the word on Harrison is that he isn't fantastic in coverage. So if you develop a scheme where he is hanging out closer to the line, sounds like you'd maximize his skillset.
Considering how the league has become pass happy, if Harrison truly isnt that great in coverage, it doesnt seem like a lock that he'd eventually supplant Church. His skillset sounds great 25 years ago but not as much now. We'll see how he looks once he gets here.
(04-27-2018, 10:58 PM)Tuxedo Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2018, 10:45 PM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm surprised we haven't taken an OL by this point. Dunno about this one but I guess as Vic used to say, it's putting jars on the shelf.
It looks like the brass like Cann more than most people on here.
Exactly...
If I'm not mistaken, our OL was rankd in the top five last year. Why would we ponder on replacing the starters at the position? We'll need more depth but as we know, not within the first three rounds.
NH3...
Another steal. He'll be fun to watch when they throw him into the rotation this year.
Traditionally when we cut down to the 53 man roster, we keep 9 DBs. And typically you'd think that would be 3 or 4 safeties and 5 or 6 corners. In the offseason we signed both Carey and Davis as special teams specialists. Well with the Harrison pick, that would put us at 5 safeties. Church, Gipson, Harrison, Carey, and Davis. So would we then drop to only 4 corners? Ramsey, Bouye, and Hayden are obviously locks. I know we like Patmon. Myrick has potential. We are all talking about Meeks as a guy that could sneak on as an UDFA. Well I just named 6 guys there. I have to think we carry 5 corners at a minimum. So that puts us at 10 DBs which is one more than we usually go with.
Would we possibly let Carey and Davis fight for the 4th and final safety spot to get us to 9 DBs?
Would we go with 10 DBs (one more than usual) and couple that with one fewer LB? And possibly use Harrison, if needed, as a S/LB hybrid and keep him closer too the line where he excels?
(04-28-2018, 08:05 AM)HNH3 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2018, 10:58 PM)Tuxedo Wrote: [ -> ]It looks like the brass like Cann more than most people on here.
Exactly...
If I'm not mistaken, our OL was rankd in the top five last year. Why would we ponder on replacing the starters at the position? We'll need more depth but as we know, not within the first three rounds.
NH3...
Because Cann allowed too much penetration in the run game and Fournette's yards before initial contact stat was near the bottom of the league. That needs to improve and Cann was part of the problem
Harrison immediately becomes Church's backup an heir apparent. Everyone else including Carey in the backup mix will be scrapping for a roster spot. ST will be key.
Harrison will NOT be playing SAM, you can book that.
(04-29-2018, 06:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-28-2018, 08:05 AM)HNH3 Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly...
If I'm not mistaken, our OL was rankd in the top five last year. Why would we ponder on replacing the starters at the position? We'll need more depth but as we know, not within the first three rounds.
NH3...
Because Cann allowed too much penetration in the run game and Fournette's yards before initial contact stat was near the bottom of the league. That needs to improve and Cann was part of the problem
C'mon man we've talked about how good our oline was at run blocking many times this offseason. His 1.89 yards before contact according to PFF was tied for 2nd best in the league. Granted our up the middle YPC was the weakness, and Norwell alone will help that a lot. His NGS stat that he got .95 yards before a defender got within a yard of him was tied for first. Their YPC stat said we were 5th. The problem was some combination of LFs lack of lateral agility, anticipation, bad vision, and injury left him almost incapable of making someone miss. Hopefully the injury factor was the most important, we'll see.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/fa...re-contact
Brian Jester
@BrianJesterFF
Per NFL's #NextGenStats...
Fournette was 5th in the league in yards-before-contact (a credit to the OL/his vision), but 77th (!) in yards-after-contact
Steve Palazzolo
@PFF_Steve
He's running well today, but Jaguars RB Leonard Fournette has forced one missed tackle on his last 52 carries. (This was during the Steelers playoff game)
(04-29-2018, 07:03 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]Harrison immediately becomes Church's backup an heir apparent. Everyone else including Carey in the backup mix will be scrapping for a roster spot. ST will be key.
Harrison will NOT be playing SAM, you can book that.
Not SAM as we know it. A variation. It would be interesting for sub packages.
(04-29-2018, 08:23 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (04-29-2018, 06:55 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Because Cann allowed too much penetration in the run game and Fournette's yards before initial contact stat was near the bottom of the league. That needs to improve and Cann was part of the problem
C'mon man we've talked about how good our oline was at run blocking many times this offseason. His 1.89 yards before contact according to PFF was tied for 2nd best in the league. Granted our up the middle YPC was the weakness, and Norwell alone will help that a lot. His NGS stat that he got .95 yards before a defender got within a yard of him was tied for first. Their YPC stat said we were 5th. The problem was some combination of LFs lack of lateral agility, anticipation, bad vision, and injury left him almost incapable of making someone miss. Hopefully the injury factor was the most important, we'll see.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/fa...re-contact
Brian Jester
@BrianJesterFF
Per NFL's #NextGenStats...
Fournette was 5th in the league in yards-before-contact (a credit to the OL/his vision), but 77th (!) in yards-after-contact
Steve Palazzolo
@PFF_Steve
He's running well today, but Jaguars RB Leonard Fournette has forced one missed tackle on his last 52 carries. (This was during the Steelers playoff game)
You are all over the place here contradicting yourself. The number was bad in the middle - Cann was part of that and was more of an issue than Omameh - but Norwell is going to fix that by replacing Omameh?
Yeah - I don't see that.
I also don't need any of these stats to know I saw Cann getting worked over in the run game too often last season.
The Fournette stuff is what I've been saying since he started to be mocked to us. He has that hole in his game/skillset. Yet, the brass obviously wants to stick with him and doubled down with the Norwell signing. To me - that alone didn't solve the issue.
I still see RG as an issue, and either Cann needs to step up in a contract year or Richardson needs to beat him out for the start if they are going to dare teams to stop a power run attack with LF.
Hopefully they look at last season's tape and decide they can be more creative than that with their run game and the weakness at RG becomes less of an issue, but I'm not holding my breath.
On the other hand it's also very enticing to think of Fournette running with a completed line of quality run blockers. We know he'll hit some home runs. This is why I'm all in on upgrading RG. It will make Fournette more impactful, and continue to lighten Blake's load.
(04-30-2018, 02:40 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You are all over the place here contradicting yourself. The number was bad in the middle - Cann was part of that and was more of an issue than Omameh - but Norwell is going to fix that by replacing Omameh?
Nah I said it was OUR weakness, but it was still a little above average league wide. Adding Norwell alone would theoretically help it go from let's just say average to considerably above average. Regardless, trying to yet again lay the blame on our oline is disingenuous, and by now we should all know that.
I will definitely grant that our coaching did not put LF in the position to succeed very well. Putting 2 TE and/or a FB and all but begging teams to stack the box was not smart. Hopefully that changes. But still, the majority of the blame has to go on LF himself. He's a top 5 pick who got darn near the top of the league run blocking, he needs to be able to perform far better than he did no matter what.
I also just realized this was the Ronnie Harrison not Will Richardson thread lol. How did oline/LF come up in a safety thread? I'll let it go now and hopefully it'll steer itself back to defense.
(04-29-2018, 09:22 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (04-29-2018, 07:03 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]Harrison immediately becomes Church's backup an heir apparent. Everyone else including Carey in the backup mix will be scrapping for a roster spot. ST will be key.
Harrison will NOT be playing SAM, you can book that.
Not SAM as we know it. A variation. It would be interesting for sub packages.
I'll be curious to see how this plays out in terms of number of guys on the 53. Again, we typically keep 9 DBs. And with Church, Gipson, and Harrison essentially locks at safety, that doesnt leave many spaces for Cody Davis and Don Carey. Looking at their contracts you'd have to think Cody Davis has the clear advantage. He is guaranteed $2.5M this year while I think Carey had a very small signing bonus and is guaranteed basically nothing. If the battle for special teams comes down to a guy like Don Carey vs some 5th string LB, I wonder if they'd keep the extra safety. Which could force our hand into playing Harrison into that hybrid role.
(04-29-2018, 06:36 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Traditionally when we cut down to the 53 man roster, we keep 9 DBs. And typically you'd think that would be 3 or 4 safeties and 5 or 6 corners. In the offseason we signed both Carey and Davis as special teams specialists. Well with the Harrison pick, that would put us at 5 safeties. Church, Gipson, Harrison, Carey, and Davis. So would we then drop to only 4 corners? Ramsey, Bouye, and Hayden are obviously locks. I know we like Patmon. Myrick has potential. We are all talking about Meeks as a guy that could sneak on as an UDFA. Well I just named 6 guys there. I have to think we carry 5 corners at a minimum. So that puts us at 10 DBs which is one more than we usually go with.
Would we possibly let Carey and Davis fight for the 4th and final safety spot to get us to 9 DBs?
Would we go with 10 DBs (one more than usual) and couple that with one fewer LB? And possibly use Harrison, if needed, as a S/LB hybrid and keep him closer too the line where he excels?
Its going to come down to Special Teams prowess. Those who can perform more than one roll
WELL will get the nod over those who are one dimensional.
(04-29-2018, 07:03 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]Harrison immediately becomes Church's backup an heir apparent. Everyone else including Carey in the backup mix will be scrapping for a roster spot. ST will be key.
Harrison will NOT be playing SAM, you can book that.
I can see the Jags rolling out a 3 safety look for different match ups. Especially against a TE that you don't want matched up on a SAM backer on certain downs.
(04-27-2018, 11:00 PM)jagboss Wrote: [ -> ]Bama, which means he's well trained and polished
Nothing says well trained and polished like Reuben Foster ...
(04-30-2018, 03:02 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2018, 02:40 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]You are all over the place here contradicting yourself. The number was bad in the middle - Cann was part of that and was more of an issue than Omameh - but Norwell is going to fix that by replacing Omameh?
Nah I said it was OUR weakness, but it was still a little above average league wide. Adding Norwell alone would theoretically help it go from let's just say average to considerably above average. Regardless, trying to yet again lay the blame on our oline is disingenuous, and by now we should all know that.
I will definitely grant that our coaching did not put LF in the position to succeed very well. Putting 2 TE and/or a FB and all but begging teams to stack the box was not smart. Hopefully that changes. But still, the majority of the blame has to go on LF himself. He's a top 5 pick who got darn near the top of the league run blocking, he needs to be able to perform far better than he did no matter what.
I also just realized this was the Ronnie Harrison not Will Richardson thread lol. How did oline/LF come up in a safety thread? I'll let it go now and hopefully it'll steer itself back to defense.
Fair enough. I clearly had the initial stat wrong, but I still feel Cann was a weakness in the run game that should be addressed. We agree on the other factors that kept Fournette from being more effective.
Harrison is a prospect I am excited about. He seems like one of the best candidates from this particular draft class (outside the first round) to take over for Church in 2019 and clear a bit of cap.
I actually had him going to the cowboys 12 picks sooner in a mock I did with some dallas fans to replace what they lost in Church.