(07-27-2018, 09:57 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]This is all symbolism.
No one in the military is actually harmed by kneeling.
None of the victims of excessive force by police is actually helped by kneeling.
The announcer says, "please stand". If you don't stand, you are only "disrespecting" the announcer, if anyone at all. But even he said, "please." It wasn't an order.
We've let internet memes from Russia and Macedonia and craven politicians make us feel like we have to "stand up" for veterans or active duty by spewing hate at kneeling football players.
None of us would be hurt in any way if we stopped singing the national anthem at pro sporting events altogether. Save it for the international competitions.
This is typical of the left. Only take a few words, take them out of context then make their own interpretation.
The announcement more-or-less is "please stand and remove your hats to honor our National Anthem". The honor and pride in our country, our flag and what it means is not taught anymore. It's become "just a flag" and "just a song" for some to the point that it's "inconvenient". No reflection or regard as to what it is about.
It's pretty sad really.
Displaying our flag and singing our anthem should be a time of reflection about who/what we are and how great this country is. We should look to the past and reflect on how those before us gave us one of the greatest gifts of all... FREEDOM. Sometimes that gift came at the highest price. It's only like what, 60 seconds out of everyone's "precious" time?
It has absolutely nothing to do with somebody's "protest".
(07-29-2018, 01:55 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (07-27-2018, 09:57 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]This is all symbolism.
No one in the military is actually harmed by kneeling.
None of the victims of excessive force by police is actually helped by kneeling.
The announcer says, "please stand". If you don't stand, you are only "disrespecting" the announcer, if anyone at all. But even he said, "please." It wasn't an order.
We've let internet memes from Russia and Macedonia and craven politicians make us feel like we have to "stand up" for veterans or active duty by spewing hate at kneeling football players.
None of us would be hurt in any way if we stopped singing the national anthem at pro sporting events altogether. Save it for the international competitions.
This is typical of the left. Only take a few words, take them out of context then make their own interpretation.
The announcement more-or-less is "please stand and remove your hats to honor our National Anthem". The honor and pride in our country, our flag and what it means is not taught anymore. It's become "just a flag" and "just a song" for some to the point that it's "inconvenient". No reflection or regard as to what it is about.
It's pretty sad really.
Displaying our flag and singing our anthem should be a time of reflection about who/what we are and how great this country is. We should look to the past and reflect on how those before us gave us one of the greatest gifts of all... FREEDOM. Sometimes that gift came at the highest price. It's only like what, 60 seconds out of everyone's "precious" time?
It has absolutely nothing to do with somebody's "protest".
those are definitely the type of thoughts that I have when the anthem is played and the flag is raised.
I'm just wondering what it has to do with professional sports. A baseball season ticket holder will hear that kind of performance of the anthem and have those kinds of thoughts 81 times a year. Football season ticket holders get 10. People who don't really enjoy professional sports may only hear it performed publicly on July 4th.
(07-27-2018, 05:21 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (07-27-2018, 04:33 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]They certainly do. Every. Single. Thing.
It's poor symbolism, and the wrong point is made.
One of the biggest problem with the left... is a complete lack of self awareness. Whenever their opinion is heard and rejected, they falsely feel they aren't being heard and need to shout it louder and destroy everything in their path until those who disagree submit. They don't see that they lost the argument in the arena of ideas and debate. They just incite the mob until they get their desire, with decency, logic, and debate tossed out the window.
nobody is going to feel like you heard them unless you repeat their point back to them and explain why you disagree.
Just telling someone "no, you're wrong" looks the same whether you were listening carefully and put a lot of thought into the response or you weren't listening at all.
If you want people to feel like you heard them you should prove it
I agree with you except....it's all in the way a person or group presents themselves and responds to adversity (mainly when there is push back against their idea or belief). If the person/group presents themselves in such a way that is respectful, intelligent and knowledgeable, their position is considered and taken much more seriously than if there is gnashing of the teeth, hate and discontent, finger pointing, etc. And that goes for
any person or group. If you want to be taken seriously then you have to really consider the people you are trying to reach. The "shock and awe" and "you will listen to me whether you like it or not" approaches don't really do anything other than piss people off which causes division and so on.
Actual conversation is a lost art anymore and is what makes us a lot more aware of how others think and feel. Now it's just emojis, tweets, pictures (instagram), texting, etc., which all causes a great deal of problems all on their own.
A few months ago Jerry Jones got booed in his own stadium for kneeling with his players. Now Richard Sherman is comparing him to a plantation owner.
When you lose a debate, it's because the facts and reasoning weren't in your favor.
Not because the volume needs to be turned up on the voice, or that the other side's voice needs to be eliminated so the loser would then be declared winner by default.
(08-01-2018, 12:47 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]When you lose a debate, it's because the facts and reasoning weren't in your favor.
Not because the volume needs to be turned up on the voice, or that the other side's voice needs to be eliminated so the loser would then be declared winner by default.
SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dak Prescott cuts to the heart of the matter, rather succinctly.
You can tell he's on target, by the way he's been attacked for his stance.
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl...93955.html
The bottom line is that it's the wrong venue and as such, the net result is divisive and offensive.
The hypocrisy here by those who insist that the message isn't offensive is glaring. These are the same people that demanded statues removed because they were offended by a message the statues in and of themselves were *not* sending.
(08-02-2018, 05:05 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]Dak Prescott cuts to the heart of the matter, rather succinctly.
You can tell he's on target, by the way he's been attacked for his stance.
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl...93955.html
The bottom line is that it's the wrong venue and as such, the net result is divisive and offensive.
The hypocrisy here by those who insist that the message isn't offensive is glaring. These are the same people that demanded statues removed because they were offended by a message the statues in and of themselves were *not* sending.
The statues under discussion were taxpayer funded and maintained. An NFL team is not. If you are offended by what your NFL players are doing you can stop buying tickets and watching. If you are offended by what your government is doing, your only choices are ignore it or organize protests.
(08-02-2018, 07:09 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The statues under discussion were taxpayer funded and maintained. An NFL team is not. If you are offended by what your NFL players are doing you can stop buying tickets and watching. If you are offended by what your government is doing, your only choices are ignore it or organize protests.
What if a racist insist on removing the MLK Jr. statues? Is being offended the only requirement for removal?
(08-03-2018, 02:56 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2018, 07:09 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The statues under discussion were taxpayer funded and maintained. An NFL team is not. If you are offended by what your NFL players are doing you can stop buying tickets and watching. If you are offended by what your government is doing, your only choices are ignore it or organize protests.
What if a racist insist on removing the MLK Jr. statues? Is being offended the only requirement for removal?
The same rules would apply. Let him speak at City council meetings. Let him protest against the statue and see if anyone joins him. Ignoring it or protesting it would be the only two choices.
MLK Jr. stood for and helped acheive the end of voter discrimination, discrimination in private accommodations, and housing discrimination.
If the public decides that whatever negative thing MLK Jr might have done outweighs all of that good, then his statue should probably come down.
The problem with Confederate "heroes" is that all of the "good" they did was specifically done to extend the expiration date of slavery. States' rights? Yes, of course, the "right" of the state to designate some people as the "owners" of other people was the only right ever up for discussion though. If you want to build a statue celebrating that see if any other voters join you. Go ahead.
(08-03-2018, 03:06 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-03-2018, 02:56 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]What if a racist insist on removing the MLK Jr. statues? Is being offended the only requirement for removal?
The same rules would apply. Let him speak at City council meetings. Let him protest against the statue and see if anyone joins him. Ignoring it or protesting it would be the only two choices.
MLK Jr. stood for and helped acheive the end of voter discrimination, discrimination in private accommodations, and housing discrimination.
If the public decides that whatever negative thing MLK Jr might have done outweighs all of that good, then his statue should probably come down.
The problem with Confederate "heroes" is that all of the "good" they did was specifically done to extend the expiration date of slavery. States' rights? Yes, of course, the "right" of the state to designate some people as the "owners" of other people was the only right ever up for discussion though. If you want to build a statue celebrating that see if any other voters join you. Go ahead.
Ohgeeznotthisbleepagain.jpg
(08-03-2018, 03:06 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (08-03-2018, 02:56 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]What if a racist insist on removing the MLK Jr. statues? Is being offended the only requirement for removal?
The same rules would apply. Let him speak at City council meetings. Let him protest against the statue and see if anyone joins him. Ignoring it or protesting it would be the only two choices.
MLK Jr. stood for and helped acheive the end of voter discrimination, discrimination in private accommodations, and housing discrimination.
If the public decides that whatever negative thing MLK Jr might have done outweighs all of that good, then his statue should probably come down.
The problem with Confederate "heroes" is that all of the "good" they did was specifically done to extend the expiration date of slavery. States' rights? Yes, of course, the "right" of the state to designate some people as the "owners" of other people was the only right ever up for discussion though. If you want to build a statue celebrating that see if any other voters join you. Go ahead.
Do you have any idea why the concentration camps in Europe haven't been demolished?
(08-05-2018, 09:14 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-03-2018, 03:06 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The same rules would apply. Let him speak at City council meetings. Let him protest against the statue and see if anyone joins him. Ignoring it or protesting it would be the only two choices.
MLK Jr. stood for and helped acheive the end of voter discrimination, discrimination in private accommodations, and housing discrimination.
If the public decides that whatever negative thing MLK Jr might have done outweighs all of that good, then his statue should probably come down.
The problem with Confederate "heroes" is that all of the "good" they did was specifically done to extend the expiration date of slavery. States' rights? Yes, of course, the "right" of the state to designate some people as the "owners" of other people was the only right ever up for discussion though. If you want to build a statue celebrating that see if any other voters join you. Go ahead.
Do you have any idea why the concentration camps in Europe haven't been demolished?
Because the concentration camps are authentic structures from the historical event in question?
Almost of the Confederate statues were put up decades after the end of the civil war.
Also, many Nazi monuments were indeed knocked down all over Europe.