Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Still think it's a good deal for Seattle. Any time you can get early picks an not have to give up the big money it's a win

(04-23-2019, 03:11 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2019, 02:40 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Dee Ford as a 3-4 stand up OLB? Perhaps they are roughly equal.

Dee Ford with his hand on the ground in a 4-3?  No, and the Chiefs have switched to that scheme.  Clark works with his hand on the ground and is better against the run. 

Besides, KC will never forgive Ford for his off sides penalty.

Didn’t Ford play a traditional 4-3 role in college and was asked to play stand up backer in KC? I may be wrong on that. Why not package those picks to move up for a player? Especially if Sweat is to fall as suggested? Ford + Sweat and an additional 20 million in cap seems like a better package deal than Clark + ? Since Houston is no longer with the team.

  There's no guarantee any proposed trade up would work.  Maybe their guy is off the board.  Maybe they can't agree to terms on a trade.  Maybe the player they pick doesn't work out, and yet another of Mahomes' prime years are wasted due to no defense.

As for Ford's position in college, b his second year, his move to OLB was permanent for KC.  They felt he couldn't handle being consistently in a 3 point stance against bigger tackles.

(04-23-2019, 03:11 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2019, 02:04 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Small school and abysmal athletic profile...yikes. Not saying he can't since I haven't watched him, but he has a lot to overcome.

He excelled Senior Bowl week and was one of the most impressive interior linemen that week. He stuffed some very good competition. I was impressed. I could care less about the athletics, as long as he produces on the field and that week, he looked NFL ready.

That's nice and all, but the Senior Bowl is probably one of the smallest pieces of the total evaluation puzzle to me.

(04-23-2019, 03:24 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Still think it's a good deal for Seattle.  Any time you can get early picks an not have to give up the big money it's a win

Agreed, they won this one.

(04-23-2019, 07:09 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2019, 03:11 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]He excelled Senior Bowl week and was one of the most impressive interior linemen that week. He stuffed some very good competition. I was impressed. I could care less about the athletics, as long as he produces on the field and that week, he looked NFL ready.

That's nice and all, but the Senior Bowl is probably one of the smallest pieces of the total evaluation puzzle to me.

Everyone has different ways of evaluating. I prefer on the field play. To me, that's about 80% of what I grade on for O-Linemen.

(04-23-2019, 08:10 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2019, 07:09 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]That's nice and all, but the Senior Bowl is probably one of the smallest pieces of the total evaluation puzzle to me.

Everyone has different ways of evaluating. I prefer on the field play. To me, that's about 80% of what I grade on for O-Linemen.

Upper is about 90% combine/sparq

(04-23-2019, 08:10 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2019, 07:09 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]That's nice and all, but the Senior Bowl is probably one of the smallest pieces of the total evaluation puzzle to me.

Everyone has different ways of evaluating. I prefer on the field play. To me, that's about 80% of what I grade on for O-Linemen.

And the Senior Bowl counts as on field?

(04-23-2019, 08:35 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2019, 08:10 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone has different ways of evaluating. I prefer on the field play. To me, that's about 80% of what I grade on for O-Linemen.

And the Senior Bowl counts as on field?

Why not? It's a game isn't it?

(04-23-2019, 08:30 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2019, 08:10 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone has different ways of evaluating. I prefer on the field play. To me, that's about 80% of what I grade on for O-Linemen.

Upper is about 90% combine/sparq

I try to model like the best drafting teams do. There are thresholds for the well known position/drill correlations (mostly 3 cone for EDGE and shuttle for OL), and then you scout those guys. For most positions there is enough different body/profile types that can be successful that I only seriously prop/discount guys that test in the extremes of the SPARQ percentiles.

We just happen to be talking a ton about OL/EDGE this draft season so I've brought up athletic profiles a lot because what we want also happens to have the most clear thresholds. I haven't done it for the TE/WR/S types that we've mentioned, in fact I've gone out of my way to trump up some guys who are average at best athletes like Sternberger, Oliver, JJAW, Harmon, and Isabella.

---

(04-23-2019, 08:38 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2019, 08:35 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]And the Senior Bowl counts as on field?

Why not? It's a game isn't it?

Oh god you meant the game itself, not the practices. Even the draftniks that put weight into it say the practices are 90% of the senior bowl evaluation not the game, and the whole week means fairly little in the grand scheme.

(04-23-2019, 08:42 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2019, 08:30 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Upper is about 90% combine/sparq

I try to model like the best drafting teams do. There are thresholds for the well known position/drill correlations (mostly 3 cone for EDGE and shuttle for OL), and then you scout those guys. For most positions there is enough different body/profile types that can be successful that I only seriously prop/discount guys that test in the extremes of the SPARQ percentiles.

We just happen to be talking a ton about OL/EDGE this draft season so I've brought up athletic profiles a lot because what we want also happens to have the most clear thresholds. I haven't done it for the TE/WR/S types that we've mentioned, in fact I've gone out of my way to trump up some guys who are average at best athletes like Sternberger, Oliver, JJAW, Harmon, and Isabella.

---

(04-23-2019, 08:38 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Why not? It's a game isn't it?

Oh god you meant the game itself, not the practices. Even the draftniks that put weight into it say the practices are 90% of the senior bowl evaluation not the game, and the whole week means fairly little in the grand scheme.

Legitimate question, do you have any links that support your theories? Genuinely intrigued to read more about the correlation.

(04-23-2019, 08:42 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

---

(04-23-2019, 08:38 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Why not? It's a game isn't it?

Oh god you meant the game itself, not the practices. Even the draftniks that put weight into it say the practices are 90% of the senior bowl evaluation not the game, and the whole week means fairly little in the grand scheme.

I was counting the practices and the game. He excelled in both. I watched the practices all week and he stuffed some very good pass rushers who are gonna get drafted high.

I don't know if this qualifies as a rumour or not but John Osher yesterday said he will be surprised if they are unable to trade down a few spots, he thinks that unless one of the top 2-3 DL is there at 7 the Jaguars want to trade down and he expects them to pick between the 10 and 13 spot. 

Link here (talks about the trade scenario after 1.30)

https://twitter.com/Jaguars/status/1120818505182588929

(04-24-2019, 07:53 AM)irontrooper83 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if this qualifies as a rumour or not but John Osher yesterday said he will be surprised if they are unable to trade down a few spots, he thinks that unless one of the top 2-3 DL is there at 7 the Jaguars want to trade down and he expects them to pick between the 10 and 13 spot. 

Link here (talks about the trade scenario after 1.30)

https://twitter.com/Jaguars/status/1120818505182588929

Smoke and mirrors. Smoke and mirrors.

(04-24-2019, 07:53 AM)irontrooper83 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if this qualifies as a rumour or not but John Osher yesterday said he will be surprised if they are unable to trade down a few spots, he thinks that unless one of the top 2-3 DL is there at 7 the Jaguars want to trade down and he expects them to pick between the 10 and 13 spot. 

Link here (talks about the trade scenario after 1.30)

https://twitter.com/Jaguars/status/1120818505182588929

Good to hear either way.

(04-24-2019, 07:53 AM)irontrooper83 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if this qualifies as a rumour or not but John Osher yesterday said he will be surprised if they are unable to trade down a few spots, he thinks that unless one of the top 2-3 DL is there at 7 the Jaguars want to trade down and he expects them to pick between the 10 and 13 spot. 

Link here (talks about the trade scenario after 1.30)

https://twitter.com/Jaguars/status/1120818505182588929

Whoa!

Oesher predicting a trade down!

I take snything that I hear this time of year with a grain of salt.

He'll probably be gone but if we trade down with Haskins on the board (not that I think they'll draft him) it will be extremely interesting to follow over the next few years

(04-24-2019, 07:53 AM)irontrooper83 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if this qualifies as a rumour or not but John Osher yesterday said he will be surprised if they are unable to trade down a few spots, he thinks that unless one of the top 2-3 DL is there at 7 the Jaguars want to trade down and he expects them to pick between the 10 and 13 spot. 

Link here (talks about the trade scenario after 1.30)

https://twitter.com/Jaguars/status/1120818505182588929

I think this is what we do as well.  I think it will take the other teams 2nd and 4th or 5th to move back which will be good value.  Then we take Hockenson or Jonah Williams although in think William's will be our 1st option.

(04-24-2019, 09:12 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2019, 07:53 AM)irontrooper83 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if this qualifies as a rumour or not but John Osher yesterday said he will be surprised if they are unable to trade down a few spots, he thinks that unless one of the top 2-3 DL is there at 7 the Jaguars want to trade down and he expects them to pick between the 10 and 13 spot. 

Link here (talks about the trade scenario after 1.30)

https://twitter.com/Jaguars/status/1120818505182588929

I think this is what we do as well.  I think it will take the other teams 2nd and 4th or 5th to move back which will be good value.  Then we take Hockenson or Jonah Williams although in think William's will be our 1st option.

If we drop back to the 10-13 range, not sure both guys will be there.

Let's assume it's Atlanta (pick 14 round 1 and pick 13 round 2).

Jags could roll out
RD1- Fant
RD2- Harry
RD2 (ATL)- Risner/McGary

I don't mind the idea of a WR room including Westbrook, Chark, and Harry. Lee is totally superfluous though at that point and unfortunately I don't think he's going anywhere. Keesean Johnson in the 4th would be great otherwise