That's insanely high for Esch. I think that's the highest I've seen him anywhere. I like the Wynn pick in this mock draft. I think it's a great fit. He'll certainly help out in the running game and should push Cann for his job right away. I honestly wouldn't mind Esch at 29 though if he's there late and there's really nobody else we need at that time. Esch could be a great addition to the defense.
Agreed, Esch shouldn't go above Smith.
I'd be very happy with Wynn with our pick though. Puts Cann back on the bench and we can see how he does at RT as a replacement for Parnell next year too.
(04-05-2018, 11:09 AM)Markulous Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, Esch shouldn't go above Smith.
I'd be very happy with Wynn with our pick though. Puts Cann back on the bench and we can see how he does at RT as a replacement for Parnell next year too.
One thing I would say about Wynn as a Jaguar.
With his feet, I would think it would diversify our blocking schemes such that there would be more pulling plays like counter treys, possibly traps, making our running game more diverse.
I would think we'd see more screens, too.
On the other hand, I would still worry about his ability to hold up at the point of attack against bigger, more powerful DTs.
(04-05-2018, 11:09 AM)Markulous Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, Esch shouldn't go above Smith.
I'd be very happy with Wynn with our pick though. Puts Cann back on the bench and we can see how he does at RT as a replacement for Parnell next year too.
Comparing Esch to Smith is an apples and oranges comparison. Roquan is strictly a WLB whereas Leighton is strictly a MLB or SLB.
Hayden Hurst at #16 is also surprising. If a TE were to go there I would think it would be Goedert.
eh, meh. Mock drafts don't mean anything till the real draft.
(04-05-2018, 11:32 AM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]eh, meh. Mock drafts don't mean anything till the real draft.
Brilliant analysis.
Pete has really been on the wagon for Allen for awhile now. He loves him and his media buds are saying the Browns do too. I'm not an Allen fan at all. It would be such the Browns thing to do, but man... no way they take Allen first right lol? Only the Browns I guess...
The Browns are foolish if they take any of these "top" QB's IMHO that early. Neither of them are ready IMHO as rookies. Let Taylor get a feel for the offense in 2018. If they have any sense they would take another DE like Chubb to pair up with Garrett or they would take Barkley at RB and then take Nelson from ND to help shore up the offensive line some more. They also still have the 33rd, 35th and 64th overall picks for day two.
If they REALLY want to move back into the first round to land a QB they could do that. I would take my chances though with Mason Rudolph. I think that's better value in RD2. I don't personally like the kid for our team. But if CLE feels that Taylor is a good start at QB for 2018 and they like the upside on Rudolph as a back up plan. Why not drop one of your second round picks on the kid? Or pair two of them up and move back into RD1 late on opening night to land him for certain or maybe Jackson?
(04-05-2018, 02:54 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]The Browns are foolish if they take any of these "top" QB's IMHO that early. Neither of them are ready IMHO as rookies. Let Taylor get a feel for the offense in 2018. If they have any sense they would take another DE like Chubb to pair up with Garrett or they would take Barkley at RB and then take Nelson from ND to help shore up the offensive line some more. They also still have the 33rd, 35th and 64th overall picks for day two.
If they REALLY want to move back into the first round to land a QB they could do that. I would take my chances though with Mason Rudolph. I think that's better value in RD2. I don't personally like the kid for our team. But if CLE feels that Taylor is a good start at QB for 2018 and they like the upside on Rudolph as a back up plan. Why not drop one of your second round picks on the kid? Or pair two of them up and move back into RD1 late on opening night to land him for certain or maybe Jackson?
I think the Browns have a big problem.
They definitely need a QB. The guys at the top of this draft may develop into franchise signal callers, but I don't think any of them will have a Marino/Big Ben type rookie year. It may take them a year or two to develop.
The problem with that is Hue Jackson has been 1-31 the last two seasons. Whether you think all of the fault lay with him or not, the fact is if the team doesn't win this year, he will likely be out. Unless you keep Haley and the rest of the offensive philosophy in place, the offense will have to start all over again, and that runs the risk of stunting the growth of whatever QB they take #1 overall.
Think about how many #1 picks they've blown through, in part due to a change in coaching and philosophy. By just about any measure, Danny Shelton is a fine DT. But because they changed philosophy to the Gregg Williams attacking 46 based 4-3 which emphasizes smaller quicker DTs, the first round investment they just made in Shelton a few years ago is gone. Can you imagine spending that top pick on a QB, firing the coach/GM that drafted him, and having the new guy/guys say they have no use for him?
The circumstances in place for the Browns now begs for an in house hire if they fired Hue Jackson.
Things like this are why they can never seem to get over the hump, and illustrate why I am typically inclined to give coaches more time when others are eager to fire them.
(04-05-2018, 11:25 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2018, 11:09 AM)Markulous Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, Esch shouldn't go above Smith.
I'd be very happy with Wynn with our pick though. Puts Cann back on the bench and we can see how he does at RT as a replacement for Parnell next year too.
Comparing Esch to Smith is an apples and oranges comparison. Roquan is strictly a WLB whereas Leighton is strictly a MLB or SLB.
Hayden Hurst at #16 is also surprising. If a TE were to go there I would think it would be Goedert.
Roquan can play all 3 spots.
I love Vander Esch, but c'mon....... he's not gonna go near that high.
(04-05-2018, 03:47 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2018, 11:25 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Comparing Esch to Smith is an apples and oranges comparison. Roquan is strictly a WLB whereas Leighton is strictly a MLB or SLB.
Hayden Hurst at #16 is also surprising. If a TE were to go there I would think it would be Goedert.
Roquan can play all 3 spots.
Not really. His gift is pass rushing, but he's very small and can't fight off blocks if a big OL gets his hands on him.
(04-05-2018, 04:27 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2018, 03:47 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Roquan can play all 3 spots.
Not really. His gift is pass rushing, but he's very small and can't fight off blocks if a big OL gets his hands on him.
In what world is 6'1 236 small? Even if you take off a few Lbs thats still big enough. Check out Deion Jones playing inside at 6'1 220.
I think Roquans best spot is as a WILL but he can play inside too. Having elite range, agility and tackling makes up any blocking shedding problems.
(04-05-2018, 04:36 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2018, 04:27 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Not really. His gift is pass rushing, but he's very small and can't fight off blocks if a big OL gets his hands on him.
In what world is 6'1 236 small? Even if you take off a few Lbs thats still big enough. Check out Deion Jones playing inside at 6'1 220.
I think Roquans best spot is as a WILL but he can play inside too. Having elite range, agility and tackling makes up any blocking shedding problems.
Roquan would be an elite level WILL much like Telvin. On film tho, he'll get mauled by bigger players. That's his only real negative tho, plus you want him blitzing whenever possible so you want him outside. Roquan could be the next Lawrence Taylor.
Lance Zeirlien's analysis backs what 02 is saying.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/roquan-smi...7c92f2ffbe
He would be a "little" light playing middle or sam at the NFL level. As good a player he is, it's possible he could pull off MLB and Will versatility not unlike Daryl Smith, or hold his own in the middle as Peterson did being slightly undersized.
It's all how you ball.
(04-05-2018, 04:47 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-05-2018, 04:36 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]In what world is 6'1 236 small? Even if you take off a few Lbs thats still big enough. Check out Deion Jones playing inside at 6'1 220.
I think Roquans best spot is as a WILL but he can play inside too. Having elite range, agility and tackling makes up any blocking shedding problems.
Roquan would be an elite level WILL much like Telvin. On film tho, he'll get mauled by bigger players. That's his only real negative tho, plus you want him blitzing whenever possible so you want him outside. Roquan could be the next Lawrence Taylor.
Roquan and LT are very different players.
Roquans a 4-3 off ball LB with some blitz ability that you can use. You don't want him blitzing whenever possible. Just on some plays here and there.
MLB and SLB prototypes are 250-260.
220 is light no matter where you line up and is the exception, not the rule. Few can play MLB or even WLB at that weight. They are exceptional players.
230s are also on the bubble, but not impossible for WLB and MLB.
(04-05-2018, 05:12 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]MLB and SLB prototypes are 250-260.
220 is light no matter where you line up and is the exception, not the rule. Few can play MLB or even WLB at that weight. They are exceptional players.
230s are also on the bubble, but not impossible for WLB and MLB.
Maybe 10-15 years ago yeah.
Most off ball linebackers play at 240 or under these days. Many of them at the 230-240 range. Jones was an example of a player playing at 220 who wins with quickness vs block shedding inside. He's smaller than usual.
MLBs
Luke Keuchly : 6'3 238
Kwon Alexander : 6'1 227
Jordan Hicks: 6'1 236
Ryan Shazier: 6'1 230
Deion Jones: 6'1 222
Eric Kendricks : 6' 230
Reuben Foster : 6'1 228
Christian Kirksey: 6'2 235
Blake Martinez : 6'2 237
Wesley Woodyard: 6' 233
You get the picture. Prototypical weight is much lower than 250-260 for MLBs or SLBs now.
I do think we've been having Vander Esch fall too low on these boards, but 8 is too high also. I'd put him at 14 to the Packers right now, with his absolute floor being 28 but that looking more and more doubtful with every raving report that comes out about the guy.