Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

It's about Blake. Based on the last two weeks we built it wrong.

If you asked me after the Patriots game I would have said... I have questions but it is possible they made some good calls.

Watching the Titans game my reaction is why can't we beat them?

The last 2 weeks with the injuries, it has been rough. Hindsight they blew it in multiple ways but it is always easier after the fact. Our history is not good. We have been a poor franchise more often than I like.

Building around a running back is absolute insanity, as was taking Fournette in the top 5. It managed to work out last year, but it's a decision that's going to haunt the team for years now.

If the Jaguars had the guts/ability to evaluate QBs and took Mahomes the team is probably at least 5-1 right now. As it is the team took a guy in the top 5 that will be off the team in a few more years, and the Chiefs got a guy that will lead them to superbowls for the next 15 years.

(10-14-2018, 07:17 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Building around a running back is absolute insanity, as was taking Fournette in the top 5. It managed to work out last year, but it's a decision that's going to haunt the team for years now.

If the Jaguars had the guts/ability to evaluate QBs and took Mahomes the team is probably at least 5-1 right now. As it is the team took a guy in the top 5 that will be off the team in a few more years, and the Chiefs got a guy that will lead them to superbowls for the next 15 years.

We could be better had we taken Mahomes, but he wouldn’t have the luxury of being coached by Andy Reid here. Instead, he’d get Nathanael Hackett.

Is Bill's Peterman Blake's doppelganger?

(10-14-2018, 07:20 PM)BigJohn98 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2018, 07:17 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Building around a running back is absolute insanity, as was taking Fournette in the top 5. It managed to work out last year, but it's a decision that's going to haunt the team for years now.

If the Jaguars had the guts/ability to evaluate QBs and took Mahomes the team is probably at least 5-1 right now. As it is the team took a guy in the top 5 that will be off the team in a few more years, and the Chiefs got a guy that will lead them to superbowls for the next 15 years.

We could be better had we taken Mahomes, but he wouldn’t have the luxury of being coached by Andy Reid here. Instead, he’d get Nathanael Hackett.

Yep, and no Kelce, Hill, Watkins, and a worse oline

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(10-14-2018, 07:17 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Building around a running back is absolute insanity, as was taking Fournette in the top 5. It managed to work out last year, but it's a decision that's going to haunt the team for years now.

If the Jaguars had the guts/ability to evaluate QBs and took Mahomes the team is probably at least 5-1 right now. As it is the team took a guy in the top 5 that will be off the team in a few more years, and the Chiefs got a guy that will lead them to superbowls for the next 15 years.

Mahomes would have no where close to the weapons he has there.  Nor would he have Reid

I wouldn't trust developing a QB with these coaches. I would want Marrone as far as possible from a brand new QB.

(10-14-2018, 07:24 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't trust developing a QB with these coaches. I would want Marrone as far as possible from a brand new QB.

It’s not fair to say this coaching staff can’t develop a QB. They were handed bortles who had fundamental flaws from the beginning

This team has been manhandled at every position and in coaching the last 2 weeks. The QB is a problem but there are problems all over the field. Did our vaunted defense didn't force KC or the pathetic Cowboys offense to punt once in the first half of either game?

(10-14-2018, 07:20 PM)BigJohn98 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2018, 07:17 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Building around a running back is absolute insanity, as was taking Fournette in the top 5. It managed to work out last year, but it's a decision that's going to haunt the team for years now.

If the Jaguars had the guts/ability to evaluate QBs and took Mahomes the team is probably at least 5-1 right now. As it is the team took a guy in the top 5 that will be off the team in a few more years, and the Chiefs got a guy that will lead them to superbowls for the next 15 years.

We could be better had we taken Mahomes, but he wouldn’t have the luxury of being coached by Andy Reid here. Instead, he’d get Nathanael Hackett.

You think Hackett is the problem? Hackett is limited to Bortles dude. He can’t call half his playbook most likely because Blake just can’t make certain throws. There’s a reason they basically just run crosser and run the ball. Blake is one of the most limited QBs in the entire league.

Mahomes opens up the entire playbook.

When was the last time our coaching staff pencil whipped another team? Probably TC back in the day. I didn't feel like we had great coaching last year. I just dont know with this team.

Too much talk and hype.

(10-14-2018, 07:33 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]When was the last time our coaching staff pencil whipped another team? Probably TC back in the day. I didn't feel like we had great coaching last year. I just dont know with this team.

Too much talk and hype.

They had the pats at 21 -3 at halftime a few weeks ago. Let's not get too carried away here. 

The coordinators have left much to be desired the past few weeks, but let's not pretend that's all they've ever done. And you absolutely have to point to poor play on offense by players  being a huge factor.

(10-14-2018, 07:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2018, 07:33 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]When was the last time our coaching staff pencil whipped another team? Probably TC back in the day. I didn't feel like we had great coaching last year. I just dont know with this team.

Too much talk and hype.

They had the pats at 21 -3 at halftime a few weeks ago. Let's not get too carried away here. 

The coordinators have left much to be desired the past few weeks, but let's not pretend that's all they've ever done. And you absolutely have to point to poor play on offense by players  being a huge factor.

Not trying to get carried away. Just feels like occasional success surrounded by futility.  The Tacks game was the in my craw game. Road games can be tough to win.

(10-14-2018, 06:01 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Going into this year the picture seemed clear. Our plan since we started the Caldwell build was to build defense through the draft/develop that talent and then sign key free agents to boost our strongest positions. We drafted heavy pass rushers, corners and linebackers. We signed key defensive players on the line and in the secondary. We built what was advertised as the next great generational defense. On offense the plan was to build a smash mouth ground game and have a QB that could manage the game. We didn't invest is keeping key offensive players when their contracts ran out, we could replace them with younger drafted role players. We signed established linemen and drafted heavy running backs high in the draft during the entire Caldwell build. 

Did we do it ALL wrong? Has history not proven that keeping a health cohesive defense is both expensive and near impossible.  Look at Seattle they lost some of their LEADERS and the entire defense unraveled. We lost Poz and Colvin and it's starting to look like this defense is unraveling. Was POZ that Leader that was irreplaceable? Would it matter if we had built this team around an offensive powerhouse? 

In todays NFL building around the defense and rushing game is building a team to compete in the wrong decade. It's not sustainable long term, it might not even be sustainable year to year. It's only week 6 and even if we can find our magic juice to finish the season I still wonder did we build this entire thing backwards? 

Having an offense that's just good enough isn't sustainable in todays NFL.

I think your whole premise is wrong

When Caldwell took over, his first draft was the horrible 2013 draft.  He drafted offense in the first round.

In 2014, his first round pick was a QB-Bortles.  His two second round picks were offense-WRs Marqise Lee and Allen Robinson.  His 3rd round pick was offense-Linder.

In 2015, his first pick was Fowler, a DE, but his second rounder was RB Yeldon.

His one defensive heavy draft was 2016 with Ramsey, Jack and Ngakoue.

He happened to hit the biggest with those players, but I don't his initial plan was to build as a defense first team.

Last year, they went offense with the 3 of the first four picks (Fournette, DedeWestbrook and Cam Robinson)

It worked out that way-being a defense first, run heavy team and thus far it worked pretty well.

The last two weeks have been ugly.  But it is due primarily to injuries.

(10-14-2018, 07:33 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2018, 07:20 PM)BigJohn98 Wrote: [ -> ]We could be better had we taken Mahomes, but he wouldn’t have the luxury of being coached by Andy Reid here. Instead, he’d get Nathanael Hackett.

You think Hackett is the problem? Hackett is limited to Bortles dude. He can’t call half his playbook most likely because Blake just can’t make certain throws. There’s a reason they basically just run crosser and run the ball. Blake is one of the most limited QBs in the entire league.

Mahomes opens up the entire playbook.

Agree with this.

(10-14-2018, 06:45 PM)jagforlife85 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2018, 06:01 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Going into this year the picture seemed clear. Our plan since we started the Caldwell build was to build defense through the draft/develop that talent and then sign key free agents to boost our strongest positions. We drafted heavy pass rushers, corners and linebackers. We signed key defensive players on the line and in the secondary. We built what was advertised as the next great generational defense. On offense the plan was to build a smash mouth ground game and have a QB that could manage the game. We didn't invest is keeping key offensive players when their contracts ran out, we could replace them with younger drafted role players. We signed established linemen and drafted heavy running backs high in the draft during the entire Caldwell build. 

Did we do it ALL wrong? Has history not proven that keeping a health cohesive defense is both expensive and near impossible.  Look at Seattle they lost some of their LEADERS and the entire defense unraveled. We lost Poz and Colvin and it's starting to look like this defense is unraveling. Was POZ that Leader that was irreplaceable? Would it matter if we had built this team around an offensive powerhouse? 

In todays NFL building around the defense and rushing game is building a team to compete in the wrong decade. It's not sustainable long term, it might not even be sustainable year to year. It's only week 6 and even if we can find our magic juice to finish the season I still wonder did we build this entire thing backwards? 

Having an offense that's just good enough isn't sustainable in todays NFL.

The answer to this question is unequivocally yes. Despite last years success, this organization has made a litany of bad decisions that will haunt them for a long time. Building a run based smash mouth offense, in an era where passing the ball is much easier, effective, and efficient, is just one of the mistakes they've made. The biggest mistake was hitching their wagons to Blake Bortles, a QB that needs everything to go right for him in order to play at an above average level, and is incapable of raising the level of play of the offensive players around him. That decision alone impacted the coaching hire, as I personally believe Doug Marrone was one of the only coaches they interviewed who threw support behind Blake Bortles. That decision is also the reason why this team feels it needs to play a run first, ball control offense, they know their QB has limitations and is incapable of carrying an offense. 

But more than anything, the decision to hitch their wagons to Blake Bortles had a definite impact on the 2017 draft, as they were never going to consider drafting a QB (Pat Mahomes/Deshaun Watson) with the 4th overall pick. Instead they opted to take a RB (to hide their QB) who has had injury issues dating all the way back to 2015. Whats ironic about the Fournette pick is the Jags had the good fortune in 2016 of the Cowboys passing on Jalen Ramsey for Zeke, only to make the same mistake themselves a year later. Hindsight is 20/20, but imagine if we had hired Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan and paired those young creative offensive minds with Patrick Mahomes. Imagine if had seriously made a run at Kirk Cousins, who continues to play productive despite playing behind one of the worst offensive lines in the league. This organization has made franchise changing decisions with a closed mind the past two seasons, and now its rearing its ugly head.

But we didn't build it, cause we drafted the wrong guy in Fournette. The guy has been okay when he was available, but his constant injured status is really messing with the team. Keeping Bortles was a mistake, should have got Cousins, but at this point last year is looking like a one-off overachievement. Our D is still good, but we aren't anywhere near the turnovers we had last year, and are getting killed now without them. It wasn't a sustainable model.

(10-14-2018, 07:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2018, 07:33 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]When was the last time our coaching staff pencil whipped another team? Probably TC back in the day. I didn't feel like we had great coaching last year. I just dont know with this team.

Too much talk and hype.

They had the pats at 21 -3 at halftime a few weeks ago. Let's not get too carried away here. 

The coordinators have left much to be desired the past few weeks, but let's not pretend that's all they've ever done. And you absolutely have to point to poor play on offense by players  being a huge factor.

Did Hackett throw the ball of Canns helmet last week? I forget.

It starts and ends with the QB and that goes for almost every team in the league.

Should have paid Cousins

(10-14-2018, 07:33 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2018, 07:20 PM)BigJohn98 Wrote: [ -> ]We could be better had we taken Mahomes, but he wouldn’t have the luxury of being coached by Andy Reid here. Instead, he’d get Nathanael Hackett.

You think Hackett is the problem? Hackett is limited to Bortles dude. He can’t call half his playbook most likely because Blake just can’t make certain throws. There’s a reason they basically just run crosser and run the ball. Blake is one of the most limited QBs in the entire league.

Mahomes opens up the entire playbook.

As limited as Bortles may be, having an OL that is in complete shambles sure limits the playbook as well. Isn't going to matter who your QB is when he's running for his life and being constantly hit in less than 2 seconds.

(10-14-2018, 07:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2018, 07:33 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]When was the last time our coaching staff pencil whipped another team? Probably TC back in the day. I didn't feel like we had great coaching last year. I just dont know with this team.

Too much talk and hype.

They had the pats at 21 -3 at halftime a few weeks ago. Let's not get too carried away here. 

The coordinators have left much to be desired the past few weeks, but let's not pretend that's all they've ever done. And you absolutely have to point to poor play on offense by players  being a huge factor.

Absolutely.

Given the way Mahomes has been playing, it's possible, even probable we'd have lost to them if we didn't have the slew of injuries.

But losing our top two LTs has had a tremendously negative impact on the whole team.

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(10-14-2018, 07:42 PM)BklynJag Wrote: [ -> ]Should have paid Cousins

Maybe...maybe not.

but behind the Robinson less offensive line, Cousins wouldn't have done much more these last two weeks.