Seems that everything just happen to fall in place last season. Marrone was ascribed too much credit. The true measuring stick was his inability to make meaningful changes this season to right the ship. The team is lost and players seemed to have divorced themselves from buying in anymore. He needs to go.
(12-08-2018, 03:28 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2018, 03:07 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]How does it operate like a 4-3 when most of the time we only have 2 LB's on the field? We definitely need a DC who can come up with some new schemes and coverages. As far as the blitzing, Mike Zimmer had the #1 defense in the NFL last year. They've fell off a bit this year, but they still rank #5 overall and they are in the playoff hunt. He must be onto something.
What? Every 4-3 has 2 Lbs on the field most of the time. That's just nickel man. It's still a 4-3. Our defense is a 4-3 even though most of the time we play with 5 DBs.
Zimmers defense is awesome, so is Pete Carrolls 4-3 and he rarely blitzs. Theres no definitive best defensive scheme
I don't know what you call it, but a 4-3 defense is different from a 4-2-5. The latter is a hybrid scheme. Yes, Zimmer's defense is awesome, but Seattle's defense is a shell of what it once was. They now rank #19 overall in the NFL. They started the hybrid 4-3 nonsense and it's not even working that well for them.
(12-08-2018, 08:29 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2018, 03:28 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]What? Every 4-3 has 2 Lbs on the field most of the time. That's just nickel man. It's still a 4-3. Our defense is a 4-3 even though most of the time we play with 5 DBs.
Zimmers defense is awesome, so is Pete Carrolls 4-3 and he rarely blitzs. Theres no definitive best defensive scheme
I don't know what you call it, but a 4-3 defense is different from a 4-2-5. The latter is a hybrid scheme. Yes, Zimmer's defense is awesome, but Seattle's defense is a shell of what it once was. They now rank #19 overall in the NFL. They started the hybrid 4-3 nonsense and it's not even working that well for them.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Every 4-3 team in the league right now is a 4-2-5 most of the time. They are still 4-3 defenses. Nickel is the formation every team plays the majority of the time.
Seattle lost Sherman, Kam, have been playing with Earl Thomas and are still 9th in points allowed. That's impressive. Also, I don't see how their 4-3 defense is nonsense, it was literally one of the best defenses the league has ever seen. We had it last year and were elite doing so. Just needs more input from a DC to mix up coverages and help remove obvious tendencies.
settle is also still in the playoff race as well
(12-08-2018, 08:42 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2018, 08:29 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know what you call it, but a 4-3 defense is different from a 4-2-5. The latter is a hybrid scheme. Yes, Zimmer's defense is awesome, but Seattle's defense is a shell of what it once was. They now rank #19 overall in the NFL. They started the hybrid 4-3 nonsense and it's not even working that well for them.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Every 4-3 team in the league right now is a 4-2-5 most of the time. They are still 4-3 defenses. Nickel is the formation every team plays the majority of the time.
Seattle lost Sherman, Kam, have been playing with Earl Thomas and are still 9th in points allowed. That's impressive. Also, I don't see how their 4-3 defense is nonsense, it was literally one of the best defenses the league has ever seen. We had it last year and were elite doing so. Just needs more input from a DC to mix up coverages and help remove obvious tendencies.
I know every team plays a version of 4-2-5, but most of the time? No way. That's mainly on passing downs. Playing against the Titans, a team with a horrible passing game, we should've rarely been in 4-2-5 formations. It should depend on the down and the opponent as to how much Nickel you play. You just can't blindly say, play 4-2-5 most of the time. If you're playing a team with a very limited passing attack, why are we in such a formation so much? You want to stop an opponents running game, play the defense closer to the line of scrimmage, not have them drop into coverage.
Seattle's defense used to be good, but as I said, they are ranked #19 overall now. That speaks for itself.
It doesn't depend on down/opponent, it depends on formation. If they're in 11 personnel (or less ofc), we're in nickel. And almost every team that isn't us plays 11 base. That's why Hayden plays like 3x more snaps than Jacobs.
Even if it's first down vs the Titans, if they have a 3rd WR on the field we aren't matching Leon Jacobs against a WR no matter what.
(12-09-2018, 12:43 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't depend on down/opponent, it depends on formation. If they're in 11 personnel (or less ofc), we're in nickel. And almost every team that isn't us plays 11 base. That's why Hayden plays like 3x more snaps than Jacobs.
Even if it's first down vs the Titans, if they have a 3rd WR on the field we aren't matching Leon Jacobs against a WR no matter what.
That's completely overthinking it. When we go 4-2-5 we are at a complete disadvantage against the run. That is largely what is killing the defense this year. Common sense dictates that if we play a team with a poor passing offense, we keep the defense closer to the line of scrimmage to stop the run. We would then play man to man in the secondary. We have the talent. Make a team like the Titans beat us through the air, where they are most vulnerable. It doesn't work all the time, but for God sakes, it's a better strategy than what we're doing now. We rank #26 in the NFL against the rush and that is largely due to the scheming.
(12-09-2018, 12:27 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2018, 08:42 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]I have no idea what you are talking about. Every 4-3 team in the league right now is a 4-2-5 most of the time. They are still 4-3 defenses. Nickel is the formation every team plays the majority of the time.
Seattle lost Sherman, Kam, have been playing with Earl Thomas and are still 9th in points allowed. That's impressive. Also, I don't see how their 4-3 defense is nonsense, it was literally one of the best defenses the league has ever seen. We had it last year and were elite doing so. Just needs more input from a DC to mix up coverages and help remove obvious tendencies.
I know every team plays a version of 4-2-5, but most of the time? No way. That's mainly on passing downs. Playing against the Titans, a team with a horrible passing game, we should've rarely been in 4-2-5 formations. It should depend on the down and the opponent as to how much Nickel you play. You just can't blindly say, play 4-2-5 most of the time. If you're playing a team with a very limited passing attack, why are we in such a formation so much? You want to stop an opponents running game, play the defense closer to the line of scrimmage, not have them drop into coverage.
Seattle's defense used to be good, but as I said, they are ranked #19 overall now. That speaks for itself.
What are you talking about?
Teams play with 3 corners the majority of the time because NFL offenses play with at least 3 receviers the majority of the time. You have to matchup.
The best run defenses in the league are in nickel the majority of the time. The best defenses are in nickel the majority of the time.
Seattle are 9th in points allowed per game
9th in turnovers per game
8th in red zone defense
9th in 3rd down defense
They've only allowed over 30 points in two games and both of them were the Rams. Forget the yards, they are a very tough defense to play this year despite missing tons of talent.
(12-09-2018, 03:02 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 12:43 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't depend on down/opponent, it depends on formation. If they're in 11 personnel (or less ofc), we're in nickel. And almost every team that isn't us plays 11 base. That's why Hayden plays like 3x more snaps than Jacobs.
Even if it's first down vs the Titans, if they have a 3rd WR on the field we aren't matching Leon Jacobs against a WR no matter what.
That's completely overthinking it. When we go 4-2-5 we are at a complete disadvantage against the run. That is largely what is killing the defense this year. Common sense dictates that if we play a team with a poor passing offense, we keep the defense closer to the line of scrimmage to stop the run. We would then play man to man in the secondary. We have the talent. Make a team like the Titans beat us through the air, where they are most vulnerable. It doesn't work all the time, but for God sakes, it's a better strategy than what we're doing now. We rank #26 in the NFL against the rush and that is largely due to the scheming.
This makes zero sense.
We are allow less yards than almost every team when we play in nickel in 2018. Was the same in 2017 too.
Last year the Browns played the season in base 66% of the time. By far the highest mark in the league.
The result? 5th in rushing defense, 26th in pass defense.
(12-08-2018, 08:29 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2018, 03:28 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]What? Every 4-3 has 2 Lbs on the field most of the time. That's just nickel man. It's still a 4-3. Our defense is a 4-3 even though most of the time we play with 5 DBs.
Zimmers defense is awesome, so is Pete Carrolls 4-3 and he rarely blitzs. Theres no definitive best defensive scheme
I don't know what you call it, but a 4-3 defense is different from a 4-2-5. The latter is a hybrid scheme. Yes, Zimmer's defense is awesome, but Seattle's defense is a shell of what it once was. They now rank #19 overall in the NFL. They started the hybrid 4-3 nonsense and it's not even working that well for them.
If you want to get technical, teams spend more time in nickel than they do in their base package these days. If wager that if you look solely at formations played and not base sets, you'd see that the 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 are the most common formations.
The reason the Seahawks' D has tanked is readily apparent in our play. It's been figured out.
(12-09-2018, 02:14 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2018, 08:29 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know what you call it, but a 4-3 defense is different from a 4-2-5. The latter is a hybrid scheme. Yes, Zimmer's defense is awesome, but Seattle's defense is a shell of what it once was. They now rank #19 overall in the NFL. They started the hybrid 4-3 nonsense and it's not even working that well for them.
If you want to get technical, teams spend more time in nickel than they do in their base package these days. If wager that if you look solely at formations played and not base sets, you'd see that the 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 are the most common formations.
The reason the Seahawks' D has tanked is readily apparent in our play. It's been figured out.
More so they lost 3 of their best secondary players. 2 of them HOF caliber.
(12-08-2018, 12:10 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-07-2018, 09:59 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]That moment when you realize that Marrone being promoted to HC means that Gus Bradley has a "tree".
Hey, man. You just gotta get out there and get better everyday. Trust the process!
![[Image: 55330-Charlie-Brown-Christmas-Tree.gif?1]](http://www.lovethispic.com/uploaded_images/55330-Charlie-Brown-Christmas-Tree.gif?1)
E.D. commercials have corrupted our innocence.
(12-09-2018, 01:33 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 12:27 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I know every team plays a version of 4-2-5, but most of the time? No way. That's mainly on passing downs. Playing against the Titans, a team with a horrible passing game, we should've rarely been in 4-2-5 formations. It should depend on the down and the opponent as to how much Nickel you play. You just can't blindly say, play 4-2-5 most of the time. If you're playing a team with a very limited passing attack, why are we in such a formation so much? You want to stop an opponents running game, play the defense closer to the line of scrimmage, not have them drop into coverage.
Seattle's defense used to be good, but as I said, they are ranked #19 overall now. That speaks for itself.
What are you talking about?
Teams play with 3 corners the majority of the time because NFL offenses play with at least 3 receviers the majority of the time. You have to matchup.
The best run defenses in the league are in nickel the majority of the time. The best defenses are in nickel the majority of the time.
Seattle are 9th in points allowed per game
9th in turnovers per game
8th in red zone defense
9th in 3rd down defense
They've only allowed over 30 points in two games and both of them were the Rams. Forget the yards, they are a very tough defense to play this year despite missing tons of talent.
(12-09-2018, 03:02 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]That's completely overthinking it. When we go 4-2-5 we are at a complete disadvantage against the run. That is largely what is killing the defense this year. Common sense dictates that if we play a team with a poor passing offense, we keep the defense closer to the line of scrimmage to stop the run. We would then play man to man in the secondary. We have the talent. Make a team like the Titans beat us through the air, where they are most vulnerable. It doesn't work all the time, but for God sakes, it's a better strategy than what we're doing now. We rank #26 in the NFL against the rush and that is largely due to the scheming.
This makes zero sense.
We are allow less yards than almost every team when we play in nickel in 2018. Was the same in 2017 too.
And we are almost dead last against the run, because we are in Nickel so much. I'm not saying totally ditch the Nickel formation, we need it for teams like the Colts who throw most of the time, but when we are playing run first teams, we don't need to be in Nickel formation so much. If they line up with 3 WR's, put a Safety on the 3rd receiver and keep three linebackers at the LOS, to defend against the run. This is not a hard concept to grasp.
We're not close to dead last in the league against the run. We're still above average in yards per carry. And the reason we're as bad as we are is solely because the defense quit against Henry. We were near the top of the league in rush defense before that.
(12-09-2018, 02:33 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 01:33 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]What are you talking about?
Teams play with 3 corners the majority of the time because NFL offenses play with at least 3 receviers the majority of the time. You have to matchup.
The best run defenses in the league are in nickel the majority of the time. The best defenses are in nickel the majority of the time.
Seattle are 9th in points allowed per game
9th in turnovers per game
8th in red zone defense
9th in 3rd down defense
They've only allowed over 30 points in two games and both of them were the Rams. Forget the yards, they are a very tough defense to play this year despite missing tons of talent.
This makes zero sense.
We are allow less yards than almost every team when we play in nickel in 2018. Was the same in 2017 too.
And we are almost dead last against the run, because we are in Nickel so much. I'm not saying totally ditch the Nickel formation, we need it for teams like the Colts who throw most of the time, but when we are playing run first teams, we don't need to be in Nickel formation so much. If they line up with 3 WR's, put a Safety on the 3rd receiver and keep three linebackers at the LOS, to defend against the run. This is not a hard concept to grasp.
"This is not a hard concept to grasp"
You're struggling big time here to understand why teams play 5 DBs in the modern NFL.
Dawg if you do that Vs 3 wide every time you're gonna get cooked. Thats potentially 4 vertical receivers with one safety covering over the top. Eventually that's gonna bust. There are certain formations where we do that, but nobody is gonna play that. Especially because teams would love to have a safety matchup on a WR unless it's one of the top tier matchup safeties.
Our defense allows the least amount of yards in the league when we play nickel over the last two years.
(12-09-2018, 02:29 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2018, 12:10 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Hey, man. You just gotta get out there and get better everyday. Trust the process!
E.D. commercials have corrupted our innocence.
(removed hilarious comment that was a sure-fire ban)
(12-09-2018, 02:29 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2018, 12:10 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Hey, man. You just gotta get out there and get better everyday. Trust the process!
E.D. commercials have corrupted our innocence.
If it was only that easy.
(12-09-2018, 02:52 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]We're not close to dead last in the league against the run. We're still above average in yards per carry. And the reason we're as bad as we are is solely because the defense quit against Henry. We were near the top of the league in rush defense before that.
We rank #26 out of 32 teams in rushing defense. Look it up. I don't care what we were before, this is the situation now.
(12-09-2018, 07:36 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 02:52 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]We're not close to dead last in the league against the run. We're still above average in yards per carry. And the reason we're as bad as we are is solely because the defense quit against Henry. We were near the top of the league in rush defense before that.
We rank #26 out of 32 teams in rushing defense. Look it up. I don't care what we were before, this is the situation now.
The vikings had the 2nd best run defense in the league last year and played with 5 DBs 77% of the time. 2nd highest rate in the league.
The Eagles were number 1 and played with 5 DBs 70% of the time..
(12-09-2018, 07:51 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 07:36 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]We rank #26 out of 32 teams in rushing defense. Look it up. I don't care what we were before, this is the situation now.
The vikings had the 2nd best run defense in the league last year and played with 5 DBs 77% of the time. 2nd highest rate in the league.
The Eagles were number 1 and played with 5 DBs 70% of the time..
Guess what? We're not the Vikings or Eagles. We're the Jags. It's not working for us this year.