(04-07-2018, 12:17 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]OBJ is on pace to be the best WR since Randy Moss. What he's done through his 3 healthy seasons is WR Mt. Rushmore good. Obviously he'd need to keep up the pace, but he was WAY ahead of Brown and Julio through 3 seasons.
I'd place a hefty bet that his career doesn't go close to as well from here on out. In my opinion his numbers are inflated because the Giants have had 0 run game while he was there (the same kind of inflated stats we saw with hurns and Robinson in 2015,) and Eli has made a lot of receivers look better than they are statistically just from a volume standpoint.
Arguing obj as the bar none best WR in the NFL is either lazy, stupid, or just contrarian for fun.
not enough money to bring him in. plus the dude is a basket case fighting with kicking nets and as well as targets. make like elsa and let it go. he is very talented though.
Price tag would be too steep. Keep pick 29 and get a good te or something. OBJ is good, but as everyone has stated, not worth the off field issues. We still have to sign our own studs too.
OBJ isnt even the best WR out of his own draft class. Mike Evans over OBJ any day, not to mention he stays healthy, younger, and even has more career yards than OBJ. If Evans had Eli throwing him the ball the last 4 years his numbers would be much better.
(04-07-2018, 12:17 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]OBJ is on pace to be the best WR since Randy Moss. What he's done through his 3 healthy seasons is WR Mt. Rushmore good. Obviously he'd need to keep up the pace, but he was WAY ahead of Brown and Julio through 3 seasons.
Is Teddy still the best QB too?
(04-10-2018, 12:02 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]OBJ isnt even the best WR out of his own draft class. Mike Evans over OBJ any day, not to mention he stays healthy, younger, and even has more career yards than OBJ. If Evans had Eli throwing him the ball the last 4 years his numbers would be much better.
(04-07-2018, 12:17 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]OBJ is on pace to be the best WR since Randy Moss. What he's done through his 3 healthy seasons is WR Mt. Rushmore good. Obviously he'd need to keep up the pace, but he was WAY ahead of Brown and Julio through 3 seasons.
Is Teddy still the best QB too?
OBJ : 498 targets , 313 receptions, 4424 yards, 38 TDs
Evans: 579 targets, 309 receptions, 4579 yards, 32 TDs.
Let's not pretend like there's a large gap between Eli Manning Vs Winston either.
Also, I don't think a Manziel and Tebow super fan has the right to slag someone about Teddy anymore.
I'll just say that I'm glad Jalen isn't the de facto GM like Lebron is of the Cavs. Thankfully, Coughlin and Marrone don't seem like diva-receiver collectors. Coughlin was burned by Soward and from what I read Marrone wasn't the biggest fan of drafting Sammy Watkins at the time.
(04-10-2018, 12:34 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 12:02 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]OBJ isnt even the best WR out of his own draft class. Mike Evans over OBJ any day, not to mention he stays healthy, younger, and even has more career yards than OBJ. If Evans had Eli throwing him the ball the last 4 years his numbers would be much better.
Is Teddy still the best QB too?
OBJ : 498 targets , 313 receptions, 4424 yards, 38 TDs
Evans: 579 targets, 309 receptions, 4579 yards, 32 TDs.
Let's not pretend like there's a large gap between Eli Manning Vs Winston either.
Also, I don't think a Manziel and Tebow super fan has the right to slag someone about Teddy anymore.
Eli's good day vs Winston's good day is a pretty sizeable gap favoring Eli, IMO.
They just both have plenty of bad days.
(04-10-2018, 03:13 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 12:34 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]OBJ : 498 targets , 313 receptions, 4424 yards, 38 TDs
Evans: 579 targets, 309 receptions, 4579 yards, 32 TDs.
Let's not pretend like there's a large gap between Eli Manning Vs Winston either.
Also, I don't think a Manziel and Tebow super fan has the right to slag someone about Teddy anymore.
Eli's good day vs Winston's good day is a pretty sizeable gap favoring Eli, IMO.
They just both have plenty of bad days.
I think Beckham has played a huge role in keeping Eli afloat since 2014 production wise. Was v good in 2014+2015. Last two seasons Eli+ Winston have been very comparable.
I'd rather Eli in a vacuum but I don't think there is a big difference in how they help their WRs produce.
It''s probably a good thing Jalen doesn't have a say in personnel decisions because at the rate he mentions players he'd like to see the team sign, there wouldn't be any money left to pay him when his contract comes up.
(04-10-2018, 12:34 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 12:02 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]OBJ isnt even the best WR out of his own draft class. Mike Evans over OBJ any day, not to mention he stays healthy, younger, and even has more career yards than OBJ. If Evans had Eli throwing him the ball the last 4 years his numbers would be much better.
Is Teddy still the best QB too?
OBJ : 498 targets , 313 receptions, 4424 yards, 38 TDs
Evans: 579 targets, 309 receptions, 4579 yards, 32 TDs.
Let's not pretend like there's a large gap between Eli Manning Vs Winston either.
Also, I don't think a Manziel and Tebow super fan has the right to slag someone about Teddy anymore.
I never heard one say Manziel or Tebow is the next all time great or best ever. Or the best QB prospect since Luck, or the next Montana/Manning. Maybe you have a short memory but some of the worst takes in draft talk history. Eli is getting up there but it has been a gap.
(04-10-2018, 03:23 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 03:13 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Eli's good day vs Winston's good day is a pretty sizeable gap favoring Eli, IMO.
They just both have plenty of bad days.
I think Beckham has played a huge role in keeping Eli afloat since 2014 production wise. Was v good in 2014+2015. Last two seasons Eli+ Winston have been very comparable.
I'd rather Eli in a vacuum but I don't think there is a big difference in how they help their WRs produce.
You dont think Evan's has had a huge part in keeping Winston afloat? Lol
(04-10-2018, 09:49 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 12:34 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]OBJ : 498 targets , 313 receptions, 4424 yards, 38 TDs
Evans: 579 targets, 309 receptions, 4579 yards, 32 TDs.
Let's not pretend like there's a large gap between Eli Manning Vs Winston either.
Also, I don't think a Manziel and Tebow super fan has the right to slag someone about Teddy anymore.
I never heard one say Manziel or Tebow is the next all time great or best ever. Or the best QB prospect since Luck, or the next Montana/Manning. Some of the worst takes in draft talk history. Eli is getting up there but it has been a gap.
(04-10-2018, 03:23 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]I think Beckham has played a huge role in keeping Eli afloat since 2014 production wise. Was v good in 2014+2015. Last two seasons Eli+ Winston have been very comparable.
I'd rather Eli in a vacuum but I don't think there is a big difference in how they help their WRs produce.
You dont think Evan's has had a huge part in keeping Winston afloat? Lol
Of course Evans has helped keep Winston afloat. Every WR1 does.
Just ODB has helped more and done it more efficiently too.
(04-10-2018, 09:56 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 09:49 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I never heard one say Manziel or Tebow is the next all time great or best ever. Or the best QB prospect since Luck, or the next Montana/Manning. Some of the worst takes in draft talk history. Eli is getting up there but it has been a gap.
You dont think Evan's has had a huge part in keeping Winston afloat? Lol
Of course Evans has helped keep Winston afloat. Every WR1 does.
Just ODB has helped more and done it more efficiently too.
Wheres the proof? Has he helped lead them to the playoffs? Does he have more yards? Targets? Has he played more games? What about the games he got ejected from? Really helped in those
(04-10-2018, 10:01 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 09:56 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Of course Evans has helped keep Winston afloat. Every WR1 does.
Just ODB has helped more and done it more efficiently too.
Wheres the proof? Has he helped lead them to the playoffs? Does he have more yards? Targets? Has he played more games? What about the games he got ejected from? Really helped in those
Why do you think WRs should lead their team to the playoffs? It's a team sport.
He's been more efficient per target. That's a fact.
He has 5 more TDs in 80 less targets. That's a fact
Apart from contested catches what does Evans do better than Odell? (And Odell is damn good at contested catches too)
(04-10-2018, 10:52 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 10:01 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Wheres the proof? Has he helped lead them to the playoffs? Does he have more yards? Targets? Has he played more games? What about the games he got ejected from? Really helped in those
Why do you think WRs should lead their team to the playoffs? It's a team sport.
He's been more efficient per target. That's a fact.
He has 5 more TDs in 80 less targets. That's a fact
Apart from contested catches what does Evans do better than Odell? (And Odell is damn good at contested catches too)
Where did I say WRs should lead their team to the playoffs by theirselves? I guess you miss "helped". The only th inng OBJ has better is the 5 more TDs with a 2 time SB winning QB. Looking at targets for execution is not very telling. One could be triple covered and still get a target, or a bad pass which winston throws a ton. Best ability is availability which Evan's has played in more games because he stays healthy and is almost a year younger. All facts. Oh, he has more yards as well, fact
(04-10-2018, 10:52 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 10:01 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Wheres the proof? Has he helped lead them to the playoffs? Does he have more yards? Targets? Has he played more games? What about the games he got ejected from? Really helped in those
Why do you think WRs should lead their team to the playoffs? It's a team sport.
He's been more efficient per target. That's a fact.
He has 5 more TDs in 80 less targets. That's a fact
Apart from contested catches what does Evans do better than Odell? (And Odell is damn good at contested catches too)
Evans is clearly not as good at documenting his drug use.
(04-11-2018, 06:54 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 10:52 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Why do you think WRs should lead their team to the playoffs? It's a team sport.
He's been more efficient per target. That's a fact.
He has 5 more TDs in 80 less targets. That's a fact
Apart from contested catches what does Evans do better than Odell? (And Odell is damn good at contested catches too)
Where did I say WRs should lead their team to the playoffs by theirselves? I guess you miss "helped". The only th inng OBJ has better is the 5 more TDs with a 2 time SB winning QB. Looking at targets for execution is not very telling. One could be triple covered and still get a target, or a bad pass which winston throws a ton. Best ability is availability which Evan's has played in more games because he stays healthy and is almost a year younger. All facts. Oh, he has more yards as well, fact
Sorry I don't subscribe to WR "wins". Did he help his team? Yes. The Bucs haven't made the playoffs with Evans. He must not be effective enough.
Per target efficiency is a very good way to look at how WRs perform. Not as good as the eye test for me but still valuable. "The best ability is availability" is commonly used in football debates when someone is arguing for a lesser player. That's the case here.
I see you skipped the last question, a common tactic of yours. I'll ask again, apart from contested catches (which Odell is very good at) what does Evans do better as a WR? Which technical aspects of the game does he do superior to Odell?
(04-11-2018, 07:02 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-10-2018, 10:52 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Why do you think WRs should lead their team to the playoffs? It's a team sport.
He's been more efficient per target. That's a fact.
He has 5 more TDs in 80 less targets. That's a fact
Apart from contested catches what does Evans do better than Odell? (And Odell is damn good at contested catches too)
Evans is clearly not as good at documenting his drug use.
Maybe some more hookers and coke would help Evans focus in games more. Or maybe not
(04-11-2018, 07:03 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2018, 06:54 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Where did I say WRs should lead their team to the playoffs by theirselves? I guess you miss "helped". The only th inng OBJ has better is the 5 more TDs with a 2 time SB winning QB. Looking at targets for execution is not very telling. One could be triple covered and still get a target, or a bad pass which winston throws a ton. Best ability is availability which Evan's has played in more games because he stays healthy and is almost a year younger. All facts. Oh, he has more yards as well, fact
Sorry I don't subscribe to WR "wins". Did he help his team? Yes. The Bucs haven't made the playoffs with Evans. He must not be effective enough.
Per target efficiency is a very good way to look at how WRs perform. Not as good as the eye test for me but still valuable. "The best ability is availability" is commonly used in football debates when someone is arguing for a lesser player. That's the case here.
I see you skipped the last question, a common tactic of yours. I'll ask again, apart from contested catches (which Odell is very good at) what does Evans do better as a WR? Which technical aspects of the game does he do superior to Odell?
(04-11-2018, 07:02 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Evans is clearly not as good at documenting his drug use.
Maybe some more hookers and coke would help Evans focus in games more. Or maybe not
Not skipping a question im just moving on. No matter who you try to "debate" with you always have to get the last word in, the debate would never end. " The best ability is availability" is commonly used in football debates when one is arguing for one that stays more healthy than the other, common sense really. I think Evans does every thing better than OBJ other than route running which I would give to Odell, I would give Odell the one handed catches as well.
(04-11-2018, 09:20 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-11-2018, 07:03 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry I don't subscribe to WR "wins". Did he help his team? Yes. The Bucs haven't made the playoffs with Evans. He must not be effective enough.
Per target efficiency is a very good way to look at how WRs perform. Not as good as the eye test for me but still valuable. "The best ability is availability" is commonly used in football debates when someone is arguing for a lesser player. That's the case here.
I see you skipped the last question, a common tactic of yours. I'll ask again, apart from contested catches (which Odell is very good at) what does Evans do better as a WR? Which technical aspects of the game does he do superior to Odell?
Maybe some more hookers and coke would help Evans focus in games more. Or maybe not
Not skipping a question im just moving on. No matter who you try to "debate" with you always have to get the last word in, the debate would never end. " The best ability is availability" is commonly used in football debates when one is arguing for one that stays more healthy than the other, common sense really. I think Evans does every thing better than OBJ other than route running which I would give to Odell, I would give Odell the one handed catches as well.
It's a pretty crucial part of the debate to skip. As well you know. Nobody is making you reply either.
We aren't discussing who has been the healthiest though. We are discussing who is the best. For instance , Linder misses his fair share of games, but if I were comparing his play to another center I would use their on the field play + traits to determine who is better.
Odell has better hands, better route runner, better at beating press, better running after the catch, better in the short and intermediate.
Evans is better on jump balls/contested catches, better in the red zone. Both are comparable deep.