(01-23-2019, 05:33 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (01-23-2019, 05:22 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Responding to your response to TRM, it's not just the Western Press that viewed the election as fraudulent. Many governments and large swaths of the Venezuelan population see it the same way.
Regarding your response to me, think about this for a bit. Countries/entities that call the election fraudulent include the United Nations, European Union, the Organization of American States, the Lima Group, Australia, Canada and the United States.
Countries that accept the Venezuelan election include China, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Russia, Syria and Turkey.
Think about that for a bit.
Unfortunately I don't view the international world through the eyes of an American. The biggest foreign aggressor you mentioned there was the USA and they have a long track record of destabilising regimes and countries that doesn't help them.
The proof is in the pudding as they say.
Look at the two lists and think about it. Which list has more countries that are prosperous and more free? Which list has the most dictators and violates human rights routinely? Which list has the most countries that routinely execute opposing political parties in order to remain in power?
(01-23-2019, 05:40 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Now I wonder why the US has a vested interest in Venezuela?
Hmmmm
Their petroleum production or lack of does have on impact on the global economy so there is that.
The Venezuelan voting process has been widely lauded by the international community before and has multiple audits along the way. Hundreds of international monitors had no issue with the process and monitored huge turnout.
Only one opposition candidate considered the vote faulty but his grounds were based on on events prior to the election and he proved no proof as to why they should be. All opposition parties were present during the audits at each stage and found no problem, nor did the international monitors present.
It was a legit vote with millions and millions of Venezuelans getting involved in an electoral process they are very passionate about.
It's sad Amercians are so brainwashed by their press they'll believe everything their overlords tell them. Very 1984 esque.
(01-24-2019, 03:27 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]The Venezuelan voting process has been widely lauded by the international community before and has multiple audits along the way. Hundreds of international monitors had no issue with the process and monitored huge turnout.
Only one opposition candidate considered the vote faulty but his grounds were based on on events prior to the election and he proved no proof as to why they should be. All opposition parties were present during the audits at each stage and found no problem, nor did the international monitors present.
It was a legit vote with millions and millions of Venezuelans getting involved in an electoral process they are very passionate about.
It's sad Amercians are so brainwashed by their press they'll believe everything their overlords tell them. Very 1984 esque.
Venezuela has had two problematic elections recently.
One was maduro's re-election as president, and the other was to elect the members of their constitution amending assembly.
I don't doubt that the votes in both of those elections were counted correctly.
But I think the ability to get your name on the ballot was so tightly controlled the opposition did not have a chance. I also think there was violence and threats of violence against anyone who tried to campaign.
(01-24-2019, 07:57 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-24-2019, 03:27 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]The Venezuelan voting process has been widely lauded by the international community before and has multiple audits along the way. Hundreds of international monitors had no issue with the process and monitored huge turnout.
Only one opposition candidate considered the vote faulty but his grounds were based on on events prior to the election and he proved no proof as to why they should be. All opposition parties were present during the audits at each stage and found no problem, nor did the international monitors present.
It was a legit vote with millions and millions of Venezuelans getting involved in an electoral process they are very passionate about.
It's sad Amercians are so brainwashed by their press they'll believe everything their overlords tell them. Very 1984 esque.
Venezuela has had two problematic elections recently.
One was maduro's re-election as president, and the other was to elect the members of their constitution amending assembly.
I don't doubt that the votes in both of those elections were counted correctly.
But I think the ability to get your name on the ballot was so tightly controlled the opposition did not have a chance. I also think there was violence and threats of violence against anyone who tried to campaign.
You have to understand that the people banned from the ballot had tried rise armed forces up against Maduro. You attempt that in ANY country and you're going to end up banned from any election and likely in prison. The elections were absolutely legitimate and were noted as such by international monitors all over the world.
Now I'm not gonna pretend that I'm a fan of everything Maduro has done. All I'm against is Western forces launching a coup in a sovereign territory for their own interests and their interests alone..the right wings primary backers in this are rich Venezuelans and oil tycoons who stand to make a mountain of money with a right wing pro USA government in place.
As with any international conflict...follow the money.
(01-24-2019, 03:27 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]The Venezuelan voting process has been widely lauded by the international community before and has multiple audits along the way. Hundreds of international monitors had no issue with the process and monitored huge turnout.
Only one opposition candidate considered the vote faulty but his grounds were based on on events prior to the election and he proved no proof as to why they should be. All opposition parties were present during the audits at each stage and found no problem, nor did the international monitors present.
It was a legit vote with millions and millions of Venezuelans getting involved in an electoral process they are very passionate about.
It's sad Amercians are so brainwashed by their press they'll believe everything their overlords tell them. Very 1984 esque.
Yet that same International Community has condemned Maduro and have proclaimed Guaido as President.
So...... huh?
(01-24-2019, 09:31 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (01-24-2019, 07:57 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Venezuela has had two problematic elections recently.
One was maduro's re-election as president, and the other was to elect the members of their constitution amending assembly.
I don't doubt that the votes in both of those elections were counted correctly.
But I think the ability to get your name on the ballot was so tightly controlled the opposition did not have a chance. I also think there was violence and threats of violence against anyone who tried to campaign.
You have to understand that the people banned from the ballot had tried rise armed forces up against Maduro. You attempt that in ANY country and you're going to end up banned from any election and likely in prison. The elections were absolutely legitimate and were noted as such by international monitors all over the world.
Now I'm not gonna pretend that I'm a fan of everything Maduro has done. All I'm against is Western forces launching a coup in a sovereign territory for their own interests and their interests alone..the right wings primary backers in this are rich Venezuelans and oil tycoons who stand to make a mountain of money with a right wing pro USA government in place.
As with any international conflict...follow the money.
We launched a coup? What? You sure are getting emotional about this.
(01-24-2019, 09:31 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (01-24-2019, 07:57 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Venezuela has had two problematic elections recently.
One was maduro's re-election as president, and the other was to elect the members of their constitution amending assembly.
I don't doubt that the votes in both of those elections were counted correctly.
But I think the ability to get your name on the ballot was so tightly controlled the opposition did not have a chance. I also think there was violence and threats of violence against anyone who tried to campaign.
You have to understand that the people banned from the ballot had tried rise armed forces up against Maduro. You attempt that in ANY country and you're going to end up banned from any election and likely in prison. The elections were absolutely legitimate and were noted as such by international monitors all over the world.
Now I'm not gonna pretend that I'm a fan of everything Maduro has done. All I'm against is Western forces launching a coup in a sovereign territory for their own interests and their interests alone..the right wings primary backers in this are rich Venezuelans and oil tycoons who stand to make a mountain of money with a right wing pro USA government in place.
As with any international conflict...follow the money.
The people only got the opportunity to vote for 1/3 of the members.
The other 2/3 were appointed by mayors and city councils.
The opposition has criticized the selection of representatives by municipal governments because municipal elections had been delayed until after constituents were chosen for the assembly[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/#cite_note-REUTdelay-50][/url] – with each vote being a "secret vote".
(01-24-2019, 09:51 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (01-24-2019, 09:31 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]You have to understand that the people banned from the ballot had tried rise armed forces up against Maduro. You attempt that in ANY country and you're going to end up banned from any election and likely in prison. The elections were absolutely legitimate and were noted as such by international monitors all over the world.
Now I'm not gonna pretend that I'm a fan of everything Maduro has done. All I'm against is Western forces launching a coup in a sovereign territory for their own interests and their interests alone..the right wings primary backers in this are rich Venezuelans and oil tycoons who stand to make a mountain of money with a right wing pro USA government in place.
As with any international conflict...follow the money.
We launched a coup? What? You sure are getting emotional about this.
I have the same question. I'm not quite getting this stuff about "Western forces launching a coup."
(01-24-2019, 10:39 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (01-24-2019, 09:51 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]We launched a coup? What? You sure are getting emotional about this.
I have the same question. I'm not quite getting this stuff about "Western forces launching a coup."
Western governments backing an illegitimate leader to suit their own interests.. definitely not a Western backed coup
Personally, I see it as a humanitarian crisis so whatever the US can do to benefit the mass majority of the people, I'm for it.
(01-24-2019, 11:11 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]![[Image: ocasiohugo.jpg]](http://ace.mu.nu/archives/ocasiohugo.jpg)
Venezuela has been practicing a robust form of socialism, more robust than AOC proposes, since 1976. Wasn't until Chavez fired striking oil workers and replaced them with party loyalists that the wheels came off.
Wow - a dictator who Donald doesn't bow down to. I guess he decided not to build that Trump Tower in Caracas.
Fact is - if these US actions were being taken by anyone other than Donald you'd have these "small government conservatives" yelling neocons, neocons! regime change, regime change! I thought that was the Bush/Obama agenda.
Iraq was all about the oil, right? But Venezuela is a humanitarian crises? My, how some people change with the wind.
(01-24-2019, 01:56 PM)Adam2012 Wrote: [ -> ]Wow - a dictator who Donald doesn't bow down to. I guess he decided not to build that Trump Tower in Caracas.
Fact is - if these US actions were being taken by anyone other than Donald you'd have these "small government conservatives" yelling neocons, neocons! regime change, regime change! I thought that was the Bush/Obama agenda.
Iraq was all about the oil, right? But Venezuela is a humanitarian crises? My, how some people change with the wind.
You should at least be fair and mention Obama bowing down to China, Cuba, and Iran.