting yourself to 6’3 height requirement. I put more weight on the vertical than any other measurable.

So what if they're tall and can jump? Courtland Sutton measured in at 6' 3 3/8" with the 2nd highest vert on this list at 35 1/2".

I'd like to see what St. Brown's vert is at his pro day considering the guy blew the other tall WRs away with his sub-4.5 40, and he measured in at 6' 4 3/4".

So St.Brown started 13 games this year and had 500 receiving yards on 33 catches. Don't care if he barely ran sub 4.5, do care if he's a good football player. Sure, sign me up in the 5th or 6th round but why pick a guy early who hasn't had good production in his career?

At this point, I'm hoping for Gesicki, Hernandez or Moore in round 1.

I'm not going to speculate after that because the 2nd and 3rd round picks all depend on who we took first.

Not to go all "Jungle Cat" on folks, but I started thinking about the intent of this thread. It seemed to me that the OP was wanting to fill a gap in a perceived profile of WR. "Okay! We've got the 'quick but not fast slot' guy there, we've got the 'deep threat' guy over here, now we need a 'big body, high point' the ball guy!" But why not just get the best WRs that we can?

Look at the WR group that Pittsburgh rolls out. While they do have size in terms of Bryant, what they really have are productive Wideouts who catch the damn ball. Brown and Smith-Schuster are both sub 6' 2" guys, but they were both productive.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if you want to replace a player, then get the best player that you can, and don't rely on stereotypes.

(03-08-2018, 09:56 AM)Deacon Wrote: [ -> ]Not to go all "Jungle Cat" on folks, but I started thinking about the intent of this thread. It seemed to me that the OP was wanting to fill a gap in a perceived profile of WR. "Okay! We've got the 'quick but not fast slot' guy there, we've got the 'deep threat' guy over here, now we need a 'big body, high point' the ball guy!" But why not just get the best WRs that we can?

Look at the WR group that Pittsburgh rolls out. While they do have size in terms of Bryant, what they really have are productive Wideouts who catch the damn ball. Brown and Smith-Schuster are both sub 6' 2" guys, but they were both productive.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if you want to replace a player, then get the best player that you can, and don't rely on stereotypes.

That's dum.

(03-08-2018, 09:56 AM)Deacon Wrote: [ -> ]Not to go all "Jungle Cat" on folks, but I started thinking about the intent of this thread. It seemed to me that the OP was wanting to fill a gap in a perceived profile of WR. "Okay! We've got the 'quick but not fast slot' guy there, we've got the 'deep threat' guy over here, now we need a 'big body, high point' the ball guy!" But why not just get the best WRs that we can?

Look at the WR group that Pittsburgh rolls out. While they do have size in terms of Bryant, what they really have are productive Wideouts who catch the damn ball. Brown and Smith-Schuster are both sub 6' 2" guys, but they were both productive.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if you want to replace a player, then get the best player that you can, and don't rely on stereotypes.

They also got an elite qb who was dropping dimes from 40+ yards against the best secondary.

(03-07-2018, 11:50 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I think my favorite options now are Goedert or Gesecki in the 1st, St. Brown in the 2nd, and then Ragnow in the 3rd. I don't view oline as nearly the problem y'all do though. We're set at 3 of the positions so Ragnow + a FA OG is more than good enough for me. TE and WR are way bigger needs than oline.

Ragnow won't make it to our 3rd pick.  I'd be shocked if he was there at our 2nd pick.

(03-08-2018, 11:06 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2018, 11:50 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I think my favorite options now are Goedert or Gesecki in the 1st, St. Brown in the 2nd, and then Ragnow in the 3rd. I don't view oline as nearly the problem y'all do though. We're set at 3 of the positions so Ragnow + a FA OG is more than good enough for me. TE and WR are way bigger needs than oline.

Ragnow won't make it to our 3rd pick.  I'd be shocked if he was there at our 2nd pick.

The Chargers, Rams, Falcons, Bengals and Bills all have major needs at Center. I see Daniels, Price and Ragnow all gone before our 2nd pick.

(03-08-2018, 09:17 AM)ColoJag Wrote: [ -> ]So St.Brown started 13 games this year and had 500 receiving yards on 33 catches. Don't care if he barely ran sub 4.5, do care if he's a good football player. Sure, sign me up in the 5th or 6th round but why pick a guy early who hasn't had good production in his career?

Like DJ Moore, St. Brown suffered because of poor QB play.