Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(10-14-2018, 08:37 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2018, 07:59 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]So what is "the problem?"

At it's core our philosophy might be the problem. Defense wins championships has seen it's day, today its QB win championships and build sustained success. ::
 That's proving to be a very flawed philosophy.

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I'm not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing here,,, but if "Defense wins championships has seen it's day", that day must have been just yesterday. 

- 2013 Ravens won the Superbowl with stellar defensive team
- 2014 Seahawks LOB won Superbowl against a very stout Broncos defensive team
- 2015 Seahawks LOB reached Superbowl losing to the GOAT
- 2016 Broncos very stout defensive team won Superbowl with a "noodle-armed" Manning at QB,, they beat a very strong Panthers defensive team in that game
- yeah, then the GOAT played in 2 SB's in a row with some help from the refs at Gillette  (whatta ya gonna do)

But, think about last year:
Blake Bortles and Case Keenum were both 1 game away from playing in the Superbowl. Jax and Minny's defenses were both outstanding just last season propelling them to championship games. 
Freaking Blake Bortles and Case Keenum! Think about it that. 

Jags problems this year:
- O-line is a train wreck  (injuries and Norwell)
- Lee gone,, Hurns gone,, Grant gone,, LF injured again
- POZ gone (I think that matters more than alot of people think)
- Defense isn't getting pressure up front, and they're not getting the big time plays and scores like last season. 

Last year the defense was stellar in most games (not all, but most),, and it propelled them to an AFCS title, and a playoff win against the Bills practically on their own. 

Freaking Blake Bortles and Case Keenum nearly in the Superbowl. 
Not to mention Nick Foles actually winning the thing,, against get this: an awful Patriots defense. 


Idk if building for a defense has seen it's day. It still seems like the best defensive teams year in and year out either make it to the Superbowl or come very, very close.

(10-14-2018, 09:27 PM)jagherd Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2018, 08:37 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]At it's core our philosophy might be the problem. Defense wins championships has seen it's day, today its QB win championships and build sustained success. ::
 That's proving to be a very flawed philosophy.

---

I'm not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing here,,, but if "Defense wins championships has seen it's day", that day must have been just yesterday. 

- 2013 Ravens won the Superbowl with stellar defensive team
- 2014 Seahawks LOB won Superbowl against a very stout Broncos defensive team
- 2015 Seahawks LOB reached Superbowl losing to the GOAT
- 2016 Broncos very stout defensive team won Superbowl with a "noodle-armed" Manning at QB,, they beat a very strong Panthers defensive team in that game
- yeah, then the GOAT played in 2 SB's in a row with some help from the refs at Gillette  (whatta ya gonna do)

But, think about last year:
Blake Bortles and Case Keenum were both 1 game away from playing in the Superbowl. Jax and Minny's defenses were both outstanding just last season propelling them to championship games. 
Freaking Blake Bortles and Case Keenum! Think about it that. 

Jags problems this year:
- O-line is a train wreck  (injuries and Norwell)
- Lee gone,, Hurns gone,, Grant gone,, LF injured again
- POZ gone (I think that matters more than alot of people think)
- Defense isn't getting pressure up front, and they're not getting the big time plays and scores like last season. 

Last year the defense was stellar in most games (not all, but most),, and it propelled them to an AFCS title, and a playoff win against the Bills practically on their own. 

Freaking Blake Bortles and Case Keenum nearly in the Superbowl. 
Not to mention Nick Foles actually winning the thing,, against get this: an awful Patriots defense. 


Idk if building for a defense has seen it's day. It still seems like the best defensive teams year in and year out either make it to the Superbowl or come very, very close.

The Rams and Vikings are both returning very good defenses this year, but both teams also have quarterbacks than can lead their teams to wins even if they fall behind early. We don’t have that luxury. The only game I can remember Bortles coming back from a double digit deficit is his game against the Giants a few years ago. It doesn’t matter how good your defense is if you don’t have a QB that can every once in a while put the team on his back and lead them to a win. Bortles will never be that guy.

Defense is critical to getting to the Super Bowl and winning it but it takes a total team effort including offense and special teams. To me when Ramsey decided to be s no show until mandatory that spelled trouble for the team mentality. Cliche but still valuable: there is no i in TEAM.


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(10-14-2018, 10:07 PM)Shelley Thompson Wrote: [ -> ]Defense is critical to getting to the Super Bowl and winning it but it takes a total team effort including offense and special teams. To me when Ramsey decided to be s no show until mandatory that spelled trouble for the team mentality. Cliche but still valuable: there is no i in TEAM.


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BkIh1R5utY


Note:  I do not equate Jalen to Leon here...but I love this commercial.

Usual stuff. Roster and FO are heroes when we win and are horrible trash when we loose.

(10-14-2018, 08:04 PM)Trunt8728 Wrote: [ -> ]Blake simply cannot make that throw he made for the interception. It was one of the worst throws I have ever seen.

How do you throw a jump ball to a player that is 5 8 in triple coverage. I expect more out of a five year veteran.

Smdh

Rivers threw the same pass twice in a row today and his guy came up with it twice, for TD's.  Triple coverage. 

On the other hand, who the hell are our weapons on O?  I'm watching the chiefs make their share of mistakes, but they have Kelce, Hill, Hunt, Sammy Watkins, etc.  

Are they NOT going to score points there?  Not to mention they have a number one pick overall at LT.  We are playing with like a half deck, for a variety of reasons.......  11, 30, 88, 74, 72, all gone.  That hurts, and that is difficult to overcome.

We have to gut this out, get heathy, and get back to running the Offense they spent  the offseason building eventually, and hit stride, like we did last year.

Building around an elite defense is a good call..building around a RB was not.

We miss Poz a lot. He was the leader of our defense. Telvin and Myles are not ready for this role.

On offense people still blame the Cam injury...this forum was calling him a below average LT after the first two games of this season, and now he is Joe Thomas 2.0. Stop making excuses...

When your RB runs 5 ypc, you dont call for a play where your below average QB throw a backshoulder to your lazy new WR.

Coordinators are doing some stupid things too. 2 men rush to try to cover the end zone, result : Dak has all time to throw a TD.
The Niles Paul run was a terrible call from Hackett...the Mickens injury happens on a terrible trick play. Chark ends up 10 yards behind the catch of Mickens, while a simple faircatch would have give a better spot to the offense and avoided the injury of Mickens.

Run the ball, stop with the zone. Keep it simple. Our coaches are in over their heads right now.

The defense is not the issue. We are still doing very well on Defense (even after the chiefs game we were among the best teams defensively). The Problem is our offense cant stay on the field long enough, and that puts too much pressure on the defense. The NFL is a league that emphasizes offensive play and the rule changes and calls made by refs underline that. A good defense is very important but it cant cancel out a terrible offense, and it takes a lot more effort to play defense, which makes it even more important to have an offense that stays on the field.

Our Offense is terrible. And I cant even say its because we lack decent receivers. Yes, Lee (injury), Hurns Robinson are gone, but for our offensive gameplan, we dont need exceptional receivers. A go-to-guy would be nice, but Westbrook and Cole are doing okay. We have the speedsters.
Fournette and the Oline are problems due to injuries, and that happens. But I doubt Fournette would have won us the games against the Chiefs or the Cowboys though, and a good RB is not enough to carry an entire offense imho (Im part of the people that think a good RB is a plus, but its not the position you build your team around and you dont pick a RB early in the first round).
Bortles is a big issue. He will loose you more games that he wins, he cant throw the ball deep and his decisions are not always good. Our coaches have to gameplan an offense for him that basically eliminates 2 min offense and any riskier throws and still he has games where he has 5 Turnovers or where he cant get over 150 yards passing as a 5 year veteran. Maybe our defense will somehow help us go for a deep playoff run again (recharge after the Bye). But I think they are starting to get fed up as well, you see the body language. They are constantly on the field and get zero help from the offense, and Im sure that is gonna wear on their morale. They know their defense is special, but its not worth much if your O is so bad.
I think we will look back at this era and think "what could have been if we have had a decent-good QB". This is where the Jaguars messed up. We held on to Bortles for too long and now its too late to get rid of him and he will be with us until his contract is up. By then we will have probably lost some playmakers on defense, and we will start over. But thats in the future and I guess its easy to say these things after they happen. But its not like we didnt know what we were getting when we kept Bortles. We knew what limitations he would bring to our offense, and now that Fournette and some of the Oline are down, we are seeing the full wrath of what these limitations look like. Hard to say what we could do to get better at this point. We have to hope that Fournette gets healthy and explodes, especially in terms of yards per carry. Its a big IF.

The philosophy is fine, I just wish we would actually use it in our game planning.

(10-15-2018, 04:43 AM)MikePete54 Wrote: [ -> ]We miss Poz a lot. He was the leader of our defense. Telvin and Myles are not ready for this role.

On offense people still blame the Cam injury...this forum was calling him a below average LT after the first two games of this season, and now he is Joe Thomas 2.0. Stop making excuses...

When your RB runs 5 ypc, you dont call for a play where your below average QB throw a backshoulder to your lazy new WR.

Coordinators are doing some stupid things too. 2 men rush to try to cover the end zone, result : Dak has all time to throw a TD.
The Niles Paul run was a terrible call from Hackett...the Mickens injury happens on a terrible trick play. Chark ends up 10 yards behind the catch of Mickens, while  a simple faircatch would have give a better spot to the offense and avoided the injury of Mickens.

Run the ball, stop with the zone. Keep it simple. Our coaches are in over their heads right now.

Can't run the ball much when you are chasing the game like we have the last two weeks.

(10-14-2018, 09:35 PM)Eye of the Storm Wrote: [ -> ]The Rams and Vikings are both returning very good defenses this year, but both teams also have quarterbacks than can lead their teams to wins even if they fall behind early. We don’t have that luxury. The only game I can remember Bortles coming back from a double digit deficit is his game against the Giants a few years ago. It doesn’t matter how good your defense is if you don’t have a QB that can every once in a while put the team on his back and lead them to a win. Bortles will never be that guy.

^ completely agree. I'm not saying at all that you don't need a QB that can put a team on his back and win games at times. You absolutely do. But, the only teams I can think of that had a great QB and went to a Superbowl without a stellar defense are:
- Patriots of recent years (early 2000's Pats had a great defense)
- Colts with Peyton Manning (although the Colts defense played extremely well in their Superbowl run)

Brees hasn't been successful with a trash Saints defense. (The year they won the Superbowl, their defense was outstanding / "Bounty Gate").

Russell Wilson hasn't led the Seahawks to anything important after the LOB fell apart (they haven't even made the playoffs).  

Brees, Wilson, Rivers, Big Ben, Rodgers (been hurt alot), Stafford 
^ none of these guys succeed at championship levels without a very strong  defense

(10-14-2018, 11:23 PM)nate Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2018, 08:04 PM)Trunt8728 Wrote: [ -> ]Blake simply cannot make that throw he made for the interception. It was one of the worst throws I have ever seen.

How do you throw a jump ball to a player that is 5 8 in triple coverage. I expect more out of a five year veteran.

Smdh

Rivers threw the same pass twice in a row today and his guy came up with it twice, for TD's.  Triple coverage. 

On the other hand, who the hell are our weapons on O?  I'm watching the chiefs make their share of mistakes, but they have Kelce, Hill, Hunt, Sammy Watkins, etc.  

Are they NOT going to score points there?  Not to mention they have a number one pick overall at LT.  We are playing with like a half deck, for a variety of reasons.......  11, 30, 88, 74, 72, all gone.  That hurts, and that is difficult to overcome.

We have to gut this out, get heathy, and get back to running the Offense they spent  the offseason building eventually, and hit stride, like we did last year.

The funny thing about the Rivers throws to Tyrell Williams was that one of the knocks on TWill was his inability to make tough catches in traffic. Also, one of the knocks on Rivers by Charger fans is a tendency to force passes into heavy traffic. Sometimes plays work out and sometimes they don't.

To be have a franchise with a true Championship window of a few years without a top 5 QB, you must have an eye for a talent and/or player development for at least one major component of the team or at least be able to scheme it so limited players can still do well.

It is virtually impossible to invest good draft capital or free agent money in every position group in a 3-5 year time span so that they will all be average to pretty good and have depth at all positions in case of injuries. That way you can wait to draft those positions late, pick up other team's cast offs, or utilize UDFA for at least some of your players

Is there any position group that the Jags really do that in? I honestly cannot think of one.

Caldwell threw a broad net out there trying to acquire talent on both sides of the ball in FA and the draft utilizing a lot of resources. The net result was a lot of hits on defense and few hits on offense. This was no means by design. It was luck of the draw the way it worked out.

The FO has limited resources to spend as far as draft picks and FA money to acquire more talent, so the FO gets faced with the dilemma of using the resources to continue to throw a broad net trying to acquire diversified talent or use their resources to build the team around the talent they were already able to acquire.

The NFL is a win now type of institution. Teams have to take advantage of their strengths when the present themselves. They don't have the luxury of time to wait and try to develop the team in a different direction.

Building a run first offense is symbiotic with a stingy defense and is easier and quicker to build with the talent we already had. Drafting a guy like LF who can make an immediate impact makes sense considering the direction the team needed to go.

I know everyone is frustrated by the struggles this year, but it's hard for me to criticize the reasoning behind why the team was built the way it was.

I think it is evident one ingredient is glaringly missing from DC’s recipe for success.


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