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(01-23-2019, 10:45 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2019, 09:04 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]He’s got some accuracy issues that concern me. Came in under 6’1” also.

70.7% completions for the year. That doesn't show accuracy problems to me and certainly not when I watched him this year. As far as the height, as long as he's over 6' I'm fine with him.

Minshew measured under UNDER 6010

That’s a great comp % - but he sure did throw behind a bunch of receivers in the past two practices.

(01-24-2019, 11:43 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2019, 10:45 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]70.7% completions for the year. That doesn't show accuracy problems to me and certainly not when I watched him this year. As far as the height, as long as he's over 6' I'm fine with him.

Minshew measured under UNDER 6010

That’s a great comp % - but he sure did throw behind a bunch of receivers in the past two practices.

He's nothing more than a product of Mike Leach's system.

Connor Halliday and Luke Falk both (6'4 with ideal size) put up great numbers at WSU under Leach as well (2012-2017). What have they did beyond that? Nothing.

Graham Harrell put up incredible numbers in Leach's system at Texas Tech. He was a Heisman Finalist as well and he didn't even get drafted.

Kliff Kingsbury, B.J. Symons etc. all put up incredible numbers at Texas Tech under Leach as well. The list goes on and on. None of them did anything in the NFL.

Maybe Minshew is the outlier, but I highly doubt it.

(01-24-2019, 11:43 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-23-2019, 10:45 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]70.7% completions for the year. That doesn't show accuracy problems to me and certainly not when I watched him this year. As far as the height, as long as he's over 6' I'm fine with him.

Minshew measured under UNDER 6010

That’s a great comp % - but he sure did throw behind a bunch of receivers in the past two practices.

That's still over 6' tall. According to the official Senior Bowl site he measured 6' 7/10" That's actually slightly taller than Baker Mayfield and Drew Brees.

(01-25-2019, 12:39 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-24-2019, 11:43 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Minshew measured under UNDER 6010

That’s a great comp % - but he sure did throw behind a bunch of receivers in the past two practices.

That's still over 6' tall. According to the official Senior Bowl site he measured 6' 7/10" That's actually slightly taller than Baker Mayfield and Drew Brees.

They actually measure in 1/8", so Minshew came in just barely under 6'1, at 6' 7/8". Still doesn't change much. He's still short and not good.

He had 2 years at East Carolina before he went to WSU and he was garbage. Under 60% (58% and 57%) completion % both of those years at East Carolina. 8 TD 4 INT and 16 TD 7 INT both of those years as well. He's nothing more than a product of a system.

(01-25-2019, 01:40 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2019, 12:39 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]That's still over 6' tall. According to the official Senior Bowl site he measured 6' 7/10" That's actually slightly taller than Baker Mayfield and Drew Brees.

They actually measure in 1/8", so Minshew came in just barely under 6'1, at 6' 7/8". Still doesn't change much. He's still short and not good.

He had 2 years at East Carolina before he went to WSU and he was garbage. Under 60% (58% and 57%) completion % both of those years at East Carolina. 8 TD 4 INT and 16 TD 7 INT both of those years as well. He's nothing more than a product of a system.

Whatever it is, he's still over 6' and that is my cutoff. As far as Minshew himself, I currently have him as a late 5th rounder. Nothing for us to worry about anyway. We'd better draft a QB way before that point.

I'd be good with drafting Bradbury and moving Linder to RG. Had him in my last mock

Sure sounds like Stidham had himself a very nice week on the twitter air waves.

(01-25-2019, 03:06 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/jimnagy_sb/status/10...30081?s=21

I know Deebo was amazing. 

I don't see him lasting until the 2nd round though.

If we somehow acquired Foles or some other vet QB and then traded back to the middle of the first, I'm not sure if I would object to drafting him too much.  I'd prefer stocking up on linemen especially if Parnell or Cann leaves, but we need targets outside besides DeDe, Chark and Cole.

If we were to get Foles I'm trading back in the first and the taking Metcalf or Hockenson

(01-26-2019, 12:08 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]If we were to get Foles I'm trading back in the first and the taking Metcalf or Hockenson

I just read that Metcalf got cleared for his neck injury.  He's battled a lot of injuries.

If he's healthy, he would instantly give the Jaguars something they haven't had in a while-a big bodied receiver who can catch the intermediate pass who can also get deep.

I've seen Hockenson and Fant, but I need to see more of them. I know they used Hockenson as the in line TE (the traditional Y) and Fant as the move TE in many situations.  I would still like to see more.  I'd like to see some accurate, official heights and weights for them.  I've seen some on the internet where they are both basically the same guy (6'5, 232 or so), but I don't trust those measurements.  If I assume they are true, I would think they have to put on some weight.  The clips I've seen, these guys have gotten a lot of clean releases in their routes.  I'd like to see them get past a big, physical Sam or SS to get off the LOS.  That said, once these guys get into their routes, they are amazing.  Both get separation in their routes.  Fant has the ability to run away from defenses.  Hockenson gets deep separation too, but also does well in jump ball/contested catches.    

Like last year, even though I think TE is a need, I don't see them taking a TE early, unless our new OC has more input in the draft selection., especially since this is supposedly a deep TE draft.  TC's TE paradigm is a big, inline TE that can block and catch.  I'm not sure either guy fits, even though based on what I've seen, both are good prospects.

(01-26-2019, 12:21 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-26-2019, 12:08 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]If we were to get Foles I'm trading back in the first and the taking Metcalf or Hockenson

I just read that Metcalf got cleared for his neck injury.  He's battled a lot of injuries.

If he's healthy, he would instantly give the Jaguars something they haven't had in a while-a big bodied receiver who can catch the intermediate pass who can also get deep.

I've seen Hockenson and Fant, but I need to see more of them. I know they used Hockenson as the in line TE (the traditional Y) and Fant as the move TE in many situations.  I would still like to see more.  I'd like to see some accurate, official heights and weights for them.  I've seen some on the internet where they are both basically the same guy (6'5, 232 or so), but I don't trust those measurements.  If I assume they are true, I would think they have to put on some weight.  The clips I've seen, these guys have gotten a lot of clean releases in their routes.  I'd like to see them get past a big, physical Sam or SS to get off the LOS.  That said, once these guys get into their routes, they are amazing.  Both get separation in their routes.  Fant has the ability to run away from defenses.  Hockenson gets deep separation too, but also does well in jump ball/contested catches.    

Like last year, even though I think TE is a need, I don't see them taking a TE early, unless our new OC has more input in the draft selection., especially since this is supposedly a deep TE draft.  TC's TE paradigm is a big, inline TE that can block and catch.  I'm not sure either guy fits, even though based on what I've seen, both are good prospects.

Hockenson is a great pass catcher and an elite blocker.  I want a TE that is really good at both and Hockenson is

B.s. the senior bowl is only on NFL network.

(01-26-2019, 01:15 PM)surfon Wrote: [ -> ]B.s. the senior bowl is only on NFL network.

Did I miss something?

Please elaborate.

(01-26-2019, 01:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-26-2019, 12:21 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I just read that Metcalf got cleared for his neck injury.  He's battled a lot of injuries.

If he's healthy, he would instantly give the Jaguars something they haven't had in a while-a big bodied receiver who can catch the intermediate pass who can also get deep.

I've seen Hockenson and Fant, but I need to see more of them. I know they used Hockenson as the in line TE (the traditional Y) and Fant as the move TE in many situations.  I would still like to see more.  I'd like to see some accurate, official heights and weights for them.  I've seen some on the internet where they are both basically the same guy (6'5, 232 or so), but I don't trust those measurements.  If I assume they are true, I would think they have to put on some weight.  The clips I've seen, these guys have gotten a lot of clean releases in their routes.  I'd like to see them get past a big, physical Sam or SS to get off the LOS.  That said, once these guys get into their routes, they are amazing.  Both get separation in their routes.  Fant has the ability to run away from defenses.  Hockenson gets deep separation too, but also does well in jump ball/contested catches.    

Like last year, even though I think TE is a need, I don't see them taking a TE early, unless our new OC has more input in the draft selection., especially since this is supposedly a deep TE draft.  TC's TE paradigm is a big, inline TE that can block and catch.  I'm not sure either guy fits, even though based on what I've seen, both are good prospects.

Hockenson is a great pass catcher and an elite blocker.  I want a TE that is really good at both and Hockenson is

I am in total agreement about Hockenson being the total package at tight end. With ASJ apparently on the way out, tight end definitely needs to be a priority along with offensive line and wide receiver. I left out quarterback because the Jags are the leading contender to get Foles. If this happens, they can wait until the 3rd or 4th rounds to get their developmental quarterback. I really don't believe any quarterback not named Haskins would have been a good pick in round 1 and Haskins will be taken by the time the Jaguars get to the podium. Stidham, Jackson and Finley are 3 guys who could be viable options at that spot. With Foles as the starter for at least 2-3 more years, I'd even be o.k. with waiting until the 6th or 7th round to take Trace McSorley. As a PSU fan (admittedly biased), I believe he'd be a great back-up to Foles due to his intelligence, leadership and toughness. He may not be your prototypical NFL q.b., but I predict he will win games for some NFL team in the future. 

My ideal draft would go like this:

Rd. 1 - Trade back to mid 1st and take best right tackle (maybe Cody Ford).

Rd. 2- Tight end (Hockenson or Irv Smith)

Rd.3 - Chris Linstrom, wide receiver and quarterback

This draft is loaded at wide receiver even though there's not a clear number 1. One of those guys will fall to the 3rd round (maybe someone like Sills of West Virginia) and they can use their extra 3rd from the trade down in round 1 to take Stidham or the quarterback they prefer. 

This scenerio allows them to cut Parnell, ASJ and Cann and hopefully have enough money to keep Dareus and Gipson, especially if Campbell re-structures his contract. I'd feel very comfortable with the Jaguars going into next season with this roster.

(01-26-2019, 02:57 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-26-2019, 01:15 PM)surfon Wrote: [ -> ]B.s. the senior bowl is only on NFL network.

Did I miss something?

Please elaborate.

You said they used Hockenson as an inline TE.  Then you said TC likes a big inline TE that can catch and block and not sure either guy fits.  I'm confused here, are you saying Hockenson cant block? The guy is probably the best blocking TE in the draft.  I don't get what you were trying to say

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(01-26-2019, 03:10 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-26-2019, 01:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Hockenson is a great pass catcher and an elite blocker.  I want a TE that is really good at both and Hockenson is

I am in total agreement about Hockenson being the total package at tight end. With ASJ apparently on the way out, tight end definitely needs to be a priority along with offensive line and wide receiver. I left out quarterback because the Jags are the leading contender to get Foles. If this happens, they can wait until the 3rd or 4th rounds to get their developmental quarterback. I really don't believe any quarterback not named Haskins would have been a good pick in round 1 and Haskins will be taken by the time the Jaguars get to the podium. Stidham, Jackson and Finley are 3 guys who could be viable options at that spot. With Foles as the starter for at least 2-3 more years, I'd even be o.k. with waiting until the 6th or 7th round to take Trace McSorley. As a PSU fan (admittedly biased), I believe he'd be a great back-up to Foles due to his intelligence, leadership and toughness. He may not be your prototypical NFL q.b., but I predict he will win games for some NFL team in the future. 

My ideal draft would go like this:

Rd. 1 - Trade back to mid 1st and take best right tackle (maybe Cody Ford).

Rd. 2- Tight end (Hockenson or Irv Smith)

Rd.3 - Chris Linstrom, wide receiver and quarterback

This draft is loaded at wide receiver even though there's not a clear number 1. One of those guys will fall to the 3rd round (maybe someone like Sills of West Virginia) and they can use their extra 3rd from the trade down in round 1 to take Stidham or the quarterback they prefer. 

This scenerio allows them to cut Parnell, ASJ and Cann and hopefully have enough money to keep Dareus and Gipson, especially if Campbell re-structures his contract. I'd feel very comfortable with the Jaguars going into next season with this roster.

I don't see Hockenson being there in the 2nd.  I dream first 2 rounds for me though if we got Foles would be Metcalf in the 1st and Hockenson in the 2nd, then go oline with our 2 3rd round picks

(01-26-2019, 03:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-26-2019, 02:57 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Did I miss something?

Please elaborate.

You said they used Hockenson as an inline TE.  Then you said TC likes a big inline TE that can catch and block.  I'm confused here, are you saying Hockenson cant block? The guy is probably the best blocking TE in the draft.  I don't get what you were trying to say

I wasn't talking to you when I posed the questions you quoted.  I was talking to surfon.

Regarding Hockenson, I am saying I am unsure about his blocking.  I have an Iowa game or two recorded somewhere   but I have to find them. In the interim I am reduced to watching clips, which places emphasis on pass plays for TEs.  When I see measurements putting him in the 235 lb range (which I said.I don't fully trust) then I wonder about his physicality.  If both he and Fant are truly in the 235 lb range, it matters little which is lined up in the true Y position, as both would likely have trouble with point of attack physicality at the NFL level at that weight.

Based upon what I  have seen of them, I like both of them as prospects.  Furthermore,  Iowa has produced some very good TE prospects over the years.  But I haven't seen either of them doing much in line blocking, and I am unsure of their measurements.   That's  why I am saying I need more information on them.

(01-26-2019, 04:15 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-26-2019, 03:51 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]You said they used Hockenson as an inline TE.  Then you said TC likes a big inline TE that can catch and block.  I'm confused here, are you saying Hockenson cant block? The guy is probably the best blocking TE in the draft.  I don't get what you were trying to say

I wasn't talking to you when I posed the questions you quoted.  I was talking to surfon.

Regarding Hockenson, I am saying I am unsure about his blocking.  I have an Iowa game or two recorded somewhere   but I have to find them. In the interim I am reduced to watching clips, which places emphasis on pass plays for TEs.  When I see measurements putting him in the 235 lb range (which I said.I don't fully trust) then I wonder about his physicality.  If both he and Fant are truly in the 235 lb range, it matters little which is lined up in the true Y position, as both would likely have trouble with point of attack physicality at the NFL level at that weight.

Based upon what I  have seen of them, I like both of them as prospects.  Furthermore,  Iowa has produced some very good TE prospects over the years.  But I haven't seen either of them doing much in line blocking, and I am unsure of their measurements.   That's  why I am saying I need more information on them.

The Iowa roster has Hockenson at 250 for what it’s worth. 

And they had Fant at 241.

And Kittle was 247 at the combine.

Yeah I'd say both play in the NFL at 250+