For once, the President did not listen to the perpetual warmongers.
Turkish leader Erdogan asked Trump, "If ISIS has been defeated - and the US's primary objective for its incursion into Syria accomplished, then what were US troops still doing camped out on his border?" Presidential advisors John Bolton, Gen. Mattis, Mike Pompeo, US special envoy for Syria Jim Jeffrey and special envoy for the anti-IS coalition Brett McGurk all agreed that ISIS was defeated but tried to argue that the victory had to be "enduring". Trump did not take the bait.
Erdogan is eager to handle Turkey's Kurdish problem, but the US military is in the way. By withdrawing, Trump may be exposing the Kurds to wholesale slaughter. Or maybe not, since 12% to 25% of Turks identify as Kurds. Bottom line, that is a regional problem, one which may or may not be solved with armies, and certainly not grounds for another "forever" war involving US troops.
It appears that President Trump is also questioning the wisdom of our continued presence in Afghanistan.
If this kind of diplomacy is allowed, Trump might do the unthinkable and pull our troops out of World War II and the Korean conflict.
Happy Xmas
So we call retreat "regional conflict" now? Donald will have a lot of blood on his hands when the Kurds get slaughtered. The Kurds - the people who fought ISIS for us. Practically the only ones who would. Very few US troops did. But what are hundreds of dead Kurds to Donald - he has an election to win.
Try actually reading Gen. Mattis' resignation letter. A very elegant middle finger to Donald Trump. But hey, he's only a general and a scholar. What does he know.
Good to know that our Syrian policy is decided by a Turkish dictator. Gives Donald more time to play golf and tweet.
Call me old-fashioned, but I think that if you get your military involved in a conflict, you are not allowed to leave until a peace treaty is signed, explaining which people will be in charge of the conflict area after you leave, and everybody who took up arms during the conflict has to sign it, both winners and losers.
I read the headline, and I thought you were talking about the War on Christmas.
Is that one still going on? Maybe Trump needs to pull us out of that one, too.
Hows about a nice bowl of MISSION CREEP? I remember when it was absolutely critical that we got those WMDs out of Iraq. Now we can't abandon our buddies the Kurds or they'll get slaughtered by our buddies the Turks. Our presence has certainly made a difference - none of it positive.
(12-22-2018, 02:52 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Call me old-fashioned, but I think that if you get your military involved in a conflict, you are not allowed to leave until a peace treaty is signed, explaining which people will be in charge of the conflict area after you leave, and everybody who took up arms during the conflict has to sign it, both winners and losers.
Should the Easter bunny preside?
(12-22-2018, 07:39 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2018, 02:52 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Call me old-fashioned, but I think that if you get your military involved in a conflict, you are not allowed to leave until a peace treaty is signed, explaining which people will be in charge of the conflict area after you leave, and everybody who took up arms during the conflict has to sign it, both winners and losers.
Should the Easter bunny preside?
Laugh all you want. Name a war that didn't end with a treaty. How'd that work out?
(12-22-2018, 08:59 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2018, 07:39 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Should the Easter bunny preside?
Laugh all you want. Name a war that didn't end with a treaty. How'd that work out?
Welp...
Congress has formally declared war 5 times and yes, each of those have ended in treaties.
However, Syria is not a formal war, nor was Iraq, where the war was declared ended in 2011, with no treaties signed.
And if we're speaking on conflicts the US have been involved not declared by Congress in that did not end in treaties, there are numerous instances where we invaded and eventually withdrew forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratio...ted_States
(12-27-2018, 01:27 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2018, 08:59 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Laugh all you want. Name a war that didn't end with a treaty. How'd that work out?
Welp...
Congress has formally declared war 5 times and yes, each of those have ended in treaties.
However, Syria is not a formal war, nor was Iraq, where the war was declared ended in 2011, with no treaties signed.
And if we're speaking on conflicts the US have been involved not declared by Congress in that did not end in treaties, there are numerous instances where we invaded and eventually withdrew forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratio...ted_States
We had a status of forces agreement with the government of Iraq signed in 2008. That agreement explicitly recognized our right to keep our military in Iraq up to December 31st 2011, and Iraq's right to maintain military forces in the entire area indefinitely. It recognized the sovereignty of iraqs central government. We have made no such accommodations to the government of Syria nor to the Kurdish rebels that we have been working with.
(12-27-2018, 01:42 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2018, 01:27 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Welp...
Congress has formally declared war 5 times and yes, each of those have ended in treaties.
However, Syria is not a formal war, nor was Iraq, where the war was declared ended in 2011, with no treaties signed.
And if we're speaking on conflicts the US have been involved not declared by Congress in that did not end in treaties, there are numerous instances where we invaded and eventually withdrew forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratio...ted_States
We had a status of forces agreement with the government of Iraq signed in 2008. That agreement explicitly recognized our right to keep our military in Iraq up to December 31st 2011, and Iraq's right to maintain military forces in the entire area indefinitely. It recognized the sovereignty of iraqs central government. We have made no such accommodations to the government of Syria nor to the Kurdish rebels that we have been working with.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.
(12-27-2018, 01:27 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (12-22-2018, 08:59 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Laugh all you want. Name a war that didn't end with a treaty. How'd that work out?
Welp...
Congress has formally declared war 5 times and yes, each of those have ended in treaties.
However, Syria is not a formal war, nor was Iraq, where the war was declared ended in 2011, with no treaties signed.
And if we're speaking on conflicts the US have been involved not declared by Congress in that did not end in treaties, there are numerous instances where we invaded and eventually withdrew forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratio...ted_States
Game. Set. Match.
(12-28-2018, 01:21 AM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2018, 01:27 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Welp...
Congress has formally declared war 5 times and yes, each of those have ended in treaties.
However, Syria is not a formal war, nor was Iraq, where the war was declared ended in 2011, with no treaties signed.
And if we're speaking on conflicts the US have been involved not declared by Congress in that did not end in treaties, there are numerous instances where we invaded and eventually withdrew forces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaratio...ted_States
Game. Set. Match.
it might be the epitome of jingoism to think that the people on the receiving end of our cruise missiles and A-10 barrages understand or care about the nuances of constitutional law in the United States.
Stuff from us exploded and killed people over there. It's an act of War. It is war. those people want to know who will be in charge after we're done messing with them.
(12-28-2018, 11:25 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2018, 01:21 AM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]Game. Set. Match.
it might be the epitome of jingoism to think that the people on the receiving end of our cruise missiles and A-10 barrages understand or care about the nuances of constitutional law in the United States.
Stuff from us exploded and killed people over there. It's an act of War. It is war. those people want to know who will be in charge after we're done messing with them.
Have you ever been incorrect?
(12-28-2018, 03:42 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2018, 11:25 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]it might be the epitome of jingoism to think that the people on the receiving end of our cruise missiles and A-10 barrages understand or care about the nuances of constitutional law in the United States.
Stuff from us exploded and killed people over there. It's an act of War. It is war. those people want to know who will be in charge after we're done messing with them.
Have you ever been incorrect?
I don't think anyone's ever challenged his superiority complex in person... they just nod their head, smile and get away from him.
Just like all normal people do to that guy who has to be right all the time.
(12-28-2018, 03:42 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2018, 11:25 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]it might be the epitome of jingoism to think that the people on the receiving end of our cruise missiles and A-10 barrages understand or care about the nuances of constitutional law in the United States.
Stuff from us exploded and killed people over there. It's an act of War. It is war. those people want to know who will be in charge after we're done messing with them.
Have you ever been incorrect?
Yes. Many times. Did I say something wrong here?
You're the one trying to make this about me.
(12-28-2018, 03:50 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2018, 03:42 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Have you ever been incorrect?
I don't think anyone's ever challenged his superiority complex in person... they just nod their head, smile and get away from him.
Just like all normal people do to that guy who has to be right all the time.
I don't think you've met my wife.
.gif "Laughing")
(12-28-2018, 04:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2018, 03:42 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Have you ever been incorrect?
Yes. Many times. Did I say something wrong here?
You're the one trying to make this about me.
(12-28-2018, 03:50 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think anyone's ever challenged his superiority complex in person... they just nod their head, smile and get away from him.
Just like all normal people do to that guy who has to be right all the time.
I don't think you've met my wife.
Re-read post 3, 7 and 9 and get back to me.
(12-28-2018, 08:48 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2018, 04:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. Many times. Did I say something wrong here?
You're the one trying to make this about me.
I don't think you've met my wife.
Re-read post 3, 7 and 9 and get back to me.
Am I reading a different thread? In post 3 mike stated an opinion about how he thinks wars should be resolved, not how they have been resolved historically. In post 7, he did not say all wars end in treaties, he asked how it worked out when they didn't. In post 9, Kane showed us that all officially declared wars ended in treaties, and there were numerous armed conflicts, most of which did not end in treaties or even agreed upon terms. And the aftermath of many of those wasn't good, for us or the people from whom we withdrew support.
I will give mike this, he can get y'all derailed faster than a Trump tweet.
Back on topic, do we as a nation owe protection to allies when we withdraw from a conflict?
(12-29-2018, 11:08 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2018, 08:48 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Re-read post 3, 7 and 9 and get back to me.
Am I reading a different thread? In post 3 mike stated an opinion about how he thinks wars should be resolved, not how they have been resolved historically. In post 7, he did not say all wars end in treaties, he asked how it worked out when they didn't. In post 9, Kane showed us that all officially declared wars ended in treaties, and there were numerous armed conflicts, most of which did not end in treaties or even agreed upon terms. And the aftermath of many of those wasn't good, for us or the people from whom we withdrew support.
I will give mike this, he can get y'all derailed faster than a Trump tweet.
Back on topic, do we as a nation owe protection to allies when we withdraw from a conflict?
Thank you.
It's like they see me disagreeing with them about one thing and then they atribute all these things that I never said to me. I can't know for sure but they may have heard some Goldstein figure saying those things on Fox News or Limbaugh. It wasn't me.
![[Image: Syria.jpg?zoom=1.6500000953674316&fit=989%2C576&ssl=1]](https://i1.wp.com/www.nationalreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Syria.jpg?zoom=1.6500000953674316&fit=989%2C576&ssl=1)