Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Mysterious knee injury on Friday and IR on Saturday. Our LT situation at this point is extremely upsetting.

This is what the team gets for thinking it was all set on offense and investing on defense in RD1 and RD3. They [BLEEP] this draft up pretty badly so far.

I think when it's all said and done it's going to be one of the ugliest ones we've had. Reeks of 2008 when the offensive line got ravaged with injuries and they thought going all in and early on defense was the answer to their prayers after that 2007 play-off push.

Oh well. Injuries happen. But [BLEEP]. We've sure had enough of them around here.

(10-20-2018, 11:20 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is what the team gets for thinking it was all set on offense and investing on defense in RD1 and RD3. They [BLEEP] this draft up pretty badly so far.

I think when it's all said and done it's going to be one of the ugliest ones we've had. Reeks of 2008 when the offensive line got ravaged with injuries and they thought going all in and early on defense was the answer to their prayers after that 2007 play-off push.

Oh well. Injuries happen. But [BLEEP]. We've sure had enough of them around here.

True. 

I think everyone was thinking Oline this past draft. They ignored impact players. Seems like Richardson was never in the plans this year. This looks like one of those cases where a scratch causes the player to go on DL. Could be serious, but considering he never was in position for playing time.. who knows. Disappointing for sure.

(10-20-2018, 12:01 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 11:20 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is what the team gets for thinking it was all set on offense and investing on defense in RD1 and RD3. They [BLEEP] this draft up pretty badly so far.

I think when it's all said and done it's going to be one of the ugliest ones we've had. Reeks of 2008 when the offensive line got ravaged with injuries and they thought going all in and early on defense was the answer to their prayers after that 2007 play-off push.

Oh well. Injuries happen. But [BLEEP]. We've sure had enough of them around here.

True. 

I think everyone was thinking Oline this past draft. They ignored impact players. Seems like Richardson was never in the plans this year. This looks like one of those cases where a scratch causes the player to go on DL. Could be serious, but considering he never was in position for playing time.. who knows. Disappointing for sure.

He was active behind walker last week.

One needs to couple the draft and free agency when reviewing the offseason. The acquisition of Norwell should have been equivalent to a top 10 First Round draft selection. We spent a lot on the offence during free agency.

(10-20-2018, 12:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 12:01 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]True. 

I think everyone was thinking Oline this past draft. They ignored impact players. Seems like Richardson was never in the plans this year. This looks like one of those cases where a scratch causes the player to go on DL. Could be serious, but considering he never was in position for playing time.. who knows. Disappointing for sure.

He was active behind walker last week.

Did not play. Considering it's the 3rd LT, looks like an emergency activation rather than he earned it.

(10-20-2018, 12:53 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]One needs to couple the draft and free agency when reviewing the offseason.  The acquisition of Norwell should have been equivalent to a top 10 First Round draft selection.  We spent a lot on the offence during free agency.

And the Norwell signing has not worked out well for us at all.

(10-20-2018, 01:12 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 12:53 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]One needs to couple the draft and free agency when reviewing the offseason.  The acquisition of Norwell should have been equivalent to a top 10 First Round draft selection.  We spent a lot on the offence during free agency.

And the Norwell signing has not worked out well for us at all.

Well to be fair, he’s been playing hurt the majority of this year as well as coupled with the fact he’s been lining up next to a revolving door at LT.

(10-20-2018, 11:20 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is what the team gets for thinking it was all set on offense and investing on defense in RD1 and RD3. They [BLEEP] this draft up pretty badly so far.

I think when it's all said and done it's going to be one of the ugliest ones we've had. Reeks of 2008 when the offensive line got ravaged with injuries and they thought going all in and early on defense was the answer to their prayers after that 2007 play-off push.

Oh well. Injuries happen. But [BLEEP]. We've sure had enough of them around here.

Thinking like you propose here is exactly why the team is in the position it's in now. Years and years of "need" drafting instead of best player drafting.

Last year the Jaguars "needed" a running back, so they flushed a top five pick on one with significant injury problems coming out. (didn't "need" a QB, lol!) In 2015 they "needed" a defensive end, so they flushed a top five pick on a guy that had never shown he could play the position. Keep going back and you'll keep finding examples of trying to fill roster holes with draft picks. It didn't help then and it wouldn't have helped now. If Chark, Harrison, and Bryan turn out to be players then this years draft will have worked out, if not then at least it won't be because they thought they needed to fill a roster spot.

(10-20-2018, 02:04 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 11:20 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This is what the team gets for thinking it was all set on offense and investing on defense in RD1 and RD3. They [BLEEP] this draft up pretty badly so far.

I think when it's all said and done it's going to be one of the ugliest ones we've had. Reeks of 2008 when the offensive line got ravaged with injuries and they thought going all in and early on defense was the answer to their prayers after that 2007 play-off push.

Oh well. Injuries happen. But [BLEEP]. We've sure had enough of them around here.

Thinking like you propose here is exactly why the team is in the position it's in now. Years and years of "need" drafting instead of best player drafting.

Last year the Jaguars "needed" a running back, so they flushed a top five pick on one with significant injury problems coming out. (didn't "need" a QB, lol!) In 2015 they "needed" a defensive end, so they flushed a top five pick on a guy that had never shown he could play the position. Keep going back and you'll keep finding examples of trying to fill roster holes with draft picks. It didn't help then and it wouldn't have helped now. If Chark, Harrison, and Bryan turn out to be players then this years draft will have worked out, if not then at least it won't be because they thought they needed to fill a roster spot.

Hindsight is always 20/20. I think when you have an opportunity to fill a need that equates to the proper value of your draft slot you take him. That player should be taken above any and all others. I think every selection a team makes. Especially between the first four rounds. Those selections should be along the lines of thinking "Does he offer instant impact? Does he have a shot to see a significant amount of playing time right NOW on this team?". And if the answer to those questions is "No". Then what the [BLEEP] are you looking at? 

The problem with that idea is that not all teams have the same grading systems or philosophical views when running and building a franchise. And of course situations will change those sets of rules and circumstances. And I get all of that. 

However. When you're taking players in RD1, RD2 and RD3 they shouldn't feel like luxury picks. And that's exactly what it looks like. And that's why this team is in the position it's in now. 

Taven Bryan - No official starts. Appeared in what? 4, 5 games?. Has a whopping 8 tackles to show for it...
D.J Chark - No official starts. Appeared in 6 games. 4 whopping catches for 87 yards...
Ronnie Harrison - 3 official starts.  - 14 tackles on the year.... 

Doesn't appear we're getting much returns there. We had an elite defense last year. It hasn't really played that awful until the last two games where the offense has failed to get anything going. It's demoralizing. I don't give a [BLEEP] what Wash or Marrone says. That defense isn't going to go out there completely as a unit and lay their bodies on the line when they know this offense won't reward them for it. Business decisions are being made at that point. 

The window of opportunity started closing last year in New England. When they started playing conservatively on offense and showed that they didn't trust Bortles enough to win you that game in a duel against Brady. All of the faults on this team started on offense last year. 

You can't convince me that Taven Bryan will be a better PRO in the long run that offers more return on his selection in comparison to Sony Michel, Will Hernandez and potentially Nick Chubb. You could maybe argue that this team should have drafted Courtland Sutton in RD1 and went in a different direction in RD2. We'll see. I hope all of these guys return dividends sooner rather than later. But they were close last season to a Superbowl and there's a good chance they may not get that close again because they doubled down too early on their strongest unit on the team.

(10-20-2018, 02:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 02:04 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Thinking like you propose here is exactly why the team is in the position it's in now. Years and years of "need" drafting instead of best player drafting.

Last year the Jaguars "needed" a running back, so they flushed a top five pick on one with significant injury problems coming out. (didn't "need" a QB, lol!) In 2015 they "needed" a defensive end, so they flushed a top five pick on a guy that had never shown he could play the position. Keep going back and you'll keep finding examples of trying to fill roster holes with draft picks. It didn't help then and it wouldn't have helped now. If Chark, Harrison, and Bryan turn out to be players then this years draft will have worked out, if not then at least it won't be because they thought they needed to fill a roster spot.

Hindsight is always 20/20. I think when you have an opportunity to fill a need that equates to the proper value of your draft slot you take him. That player should be taken above any and all others. I think every selection a team makes. Especially between the first four rounds. Those selections should be along the lines of thinking "Does he offer instant impact? Does he have a shot to see a significant amount of playing time right NOW on this team?". And if the answer to those questions is "No". Then what the [BLEEP] are you looking at? 

The problem with that idea is that not all teams have the same grading systems or philosophical views when running and building a franchise. And of course situations will change those sets of rules and circumstances. And I get all of that. 

However. When you're taking players in RD1, RD2 and RD3 they shouldn't feel like luxury picks. And that's exactly what it looks like. And that's why this team is in the position it's in now. 

Taven Bryan - No official starts. Appeared in what? 4, 5 games?. Has a whopping 8 tackles to show for it...
D.J Chark - No official starts. Appeared in 6 games. 4 whopping catches for 87 yards...
Ronnie Harrison - 3 official starts.  - 14 tackles on the year.... 

Doesn't appear we're getting much returns there. We had an elite defense last year. It hasn't really played that awful until the last two games where the offense has failed to get anything going. It's demoralizing. I don't give a [BLEEP] what Wash or Marrone says. That defense isn't going to go out there completely as a unit and lay their bodies on the line when they know this offense won't reward them for it. Business decisions are being made at that point. 

The window of opportunity started closing last year in New England. When they started playing conservatively on offense and showed that they didn't trust Bortles enough to win you that game in a duel against Brady. All of the faults on this team started on offense last year. 

You can't convince me that Taven Bryan will be a better PRO in the long run that offers more return on his selection in comparison to Sony Michel, Will Hernandez, potentially Nick Chubb. You could maybe argue that this team should have drafted Courtland Sutton in RD1 and went in a different direction in RD2. We'll see. I hope all of these guys return dividends sooner rather than later. But they were close last season to a Superbowl and there's a good chance they may not get that close again because they doubled down too early on their strongest unit on the team.

We don't know yet if those guys will turn out to be great players worthy of selection or whether they'll end up as mistakes, but taking a lesser player to fill a spot is always a mistake.

Did KC need a QB last year? Do you think the fact that Mahomes did nothing of significance last year really matters?

How about the Packers in 2005? They had a future Hall of Fame QB that still had years of good football to play, did they get anything out of drafting Rodgers in 2005 and 2006?

Bad teams spend years doing what the Jaguars have done, trying to fill roster spots and hoping they get lucky and the guy they're taking to fill a spot turns out to be a difference maker. The great teams just go ahead and take the good players and trust that they'll keep talking good players to fill those other holes and it'll work out in the future just using some cheap free agents as temporary spackle where they have holes.

(10-20-2018, 02:46 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 02:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Hindsight is always 20/20. I think when you have an opportunity to fill a need that equates to the proper value of your draft slot you take him. That player should be taken above any and all others. I think every selection a team makes. Especially between the first four rounds. Those selections should be along the lines of thinking "Does he offer instant impact? Does he have a shot to see a significant amount of playing time right NOW on this team?". And if the answer to those questions is "No". Then what the [BLEEP] are you looking at? 

The problem with that idea is that not all teams have the same grading systems or philosophical views when running and building a franchise. And of course situations will change those sets of rules and circumstances. And I get all of that. 

However. When you're taking players in RD1, RD2 and RD3 they shouldn't feel like luxury picks. And that's exactly what it looks like. And that's why this team is in the position it's in now. 

Taven Bryan - No official starts. Appeared in what? 4, 5 games?. Has a whopping 8 tackles to show for it...
D.J Chark - No official starts. Appeared in 6 games. 4 whopping catches for 87 yards...
Ronnie Harrison - 3 official starts.  - 14 tackles on the year.... 

Doesn't appear we're getting much returns there. We had an elite defense last year. It hasn't really played that awful until the last two games where the offense has failed to get anything going. It's demoralizing. I don't give a [BLEEP] what Wash or Marrone says. That defense isn't going to go out there completely as a unit and lay their bodies on the line when they know this offense won't reward them for it. Business decisions are being made at that point. 

The window of opportunity started closing last year in New England. When they started playing conservatively on offense and showed that they didn't trust Bortles enough to win you that game in a duel against Brady. All of the faults on this team started on offense last year. 

You can't convince me that Taven Bryan will be a better PRO in the long run that offers more return on his selection in comparison to Sony Michel, Will Hernandez, potentially Nick Chubb. You could maybe argue that this team should have drafted Courtland Sutton in RD1 and went in a different direction in RD2. We'll see. I hope all of these guys return dividends sooner rather than later. But they were close last season to a Superbowl and there's a good chance they may not get that close again because they doubled down too early on their strongest unit on the team.

We don't know yet if those guys will turn out to be great players worthy of selection or whether they'll end up as mistakes, but taking a lesser player to fill a spot is always a mistake.

Did KC need a QB last year? Do you think the fact that Mahomes did nothing of significance last year really matters?

How about the Packers in 2005? They had a future Hall of Fame QB that still had years of good football to play, did they get anything out of drafting Rodgers in 2005 and 2006?

Bad teams spend years doing what the Jaguars have done, trying to fill roster spots and hoping they get lucky and the guy they're taking to fill a spot turns out to be a difference maker. The great teams just go ahead and take the good players and trust that they'll keep talking good players to fill those other holes and it'll work out in the future just using some cheap free agents as temporary spackle where they have holes.

I understand. Again, 20/20. My point is that when you're that close to a Championship. And it's crystal CLEAR that your defense is pretty much set up to keep your team going strong in 2018. Why would you jeopardize or risk [BLEEP] around with that window of opportunity? Again, why would you draft guys that are NOT going to be on the field that much as rookies? Why take those chances when you could have taken players on offense there to either. 

A. Shore up your protection
B. Add an actual skill player to your offense that can catch and/or run?

I don't believe Michel, Goedert, Hernandez, Jackson or Sutton are "lesser" players compared to Taven "Bambi" Bryan. Honestly, unless you're a Gators fan you probably didn't know who he was on draft day. So it's not a mistake IMHO. And, again, we're coming off of an AFCC run. The defense was your strongest overall unit. Your offense needed some work. So far they've invested in luxury picks which "could" yield long term benefits but by then will that window of opportunity still be there for them to win it all with this offense? Highly, highly [BLEEP] unlikely now. 

Kansas City DID need a QB last year. You know why? For the same reason Alex Smith got shipped out of the Bay Area to begin with. He's a really, really efficient and good regular season passer but he tends to stall out in the bigger games and bigger moments. That's why they drafted Mahomes. Probably didn't hurt that Alex would have been 34 on KC's roster this year AND he wanted a [BLEEP] ton of money. 

Mahomes was a luxury pick. The Chiefs can afford to [BLEEP] around like that and invest in luxury picks. They had entered the play-offs four out of the last five years there. This team isn't good enough consistently yet to have that way of thinking right now. Favre was 36 in 2005 that year when the Packers drafted Rodgers. 36. He threw a leauge leading 29 INT's that year with Rodgers on the bench breathing on his neck as a rookie. Seemed like the best decision at that time. 

And all you can come up with is two QB examples? The premier position in all of football? With guys over the hill at their points in their careers or at least nearing the end. Or where they could have announced their retirement at a moment's notice? 

Okay.

We could of used help in the draft for this year no doubt about it. They got caught up in the Watt measureables in Bryan. I haven't seen anything yet that tells me he is a football player yet. I mean that by awareness and instincts. Maybe he just needs time.

(10-20-2018, 03:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 02:46 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]We don't know yet if those guys will turn out to be great players worthy of selection or whether they'll end up as mistakes, but taking a lesser player to fill a spot is always a mistake.

Did KC need a QB last year? Do you think the fact that Mahomes did nothing of significance last year really matters?

How about the Packers in 2005? They had a future Hall of Fame QB that still had years of good football to play, did they get anything out of drafting Rodgers in 2005 and 2006?

Bad teams spend years doing what the Jaguars have done, trying to fill roster spots and hoping they get lucky and the guy they're taking to fill a spot turns out to be a difference maker. The great teams just go ahead and take the good players and trust that they'll keep talking good players to fill those other holes and it'll work out in the future just using some cheap free agents as temporary spackle where they have holes.

I understand. Again, 20/20. My point is that when you're that close to a Championship. And it's crystal CLEAR that your defense is pretty much set up to keep your team going strong in 2018. Why would you jeopardize or risk [BLEEP] around with that window of opportunity? Again, why would you draft guys that are NOT going to be on the field that much as rookies? Why take those chances when you could have taken players on offense there to either. 

A. Shore up your protection
B. Add an actual skill player to your offense that can catch and/or run?

I don't believe Michel, Goedert, Hernandez, Jackson or Sutton are "lesser" players compared to Taven "Bambi" Bryan. Honestly, unless you're a Gators fan you probably didn't know who he was on draft day. So it's not a mistake IMHO. And, again, we're coming off of an AFCC run. The defense was your strongest overall unit. Your offense needed some work. So far they've invested in luxury picks which "could" yield long term benefits but by then will that window of opportunity still be there for them to win it all with this offense? Highly, highly [BLEEP] unlikely now. 

Kansas City DID need a QB last year. You know why? For the same reason Alex Smith got shipped out of the Bay Area to begin with. He's a really, really efficient and good regular season passer but he tends to stall out in the bigger games and bigger moments. That's why they drafted Mahomes. Probably didn't hurt that Alex would have been 34 on KC's roster this year AND he wanted a [BLEEP] ton of money. 

Mahomes was a luxury pick. The Chiefs can afford to [BLEEP] around like that and invest in luxury picks. They had entered the play-offs four out of the last five years there. This team isn't good enough consistently yet to have that way of thinking right now. Favre was 36 in 2005 that year when the Packers drafted Rodgers. 36. He threw a leauge leading 29 INT's that year with Rodgers on the bench breathing on his neck as a rookie. Seemed like the best decision at that time. 

And all you can come up with is two QB examples? The premier position in all of football? With guys over the hill at their points in their careers or at least nearing the end. Or where they could have announced their retirement at a moment's notice? 

Okay.

The team execs were trying to do too much at one time. They were trying to "set the foundation" for a long term winning franchise a la the Steelers while maintaining a championship window. Without a QB or Coach in the HOF discussion, you really cannot do that. They should have gone all in for the title in the next 2 years, getting depth and players who could play now.

(10-20-2018, 03:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 02:46 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]We don't know yet if those guys will turn out to be great players worthy of selection or whether they'll end up as mistakes, but taking a lesser player to fill a spot is always a mistake.

Did KC need a QB last year? Do you think the fact that Mahomes did nothing of significance last year really matters?

How about the Packers in 2005? They had a future Hall of Fame QB that still had years of good football to play, did they get anything out of drafting Rodgers in 2005 and 2006?

Bad teams spend years doing what the Jaguars have done, trying to fill roster spots and hoping they get lucky and the guy they're taking to fill a spot turns out to be a difference maker. The great teams just go ahead and take the good players and trust that they'll keep talking good players to fill those other holes and it'll work out in the future just using some cheap free agents as temporary spackle where they have holes.

I understand. Again, 20/20. My point is that when you're that close to a Championship. And it's crystal CLEAR that your defense is pretty much set up to keep your team going strong in 2018. Why would you jeopardize or risk [BLEEP] around with that window of opportunity? Again, why would you draft guys that are NOT going to be on the field that much as rookies? Why take those chances when you could have taken players on offense there to either. 

A. Shore up your protection
B. Add an actual skill player to your offense that can catch and/or run?

I don't believe Michel, Goedert, Hernandez, Jackson or Sutton are "lesser" players compared to Taven "Bambi" Bryan. Honestly, unless you're a Gators fan you probably didn't know who he was on draft day. So it's not a mistake IMHO. And, again, we're coming off of an AFCC run. The defense was your strongest overall unit. Your offense needed some work. So far they've invested in luxury picks which "could" yield long term benefits but by then will that window of opportunity still be there for them to win it all with this offense? Highly, highly [BLEEP] unlikely now. 

Kansas City DID need a QB last year. You know why? For the same reason Alex Smith got shipped out of the Bay Area to begin with. He's a really, really efficient and good regular season passer but he tends to stall out in the bigger games and bigger moments. That's why they drafted Mahomes. Probably didn't hurt that Alex would have been 34 on KC's roster this year AND he wanted a [BLEEP] ton of money. 

Mahomes was a luxury pick. The Chiefs can afford to [BLEEP] around like that and invest in luxury picks. They had entered the play-offs four out of the last five years there. This team isn't good enough consistently yet to have that way of thinking right now. Favre was 36 in 2005 that year when the Packers drafted Rodgers. 36. He threw a leauge leading 29 INT's that year with Rodgers on the bench breathing on his neck as a rookie. Seemed like the best decision at that time. 

And all you can come up with is two QB examples? The premier position in all of football? With guys over the hill at their points in their careers or at least nearing the end. Or where they could have announced their retirement at a moment's notice? 

Okay.

Ah excuses. "It would be okay to do things wrong, because we're so close!" See Jaguars Circa 2008.

As for the rest, regarding only being able to come up with two QB examples, I'm not someone that follows all 32 teams' needs closely and examines all of their draft picks, but I do follow the Jaguars, and they've been making the same mistakes for as long as I've been paying attention. However, right off the top of my head the Giants of 10-15 years ago drafting defensive line even when they already had guys like Strahan. Worked out fine for them in 2007, didn't it?

The main point is no one could have seen the Jaguars having the kind of injuries they're having this year. Drafting one more guard early in the draft instead of Bryan or Chark wouldn't necessarily help with what's going on right now. The draft is about having a core of elite guys, not having a bunch of guys that were playing the right position. If Bryan turns out to be an elite player in a couple of more years he'll have been a great draft choice unless Lamar Jackson Suddenly starts being able to play (LOL, not happening).

(10-20-2018, 03:20 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 03:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I understand. Again, 20/20. My point is that when you're that close to a Championship. And it's crystal CLEAR that your defense is pretty much set up to keep your team going strong in 2018. Why would you jeopardize or risk [BLEEP] around with that window of opportunity? Again, why would you draft guys that are NOT going to be on the field that much as rookies? Why take those chances when you could have taken players on offense there to either. 

A. Shore up your protection
B. Add an actual skill player to your offense that can catch and/or run?

I don't believe Michel, Goedert, Hernandez, Jackson or Sutton are "lesser" players compared to Taven "Bambi" Bryan. Honestly, unless you're a Gators fan you probably didn't know who he was on draft day. So it's not a mistake IMHO. And, again, we're coming off of an AFCC run. The defense was your strongest overall unit. Your offense needed some work. So far they've invested in luxury picks which "could" yield long term benefits but by then will that window of opportunity still be there for them to win it all with this offense? Highly, highly [BLEEP] unlikely now. 

Kansas City DID need a QB last year. You know why? For the same reason Alex Smith got shipped out of the Bay Area to begin with. He's a really, really efficient and good regular season passer but he tends to stall out in the bigger games and bigger moments. That's why they drafted Mahomes. Probably didn't hurt that Alex would have been 34 on KC's roster this year AND he wanted a [BLEEP] ton of money. 

Mahomes was a luxury pick. The Chiefs can afford to [BLEEP] around like that and invest in luxury picks. They had entered the play-offs four out of the last five years there. This team isn't good enough consistently yet to have that way of thinking right now. Favre was 36 in 2005 that year when the Packers drafted Rodgers. 36. He threw a leauge leading 29 INT's that year with Rodgers on the bench breathing on his neck as a rookie. Seemed like the best decision at that time. 

And all you can come up with is two QB examples? The premier position in all of football? With guys over the hill at their points in their careers or at least nearing the end. Or where they could have announced their retirement at a moment's notice? 

Okay.

Ah excuses. "It would be okay to do things wrong, because we're so close!" See Jaguars Circa 2008.

As for the rest, regarding only being able to come up with two QB examples, I'm not someone that follows all 32 teams' needs closely and examines all of their draft picks, but I do follow the Jaguars, and they've been making the same mistakes for as long as I've been paying attention. However, right off the top of my head the Giants of 10-15 years ago drafting defensive line even when they already had guys like Strahan. Worked out fine for them in 2007, didn't it?

The main point is no one could have seen the Jaguars having the kind of injuries they're having this year. Drafting one more guard early in the draft instead of Bryan or Chark wouldn't necessarily help with what's going on right now. The draft is about having a core of elite guys, not having a bunch of guys that were playing the right position. If Bryan turns out to be an elite player in a couple of more years he'll have been a great draft choice unless Lamar Jackson Suddenly starts being able to play (LOL, not happening).

But the issue is not "they didn't get depth". They were in position to get some offensive position makers who were more NFL ready than Chark. 

The majority of the draft was forward looking to 2019 at best and more likely 2020. By then, the defense won't have that many elite-level talents, and quite possibly Blake may have run out of rope. It will be a totally different team and the window will probably have past.

(10-20-2018, 02:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 02:04 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Thinking like you propose here is exactly why the team is in the position it's in now. Years and years of "need" drafting instead of best player drafting.

Last year the Jaguars "needed" a running back, so they flushed a top five pick on one with significant injury problems coming out. (didn't "need" a QB, lol!) In 2015 they "needed" a defensive end, so they flushed a top five pick on a guy that had never shown he could play the position. Keep going back and you'll keep finding examples of trying to fill roster holes with draft picks. It didn't help then and it wouldn't have helped now. If Chark, Harrison, and Bryan turn out to be players then this years draft will have worked out, if not then at least it won't be because they thought they needed to fill a roster spot.

Hindsight is always 20/20. I think when you have an opportunity to fill a need that equates to the proper value of your draft slot you take him. That player should be taken above any and all others. I think every selection a team makes. Especially between the first four rounds. Those selections should be along the lines of thinking "Does he offer instant impact? Does he have a shot to see a significant amount of playing time right NOW on this team?". And if the answer to those questions is "No". Then what the [BLEEP] are you looking at? 

The problem with that idea is that not all teams have the same grading systems or philosophical views when running and building a franchise. And of course situations will change those sets of rules and circumstances. And I get all of that. 

However. When you're taking players in RD1, RD2 and RD3 they shouldn't feel like luxury picks. And that's exactly what it looks like. And that's why this team is in the position it's in now. 

Taven Bryan - No official starts. Appeared in what? 4, 5 games?. Has a whopping 8 tackles to show for it...
D.J Chark - No official starts. Appeared in 6 games. 4 whopping catches for 87 yards...
Ronnie Harrison - 3 official starts.  - 14 tackles on the year.... 

Doesn't appear we're getting much returns there. We had an elite defense last year. It hasn't really played that awful until the last two games where the offense has failed to get anything going. It's demoralizing. I don't give a [BLEEP] what Wash or Marrone says. That defense isn't going to go out there completely as a unit and lay their bodies on the line when they know this offense won't reward them for it. Business decisions are being made at that point. 

The window of opportunity started closing last year in New England. When they started playing conservatively on offense and showed that they didn't trust Bortles enough to win you that game in a duel against Brady. All of the faults on this team started on offense last year. 

You can't convince me that Taven Bryan will be a better PRO in the long run that offers more return on his selection in comparison to Sony Michel, Will Hernandez and potentially Nick Chubb. You could maybe argue that this team should have drafted Courtland Sutton in RD1 and went in a different direction in RD2. We'll see. I hope all of these guys return dividends sooner rather than later. But they were close last season to a Superbowl and there's a good chance they may not get that close again because they doubled down too early on their strongest unit on the team.

You have a good argument but then you name 2 RBs in in the 1st lol

(10-20-2018, 03:32 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 03:20 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Ah excuses. "It would be okay to do things wrong, because we're so close!" See Jaguars Circa 2008.

As for the rest, regarding only being able to come up with two QB examples, I'm not someone that follows all 32 teams' needs closely and examines all of their draft picks, but I do follow the Jaguars, and they've been making the same mistakes for as long as I've been paying attention. However, right off the top of my head the Giants of 10-15 years ago drafting defensive line even when they already had guys like Strahan. Worked out fine for them in 2007, didn't it?

The main point is no one could have seen the Jaguars having the kind of injuries they're having this year. Drafting one more guard early in the draft instead of Bryan or Chark wouldn't necessarily help with what's going on right now. The draft is about having a core of elite guys, not having a bunch of guys that were playing the right position. If Bryan turns out to be an elite player in a couple of more years he'll have been a great draft choice unless Lamar Jackson Suddenly starts being able to play (LOL, not happening).

But the issue is not "they didn't get depth". They were in position to get some offensive position makers who were more NFL ready than Chark. 

The majority of the draft was forward looking to 2019 at best and more likely 2020. By then, the defense won't have that many elite-level talents, and quite possibly Blake may have run out of rope. It will be a totally different team and the window will probably have past.

Like Vic used to say, "take care of the tomorrow, and tomorrow will end up taking care of today." Forget about the idea of only drafting guys that can have an impact RIGHT NOW. That kind of thinking is what has brought us years of losing.

(10-20-2018, 03:20 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2018, 03:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I understand. Again, 20/20. My point is that when you're that close to a Championship. And it's crystal CLEAR that your defense is pretty much set up to keep your team going strong in 2018. Why would you jeopardize or risk [BLEEP] around with that window of opportunity? Again, why would you draft guys that are NOT going to be on the field that much as rookies? Why take those chances when you could have taken players on offense there to either. 

A. Shore up your protection
B. Add an actual skill player to your offense that can catch and/or run?

I don't believe Michel, Goedert, Hernandez, Jackson or Sutton are "lesser" players compared to Taven "Bambi" Bryan. Honestly, unless you're a Gators fan you probably didn't know who he was on draft day. So it's not a mistake IMHO. And, again, we're coming off of an AFCC run. The defense was your strongest overall unit. Your offense needed some work. So far they've invested in luxury picks which "could" yield long term benefits but by then will that window of opportunity still be there for them to win it all with this offense? Highly, highly [BLEEP] unlikely now. 

Kansas City DID need a QB last year. You know why? For the same reason Alex Smith got shipped out of the Bay Area to begin with. He's a really, really efficient and good regular season passer but he tends to stall out in the bigger games and bigger moments. That's why they drafted Mahomes. Probably didn't hurt that Alex would have been 34 on KC's roster this year AND he wanted a [BLEEP] ton of money. 

Mahomes was a luxury pick. The Chiefs can afford to [BLEEP] around like that and invest in luxury picks. They had entered the play-offs four out of the last five years there. This team isn't good enough consistently yet to have that way of thinking right now. Favre was 36 in 2005 that year when the Packers drafted Rodgers. 36. He threw a leauge leading 29 INT's that year with Rodgers on the bench breathing on his neck as a rookie. Seemed like the best decision at that time. 

And all you can come up with is two QB examples? The premier position in all of football? With guys over the hill at their points in their careers or at least nearing the end. Or where they could have announced their retirement at a moment's notice? 

Okay.

Ah excuses. "It would be okay to do things wrong, because we're so close!" See Jaguars Circa 2008.

As for the rest, regarding only being able to come up with two QB examples, I'm not someone that follows all 32 teams' needs closely and examines all of their draft picks, but I do follow the Jaguars, and they've been making the same mistakes for as long as I've been paying attention. However, right off the top of my head the Giants of 10-15 years ago drafting defensive line even when they already had guys like Strahan. Worked out fine for them in 2007, didn't it?

The main point is no one could have seen the Jaguars having the kind of injuries they're having this year. Drafting one more guard early in the draft instead of Bryan or Chark wouldn't necessarily help with what's going on right now. The draft is about having a core of elite guys, not having a bunch of guys that were playing the right position. If Bryan turns out to be an elite player in a couple of more years he'll have been a great draft choice unless Lamar Jackson Suddenly starts being able to play (LOL, not happening).

Not excuses. Facts right now until this offense manages to dig it's head out of it's [BLEEP]. I don't follow all 32 teams either. It doesn't take a week to break down all of the above as I did. You threw names. I figured out years and statistics. Anybody can do that. 

I just feel that they had a good shot last year. They played it too conservatively and I just don't know if they'll be able to do that again. They're making the same mistakes though. That's why last year was the first time in ten years that they had played in a play-off game. 

Drafting an offensive lineman made a lot of sense actually. You were coming off a year where Linder had missed some time and has had an issue staying on the field. You had Omameh leaving in free agency. And Cann is just a guy as far as I am concerned. I think they could do better had they made better decisions. 

I can make the same exact argument about Fournette. Who has ALWAYS had a [BLEEP] laundry list of injury problems going back to his days at LSU. And now it's carried over significantly more into this NFL career. They have Yeldon in a contract year. And they had an opportunity to draft one of the best RB's from this class. 

They invested at positions that they were already set at. They invested in players who were more than likely not going to see nor get that very many snap counts this year. Again, instant impact or long term gratification? What situation is this franchise in right now? Again, we're not the Chiefs. We're not the Packers. The Patriots, etc. 

This franchise doesn't win consistently enough to consider any draft pick a luxury pick where you can afford to have a developmental player sitting in the hopper. The offense doesn't have any threats that scare a defense right now. Our defense going into 2018 had a player or two at every level that you have to account for and actually scare the [BLEEP] out of you. 

You say Oranges. I say Apples. Ultimately my point was that you don't get very many opportunities like we had last year. And when we ALL know that we have glaring issues and needs on offense. How can anybody really sit there and be that comfortable with what they've done with this year's draft class? You're lying to yourself. 

If this team was 4 - 2 or 6 - 0 right now. You wouldn't hear a peep out of me. But when your LG is failing. Your LT is out. Your QB is regressing. And you're down two RB's and two TE's? And none of the current players on this roster are good enough to get the ball rolling. Someone clearly miscalculated or [BLEEP] up in the scouting department and personnel department this off season.