(08-10-2018, 02:34 PM)jagshype Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2018, 11:53 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The game last night left me with one main thought, which is that the Jaguars give up a lot of size on their starting defense due to having Telvin and Ngakoue in the lineup. It's probably why defending the run had been the team's Achilles heel and the titans have managed so well against us. They can't pass will anyway and their main advantages are a big back, big line, and a running QB.
I'm thinking the team might plan to get a bigger lineup on first downs and bring Ngakoue in on sub packages.
Correct me if i"m wrong, but I thought they used a modified rotation for that last titans game. I want to say Ankou was in the rotation more often than normal.
I think you would be right on the size issue. This defense is more built for the pass with Ngakoue and the lighter faster linebackers. The coaching staff is going to have to figure out a better rotation to keep the linebackers clean against titans
You may be right about that last titans game. Either way with the regular starting lineup there will need to be a very concerted concentration on stopping the run to get it done, I think the base defense will probably do great against teams like the colts and texans, though.
(08-10-2018, 03:50 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately I think last night was disastrous for my fellow FSU boy Greene. He needed to show he got over the muff of punts bug but managed to muff on what I think was his only attempt. He may be able to sell his body and make a career going over the middle but I think not being able to play ST really hurts his chances of making the final 53.
Plus Mickens seems to flash every time he gets a chance and that's one of Greene's main competitors right now. And in a pinch, Mickens made a couple of key catches last year at wide receiver. I sure hope he makes the team.
(08-11-2018, 10:47 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2018, 03:50 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately I think last night was disastrous for my fellow FSU boy Greene. He needed to show he got over the muff of punts bug but managed to muff on what I think was his only attempt. He may be able to sell his body and make a career going over the middle but I think not being able to play ST really hurts his chances of making the final 53.
Plus Mickens seems to flash every time he gets a chance and that's one of Greene's main competitors right now. And in a pinch, Mickens made a couple of key catches last year at wide receiver. I sure hope he makes the team.
Yeah, I've not been a fan of Greene since he criticised fans in the middle of another terrible season, he might find somewhere in the league to play, but it shouldn't be for the Jaguars. There's no way a guy like Mickens should be cut for him at this point in their careers.
Greene had some punt return success early on, but he's not there anymore. If Mickens goes then Greene should be out the door before him.
(08-10-2018, 11:51 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2018, 11:28 AM)Deacon Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, the rare specimen is worth reaching for you and I agree on that. And I'm betting that you and I agree that they are also exactly that; "rare". Julio Jones is a man amongst boys when it comes to the WR position but there are guys that can crank out 800 yard seasons available in every draft. So was Jones worth what it took to go get him? Mmmm, Maybe. but you can make the argument that you could have gotten an 'A' WR at half the cost of that 'A+' WR.
I think I'm finally realizing that what Vic was saying was that you could get "a guy" to do 75% of what Jones can do at about 50% of the cost. So isn't it smarter to do that?
Maybe... maybe not.
Yes, our WRs seem improved as a whole from last year to this one.
But it is still quite early, and ultimately we still don't know if any of them can take over the game or make the big play like the Julio Jones catch in the Super Bowl.
I am betting Atlanta doesn't regret the Jones trade for a second. I am betting Arizona doesn't regret the 3rd overall pick they spent on Fitzgerald. I am betting Vic's favorite team doesn't regret the first round picks spent on guys like Swann and Holmes who helped them win Super Bowls. I'm certain the 1990s Cowboys don't regret the high draft expenditures on Irvin, Harper, and Kevin Williams in winning those 3 Super Bowls in 4 years, nor the 49ers in trading up for a guy named Rice.
History is replete with talented teams that tried the dime a dozen approach to receivers and could never get over the hump because their guys outside couldn't make plays when needed. (See Marty era Browns and Chiefs; see also Mora era Saints).
Improvement of the Jaguars receivers from 1-5 and years away from Vic does not mitigate his folly on this issue. He was wrong then and he's wrong now.
I'm firmly with Vic on this one.
Sure, occasionally a receiver like Julio Jones comes along who is worth the high price Atlanta paid in draft picks. But for every Julio Jones, I'll see you a Reggie Williams and a Matt Jones.
Antonio Brown is arguably the best receiver in the NFL today. Remind me how high he was drafted?
The Jaguars history is 100% against your position. The two best WRs in Jags history, Smith and McCardell, came as cheap free agents. Allen Robinson was the best WR the Jags have had in recent years. He was a late 2nd round pick and much better than Lee who was drafted ahead of him. Even at that, undrafted rookie Keelan Cole outperformed Robinson's rookie year stats, as did undrafted rookie Allen Hurns in 2014.
If you want to go back into ancient history, on the Cowboys, Dolphins, Raiders, and Colts teams that preceded the Steelers Superbowl run, only Miami used a 1st round pick on a WR, and that was a trade for a proven veteran.
WR value and draft position is not a concern for Jags fans IMO.
Caldwell and his staff do such a remarkable job of identifying talent at the position, we seem to continually have a handful of cheaply obtained talent on the depth chart. Some of it placed highly on that chart.
This is just one more reason why overpaying Moncrief this season is not a big deal.
For those who watched it on tv or in the radio, was that Feed Taylor I heard calling the game with what's-his-name? I can't remember his name for the life of me. Prosser? I only got to watch a few minutes of it and it sounded like Freddy T.
(08-11-2018, 07:51 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]For those who watched it on tv or in the radio, was that Feed Taylor I heard calling the game with what's-his-name? I can't remember his name for the life of me. Prosser? I only got to watch a few minutes of it and it sounded like Freddy T.
Pretty sure it was Brian Sexton and Freddie
(08-11-2018, 07:59 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2018, 07:51 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]For those who watched it on tv or in the radio, was that Feed Taylor I heard calling the game with what's-his-name? I can't remember his name for the life of me. Prosser? I only got to watch a few minutes of it and it sounded like Freddy T.
Pretty sure it was Brian Sexton and Freddie
+1 it was.
Former play-by-play radio guy Brian Sexton. Fred basically just did nothing except say everyone was doing a good job.
(08-10-2018, 11:28 AM)Deacon Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2018, 09:41 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]
Well... I dunno if I'm all-in on the idea but I always tended to agree, especially when it comes to breaking the bank for one.
If you have a good QB that can get the ball there... all they have to do is catch it.
The only caveat is when you have those rare specimens that give you size, speed, catch radius, all in one.
Outside of that... don't use first rounders on em... And don't pay em 20 mil a year lol
Yes, the rare specimen is worth reaching for you and I agree on that. And I'm betting that you and I agree that they are also exactly that; "rare". Julio Jones is a man amongst boys when it comes to the WR position but there are guys that can crank out 800 yard seasons available in every draft. So was Jones worth what it took to go get him? Mmmm, Maybe. but you can make the argument that you could have gotten an 'A' WR at half the cost of that 'A+' WR.
I think I'm finally realizing that what Vic was saying was that you could get "a guy" to do 75% of what Jones can do at about 50% of the cost. So isn't it smarter to do that?
In the NFL you have to be better than the rest, so no it's not smarter to do that. Let the Cleveland Browns do the bargain hunting. We're striving for the best.
(08-12-2018, 11:19 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2018, 11:28 AM)Deacon Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, the rare specimen is worth reaching for you and I agree on that. And I'm betting that you and I agree that they are also exactly that; "rare". Julio Jones is a man amongst boys when it comes to the WR position but there are guys that can crank out 800 yard seasons available in every draft. So was Jones worth what it took to go get him? Mmmm, Maybe. but you can make the argument that you could have gotten an 'A' WR at half the cost of that 'A+' WR.
I think I'm finally realizing that what Vic was saying was that you could get "a guy" to do 75% of what Jones can do at about 50% of the cost. So isn't it smarter to do that?
In the NFL you have to be better than the rest, so no it's not smarter to do that. Let the Cleveland Browns do the bargain hunting. We're striving for the best.
The Jags WR corps IS a bargain hunted unit. They have very little money and zero long term commitment tied to the position. Think about what they will likely get from Westbrook, Cole and Chark in relation to the money being paid to those players.
(08-12-2018, 11:19 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2018, 11:28 AM)Deacon Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, the rare specimen is worth reaching for you and I agree on that. And I'm betting that you and I agree that they are also exactly that; "rare". Julio Jones is a man amongst boys when it comes to the WR position but there are guys that can crank out 800 yard seasons available in every draft. So was Jones worth what it took to go get him? Mmmm, Maybe. but you can make the argument that you could have gotten an 'A' WR at half the cost of that 'A+' WR.
I think I'm finally realizing that what Vic was saying was that you could get "a guy" to do 75% of what Jones can do at about 50% of the cost. So isn't it smarter to do that?
In the NFL you have to be better than the rest, so no it's not smarter to do that. Let the Cleveland Browns do the bargain hunting. We're striving for the best.
Sure, but it's hard to be the best when you're overpaying mediocre talent and can't afford to keep other great talents. It's not about refusing to have great players and only having good players, the point is not paying good players like they're great players, and if you can get similar performance for less money you should jettison the higher paid guy and keep the lower paid guy.
(08-11-2018, 07:59 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2018, 07:51 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]For those who watched it on tv or in the radio, was that Feed Taylor I heard calling the game with what's-his-name? I can't remember his name for the life of me. Prosser? I only got to watch a few minutes of it and it sounded like Freddy T.
Pretty sure it was Brian Sexton and Freddie
Yes! Brian Sexton. I couldn't remember his name for the life of me. Thank you.
I love the WR debates so I’d like to jump in.
For guys saying Antonio Brown is the best WR in the NFL today, it’s because of the QB.
Guys like Decker, Julius Thomas, Brandon Stokley, and all of Tom Brady’s receivers except for Moss. Those guys are just a product of their QB. There are outliers of course.
But if you put Antonio Brown with Blake Bortles then Brown becomes a 800 to 900 yard guy.
Julius Thomas went from 24 TDs in 2 seasons and came to Jax and scored like 7 or something. So you have to look at the totality of circumstance.
(08-12-2018, 03:43 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I love the WR debates so I’d like to jump in.
For guys saying Antonio Brown is the best WR in the NFL today, it’s because of the QB.
Guys like Decker, Julius Thomas, Brandon Stokley, and all of Tom Brady’s receivers except for Moss. Those guys are just a product of their QB. There are outliers of course.
But if you put Antonio Brown with Blake Bortles then Brown becomes a 800 to 900 yard guy.
Julius Thomas went from 24 TDs in 2 seasons and came to Jax and scored like 7 or something. So you have to look at the totality of circumstance.
Lol. You're so wrong. Antonio brown is a generational talent and will go down as one of the best ever. Some people are products of their qb. He is not one of them.
(08-12-2018, 07:31 AM)JaguarJosh05 Wrote: [ -> ]Former play-by-play radio guy Brian Sexton. Fred basically just did nothing except say everyone was doing a good job.
I was lowkey getting triggered every time Sexton said "times out" instead of "time outs"
(08-12-2018, 03:43 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I love the WR debates so I’d like to jump in.
For guys saying Antonio Brown is the best WR in the NFL today, it’s because of the QB.
Guys like Decker, Julius Thomas, Brandon Stokley, and all of Tom Brady’s receivers except for Moss. Those guys are just a product of their QB. There are outliers of course.
But if you put Antonio Brown with Blake Bortles then Brown becomes a 800 to 900 yard guy.
Julius Thomas went from 24 TDs in 2 seasons and came to Jax and scored like 7 or something. So you have to look at the totality of circumstance.
AB is a hall of famer. Best route runner in the game. Best wide outs in the game are AB, Julio, Hopkins, and OBJ.
(08-12-2018, 05:55 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-12-2018, 07:31 AM)JaguarJosh05 Wrote: [ -> ]Former play-by-play radio guy Brian Sexton. Fred basically just did nothing except say everyone was doing a good job.
I was lowkey getting triggered every time Sexton said "times out" instead of "time outs"
I heard that too. I was yelling, "it's TIME OUTS!"
(08-10-2018, 09:40 AM)Deacon Wrote: [ -> ]So here's a thought I had while reviewing highlights only of the game. Feel free to boo as you see fit:
"Maybe WRs really are a dime a dozen position...
Was Vic right all along...?
[HORRIFIED GASP]"
I think it is an easier position to platoon. The thing about the Jones, OBJ, Brown, Hopkins is they are the whole package in one. I think if you look at the wr corps the have to be able to move the chains, threaten deep, make contested catches, and get open. The biggest problem with the Allens is they didn't get open, it was always contested and to threaten deep they either needed a long setup double move or single coverage. The group we have now seems to all be capable of doing 3/4 of these things at any given time.
The difference is best when you have a qb who can go through their progressions. Blake didn't do that enough with the allens and would just throw something up with the hopes they would bail him out. I don't know if we will have a 1000 yard wr this year if everyone stays healthy but I am pretty certain we will have 5 with over 500 yards.