(04-14-2018, 10:48 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2018, 06:52 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]I think if Blake can put together an entire season looking like he did in the first 3 games in December and against the Steelers and Pats in the playoffs, he'd have an argument to be considered the best QB in the division.
If Blake could put together an entire season like that, nevermind the division, he'd be the best QB in the NFL.
Yes, I think people need to get back to what's realistic. Essentially elimination the short meltdown periods would make him a franchise passer. Eliminate about three interceptions on the season, the one at the end of the Arizona game and the two at the end of the chargers game and the perception of him would be better. The Jaguars managed to claw out one of those two in spite of the interceptions, but both games should have been wins.
The rest of the season taken without those two abysmal end game performances wasn't really too bad.
(04-14-2018, 10:31 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]I've never been in admiration with turnover prone Luck. Watson, also turnover prone, didnt light my world on fire; and Mariotta has regressed a little. Blake has been under fire from day 1. He needs to be more consistent but if playing as inconsistent as he has, gets him to this point stat-wise, he's my number 1.
We literally handcuffed the passing game and people are talking about passing yards and TDs as comparisons moreso than just paying attention.
Huh?
How is 527 attempts on the season "handcuffing the passing game?"
(04-14-2018, 10:07 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2018, 09:51 AM)nate Wrote: [ -> ]I think people need to go look at Luck's post season stats compared to Bortles, then look at Luck's turnovers as well, throughout his career.
Also, career completion percentage:
Luck: 59.2
Bortles 59.1
I'd say Bortles is a better runner as well, but that's pretty close overall.
Again, I appreciate all the stat comparisons, but answer two simple questions for me if you will.
Does Blake Bortles throw the ball as well as a healthy Andrew Luck?
Does Blake Bortles make better decisions with the football than Andrew Luck?
Yes - It's all completely ridiculous and moot until Luck proves he's even capable of being half the passer he once was, but do people quoting these stats really think Blake is on a level playing field with a 2014 Luck?
I submit that in his upcoming fifth year Blake has a chance at getting closer to that than ever before, but he has not shown me the ability I saw from luck in 2014 yet. Maybe he will. I'd love that. It really could happen. But I'm not going to pretend that what Luck did that season wasn't better than we've seen from Bortles.
Bortles under Hackett has reduced the number of poor decisions significantly, largely because many of them have been taken out of his hands IMO. Perhaps if he'd had a consistent and capable OC in his early seasons he wouldn't have thrown so many drive ending incompletions and so many loss-sealing INTs. That's worth considering. But he DID do those things. And he did it way too much for me to sit here and compare his stats to Luck's without reminding folks about how painful that was to watch.
no
yes
blake throws the ball better then any other Left handed QB trying to throw Right handed
Another Question.
Both QBs are healthy. Do you think Blake takes those Colts teams to 11-5 records and an AFC championship game? Those Colts teams had no run game and no defense. Blake has both. If a healthy Luck is in this Jags team, they’re SB favorites.
Football fans just want to continue to push the narrative that bortles is bad. Mariota finished with more ints than TDs but no one ever mentions it
(04-14-2018, 11:59 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2018, 11:18 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Huh?
How is 527 attempts on the season "handcuffing the passing game?"
I'm sure he said that knowing the Jaguars led the league in rushing for much of the year, however, that helped the passing game.
Regardless of leading the league in rushing at any point, the Jags did not handcuff the pass.
They actually treated each opponent with an individual gameplan. Some leaned more to the run, some more to the pass. Sometimes the plan worked, sometimes it didn't.
Regardless of the Jags clear intent to run the ball last season, the pass only went through moments of being "handcuffed" for portions of a few individual games. (four games by my recollection)
This isn't the first post I've seen claiming some sort of handcuffing of Bortles or the passing game and I'm simply making an effort to point out the inaccuracy of that narrative.
(04-14-2018, 10:48 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2018, 06:52 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]I think if Blake can put together an entire season looking like he did in the first 3 games in December and against the Steelers and Pats in the playoffs, he'd have an argument to be considered the best QB in the division.
If Blake could put together an entire season like that, nevermind the division, he'd be the best QB in the NFL.
You have hit something right on the head here.
People think that those games he was just playing ok to good, when in fact it was as good as anyone else in the NFL.
Every pass Bortles throws that is incomplete is micro analyzed from arm angle to whether it was a perfect spiral.
Many other completed throws are micro analyzed as to whether the receiver had to wait a microsecond on the route.
An incomplete pass for other QB's? a number on the stat line.
Every completed pass? A reflection of that QB's mastery of being a QB.
Luck, Watson, and Maryota all have made plenty of bad decisions over the last few years, yet those are glossed over.
(04-14-2018, 01:48 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2018, 11:59 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sure he said that knowing the Jaguars led the league in rushing for much of the year, however, that helped the passing game.
Regardless of leading the league in rushing at any point, the Jags did not handcuff the pass.
They actually treated each opponent with an individual gameplan. Some leaned more to the run, some more to the pass. Sometimes the plan worked, sometimes it didn't.
Regardless of the Jags clear intent to run the ball last season, the pass only went through moments of being "handcuffed" for portions of a few individual games. (four games by my recollection)
This isn't the first post I've seen claiming some sort of handcuffing of Bortles or the passing game and I'm simply making an effort to point out the inaccuracy of that narrative.
I wonder if the same people who disregard all previous statistical stats for Bortles as "Garbage Time" also go on record for pointing out how many fewer opportunities he had because the team blew out so many opponents?
(04-14-2018, 01:27 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Another Question.
Both QBs are healthy. Do you think Blake takes those Colts teams to 11-5 records and an AFC championship game? Those Colts teams had no run game and no defense. Blake has both. If a healthy Luck is in this Jags team, they’re SB favorites.
They are Super Bowl contenders as it sits right now. I'm not sure Luck adds much to that. Luck had guys like Hilton and Wayne he was throwing to during that time, so acting like he had no weapons is incorrect. Not to mention Gore.
(04-14-2018, 01:48 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2018, 11:59 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sure he said that knowing the Jaguars led the league in rushing for much of the year, however, that helped the passing game.
Regardless of leading the league in rushing at any point, the Jags did not handcuff the pass.
They actually treated each opponent with an individual gameplan. Some leaned more to the run, some more to the pass. Sometimes the plan worked, sometimes it didn't.
Regardless of the Jags clear intent to run the ball last season, the pass only went through moments of being "handcuffed" for portions of a few individual games. (four games by my recollection)
This isn't the first post I've seen claiming some sort of handcuffing of Bortles or the passing game and I'm simply making an effort to point out the inaccuracy of that narrative.
I wonder if the same people who disregard all previous statistical stats for Bortles as "Garbage Time" also go on record for pointing out how many fewer opportunities he had because the team blew out so many opponents?
(04-14-2018, 10:48 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (04-12-2018, 06:52 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]I think if Blake can put together an entire season looking like he did in the first 3 games in December and against the Steelers and Pats in the playoffs, he'd have an argument to be considered the best QB in the division.
If Blake could put together an entire season like that, nevermind the division, he'd be the best QB in the NFL.
You have hit something right on the head here.
People think that those games he was just playing ok to good, when in fact it was as good as anyone else in the NFL.
Every pass Bortles throws that is incomplete is micro analyzed from arm angle to whether it was a perfect spiral.
Many other completed throws are micro analyzed as to whether the receiver had to wait a microsecond on the route.
An incomplete pass for other QB's? a number on the stat line.
Every completed pass? A reflection of that QB's mastery of being a QB.
Luck, Watson, and Maryota all have made plenty of bad decisions over the last few years, yet those are glossed over.
(04-14-2018, 10:58 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2018, 10:48 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]If Blake could put together an entire season like that, nevermind the division, he'd be the best QB in the NFL.
Yes, I think people need to get back to what's realistic. Essentially elimination the short meltdown periods would make him a franchise passer. Eliminate about three interceptions on the season, the one at the end of the Arizona game and the two at the end of the chargers game and the perception of him would be better. The Jaguars managed to claw out one of those two in spite of the interceptions, but both games should have been wins.
The rest of the season taken without those two abysmal end game performances wasn't really too bad.
I'd agree with this if he cut his turnovers down a bit more and just fine tunes his throwing ability he could still be the Guy but can or will he is the question.
Between bortles and mariota, since luck and watson are coming off injury, i have to go with mariota by a long shot. Bortles had a good year, and mariota had a bad year, but both of those seem to be anomalies. The standard is bortles is bad, mariota is pretty dang good. With competant coaching the sky is the limit. Hope bortles keeps improving now that he got his extension.
(04-14-2018, 11:04 PM)Nashville.Dave Wrote: [ -> ]Between bortles and mariota, since luck and watson are coming off injury, i have to go with mariota by a long shot. Bortles had a good year, and mariota had a bad year, but both of those seem to be anomalies. The standard is bortles is bad, mariota is pretty dang good. With competant coaching the sky is the limit. Hope bortles keeps improving now that he got his extension.
Bortles was playing for his football life. Mariota was having a down year with no talk of an uncertain future. The problem was coaching, 2018 will tell us all we need to know.
(04-14-2018, 06:11 PM)nate Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2018, 01:27 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Another Question.
Both QBs are healthy. Do you think Blake takes those Colts teams to 11-5 records and an AFC championship game? Those Colts teams had no run game and no defense. Blake has both. If a healthy Luck is in this Jags team, they’re SB favorites.
They are Super Bowl contenders as it sits right now. I'm not sure Luck adds much to that. Luck had guys like Hilton and Wayne he was throwing to during that time, so acting like he had no weapons is incorrect. Not to mention Gore.
No he has a point. With a healthy Luck this team has way better odds. Vegas has us at 20-1. Tied at 12th best. Only reason it isn't better is Bortles, and the only reason we are even up there is because of defense. Bortles wouldn't bring those Colts teams out of those holes the way Luck did. Let's take off the teal glasses and truly look at what we have. Currently, we have a window incredibly small because championship defenses last season to season. Luck is a franchise QB, no team in the league would pick a healthy Bortles over a healthy Luck... that's just being a homer.
(04-15-2018, 03:49 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2018, 06:11 PM)nate Wrote: [ -> ]They are Super Bowl contenders as it sits right now. I'm not sure Luck adds much to that. Luck had guys like Hilton and Wayne he was throwing to during that time, so acting like he had no weapons is incorrect. Not to mention Gore.
No he has a point. With a healthy Luck this team has way better odds. Vegas has us at 20-1. Tied at 12th best. Only reason it isn't better is Bortles, and the only reason we are even up there is because of defense. Bortles wouldn't bring those Colts teams out of those holes the way Luck did. Let's take off the teal glasses and truly look at what we have. Currently, we have a window incredibly small because championship defenses last season to season. Luck is a franchise QB, no team in the league would pick a healthy Bortles over a healthy Luck... that's just being a homer.
Your assessment of Blake is kind of harsh but I respect how you feel and all I asked is let's put everything into perspective. You're right no GM in the league would take a healthy Blake Bortles over a healthy Andrew Luck but let's be fair by saying Luck had more advantages to play the QB position than Blake Bortles before and during his NFL career.
For instance, Andrew Luck dad Oliver Luck played QB at the NFL level so imagine how Andrew Luck get to break down film at a young age in addition to the luxury and resources of going to these QB passing camps throughout his childhood where he can focus and horn in on his craft at quarterback. Blake on the other hand, was playing all types of other positions on the football field from his time at the Peewee level until his sophomore or junior year in high school when he finally settled in to Play the position of quarterback.
Andrew Luck from a college standpoint got to play at Stanford under Jim Harbaugh, who we all know is a QB Guru and is one of the best coaches not only from the college but NFL level as well. The reason why I mention this because we all know that from a development standpoint Andrew Luck had gotten the cheat sheet by learning under Jim Harbaugh and his staff how to develop as a quarterback. This is why from a prospect standpoint Andrew Luck has gotten the second highest grade in NFL history behind John Elway because of the resources he had to his disposal to help him find tune his game as a QB. Blake on the other hand, has gone to UCF to play for George O'Leary because other schools wanted him to play tight end instead of quarterback out of high school. In Blake's case, he had to play under a run first offense without a QB coach or offensive coordinator at UCF to help him develop his craft as a quarterback. In fact, the first time he had a QB coach was before the draft when Jordan Palmer, who was starting making his name at that time as a quarterback developer for NFL Prospects. This is why Blake Bortles was considered a project coming out of college instead of NFL ready like Derek Carr and Andrew Luck who both had the same circumstances to help them develop their game.
So bottom line is when they both came into the NFL Andrew Luck was so much prepared mechanically and mentally to play the position than Blake Bortles. This also explains the consistency from Andrew luck from a QB standpoint and the inconsistency from Blake based on the circumstances I explained between them and their individual development. It didn't help that during the first three years of his career Blake Bortles head gotten the worst case scenario of coaching from his incompetent coaching staff and it said him that because of it. It's a testament of Blake that despite of his circumstances previously he has still shown promise and ability to play quarterback at a high level. This is why he goes to California every year because he's basically playing catch-up compared to other NFL quarterbacks but this is also why I think Blake is far from a finished product despite what the naysayers and haters might think of him. We as a generation is in a microwave Society where we want everything to be finished right now instead of putting everything into perspective and allowing things to play out. So Andrew Luck is better than Blake Bortles if everything is equal right now but I truly believe Blake can be better than Andrew Luck long term if maroone and his staff can help Blake reach his full potential as a quarterback.
(04-14-2018, 11:04 PM)Nashville.Dave Wrote: [ -> ]Between bortles and mariota, since luck and watson are coming off injury, i have to go with mariota by a long shot. Bortles had a good year, and mariota had a bad year, but both of those seem to be anomalies. The standard is bortles is bad, mariota is pretty dang good. With competant coaching the sky is the limit. Hope bortles keeps improving now that he got his extension.
(04-14-2018, 11:04 PM)Nashville.Dave Wrote: [ -> ]Between bortles and mariota, since luck and watson are coming off injury, i have to go with mariota by a long shot. Bortles had a good year, and mariota had a bad year, but both of those seem to be anomalies. The standard is bortles is bad, mariota is pretty dang good. With competant coaching the sky is the limit. Hope bortles keeps improving now that he got his extension.
Bortles was playing for his football life. Mariota was having a down year with no talk of an uncertain future. The problem was coaching, 2018 will tell us all we need to know.
This post is filled with so much crap that it's hard to respond...so I won't.
(04-15-2018, 07:45 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2018, 11:04 PM)Nashville.Dave Wrote: [ -> ]Between bortles and mariota, since luck and watson are coming off injury, i have to go with mariota by a long shot. Bortles had a good year, and mariota had a bad year, but both of those seem to be anomalies. The standard is bortles is bad, mariota is pretty dang good. With competant coaching the sky is the limit. Hope bortles keeps improving now that he got his extension.
Bortles was playing for his football life. Mariota was having a down year with no talk of an uncertain future. The problem was coaching, 2018 will tell us all we need to know.
This post is filled with so much crap that it's hard to respond...so I won't.
I'm glad you feel that way because I think that poster is full of crap too. LOL
(04-15-2018, 07:45 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (04-14-2018, 11:04 PM)Nashville.Dave Wrote: [ -> ]Between bortles and mariota, since luck and watson are coming off injury, i have to go with mariota by a long shot. Bortles had a good year, and mariota had a bad year, but both of those seem to be anomalies. The standard is bortles is bad, mariota is pretty dang good. With competant coaching the sky is the limit. Hope bortles keeps improving now that he got his extension.
Bortles was playing for his football life. Mariota was having a down year with no talk of an uncertain future. The problem was coaching, 2018 will tell us all we need to know.
This post is filled with so much crap that it's hard to respond...so I won't.
That noise you heard was Mary Otter's twig leg popping again.
(04-15-2018, 03:53 AM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]Heres a fanpost about top 5 defenses being smaller windows then people think.
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2018/4/6/1...ir-windows
It's a sliding scale. Historical incident/precedent has no control over the Jags defense and its window to win.
Good drafting and wise cap management are the real deciding factors of how long the Jags window will last.
(04-15-2018, 08:48 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2018, 07:45 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]This post is filled with so much crap that it's hard to respond...so I won't.
That noise you heard was Mary Otter's twig leg popping again.
After excusing the INT he just threw, while ignoring the advantage he has with top 10 pick bookend tackles, a top 5 pick WR, a top 10 TE........