Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(07-01-2019, 06:56 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2019, 05:11 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Huh?

Mark Rypien won a Superbowl MVP

He also shares that record with 6 other QBs.

P Manning
Foles
Y A Tittle
George Blanda
Sid Luckman
Adrian Burk
Joe Kapp
Drew Brees

Now.... my extensive NFL knowledge doesn't go super far back... but I'm willing to bet there's an average QB or two on that list.

Foles also did it to a terrible Oakland team that had 4 wins and allowed the 4th most points in the league that year.

You would lose that bet. Every player on that list were pro bowl players. Most were champions, and  current or future hall of famers.

(07-02-2019, 10:26 AM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]I'd take a ring here any way we could get it.

(07-02-2019, 10:26 AM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]I'd take a ring here any way we could get it.

(07-02-2019, 12:09 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-02-2019, 10:26 AM)Hard_Eight Wrote: [ -> ]I'd take a ring here any way we could get it.

Fully agree.

I don't care if we have an elite QB or whatever.

Just win

(07-02-2019, 09:43 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2019, 06:56 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]You would lose that bet. Every player on that list were pro bowl players. Most were champions, and  current or future hall of famers.

Alright... you made me do some work...

Adrian Burk
TD–INT:
61–89
Yards:
7,001
Passer rating:
52.2

Average no? Sure he made a pro bowl or two.... but pro bowl doesn't mean much. His career stats are average I'd say, even for the era of football he played in.

Joe Kapp
Rat 48.9
Yds 5911
Y/A 6.4
TD 40
Int 64

I mean come on.... I'm not even saying these guys were garbage... Alls I'm saying is winning an award for being great once (a pro bowl, or a singular great game) or happening into some sort of record doesn't exactly elevate you beyond average.

Being better than average is playing above an average line for a long period.
And to be honest, Foles has actually been less than average for the majority of his career. Save for one season and a couple games with a really good Eagles roster.
Outside of Philly Foles played like poo with poo around him.

Dilfer is a champion too btw.
So ya know, rings don't tell the whole story either.

(07-02-2019, 02:51 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Blurb on Foles offseason focus and a video where Florio and Simms debate Simms' ranking of Foles at #16 for 2019 QBs.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ksonville/

(07-02-2019, 08:47 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-01-2019, 05:52 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]A few SB-winning QBs won the SB despite being an average QB because their D was simply that good. In the Eagles case, however, they won the SB primarily because Foles was so darn accurate and clutch. 

I get what you are saying but you are stretching it.  Foles did have a good game and most have said he has very, high highs and very, low lows.  Bringing up anything in his "high" sample size of games is not going to dispute the very low performances he has had.  If thats the case then QBs should be very easy to find based on a few great games without a full season under center.  I hear every year about how this or that QB looked good but nobody really had film on him for a full season.  Team gets film and it negates the dominance in future years.  Maybe i just look at the game different and pay attention to different parts of it then most others.

• 3 starts, 3 wins, 77 of 106 (72.6%) for 971 yards (9.2 YPA) and 6 TDs with 1 INT for a 115.7 qb rating
  

(07-02-2019, 02:51 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Blurb on Foles offseason focus and a video where Florio and Simms debate Simms' ranking of Foles at #16 for 2019 QBs.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ksonville/

(07-02-2019, 09:17 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Romanticizing the peaks and forgetting the valleys (or even baseline) is Jags02's specialty, not that he is anywhere near alone in that. Just recount his recent opinions on how Fournette, Robinson, and Norwell's Jaguars careers have gone thus far.

(07-02-2019, 02:44 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-02-2019, 09:43 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Alright... you made me do some work...

Adrian Burk
TD–INT:
61–89
Yards:
7,001
Passer rating:
52.2

Average no? Sure he made a pro bowl or two.... but pro bowl doesn't mean much. His career stats are average I'd say, even for the era of football he played in.

Joe Kapp
Rat 48.9
Yds 5911
Y/A 6.4
TD 40
Int 64

I mean come on.... I'm not even saying these guys were garbage... Alls I'm saying is winning an award for being great once (a pro bowl, or a singular great game) or happening into some sort of record doesn't exactly elevate you beyond average.

Being better than average is playing above an average line for a long period.
And to be honest, Foles has actually been less than average for the majority of his career. Save for one season and a couple games with a really good Eagles roster.
Outside of Philly Foles played like poo with poo around him.

Dilfer is a champion too btw.
So ya know, rings don't tell the whole story either.

When was Dilfer the MVP of a championship? What all time record does Dilfer hold?

If throwing 7TDs is something an average player can do, then why are the only other players in the last 50 years to accomplish this are Peyton Manning and Drew Brees?
All 3 hold the record and are Superbowl MVPs. Very average accomplishments.

(07-03-2019, 06:05 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-02-2019, 02:51 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Blurb on Foles offseason focus and a video where Florio and Simms debate Simms' ranking of Foles at #16 for 2019 QBs.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ksonville/

Notice how the other guy thinks 16 is way too low, and then Simms had to explain that it's nitpicky at this point because with the top 16 it's only minute details that separate 10 or 12 from 16. In other words, they both feel that Foles is an above average QB. 

(07-02-2019, 02:44 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-02-2019, 09:43 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Alright... you made me do some work...

Adrian Burk
TD–INT:
61–89
Yards:
7,001
Passer rating:
52.2

Average no? Sure he made a pro bowl or two.... but pro bowl doesn't mean much. His career stats are average I'd say, even for the era of football he played in.

Joe Kapp
Rat 48.9
Yds 5911
Y/A 6.4
TD 40
Int 64

I mean come on.... I'm not even saying these guys were garbage... Alls I'm saying is winning an award for being great once (a pro bowl, or a singular great game) or happening into some sort of record doesn't exactly elevate you beyond average.

Being better than average is playing above an average line for a long period.
And to be honest, Foles has actually been less than average for the majority of his career. Save for one season and a couple games with a really good Eagles roster.
Outside of Philly Foles played like poo with poo around him.

Dilfer is a champion too btw.
So ya know, rings don't tell the whole story either.

When was Dilfer the MVP of a championship? What all time record does Dilfer hold?

If throwing 7TDs is something an average player can do, then why are the only other players in the last 50 years to accomplish this are Peyton Manning and Drew Brees?
All 3 hold the record and are Superbowl MVPs. Very average accomplishments.

(07-03-2019, 09:30 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-02-2019, 02:44 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]When was Dilfer the MVP of a championship? What all time record does Dilfer hold?

If throwing 7TDs is something an average player can do, then why are the only other players in the last 50 years to accomplish this are Peyton Manning and Drew Brees?
All 3 hold the record and are Superbowl MVPs. Very average accomplishments.

Don't strain yourself moving those goal posts...
I said Dilfer was a champion.

The question here is, can average QBs accomplish "great" things. Set records. Win championships and MVPs.
I listed a few examples of all of it.
I said my list contained one or two average guys, then proved that it did.
Never did I say Manning or Brees were average.

And if I had to bet, I'd bet 7 TDs becomes a more likely feat as the game moves that way.
And I'd bet Brees could do it again and Foles likely never would.

Previously I named a Superbowl MVP who was average in Rypien.
Eli Manning won Superbowl MVP and while he was certainly spectacular in those playoffs, he was pretty average most of his career and a lot during the regular season.
Now I wouldn't exactly call Eli average... but maybe only 'above average'

We're splitting hairs here, unless you actually think Foles is some great QB or the next coming.
He's average with peaks of greatness.
But he's had seasons of awful play too. So buyer beware is all I'm saying. Everyone thinks he's the ticket to the big game... I just don't see it.
Not that we can't get there, we just won't get there, because of him.
However, unlike Bortles we won't get there, in spite of him.  coaching and bad game management in the 2nd half.  fixed.

(07-03-2019, 09:41 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-03-2019, 09:30 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Not that we can't get there, we just won't get there, because of him.
However, unlike Bortles we won't get there, in spite of him.  coaching and bad game management in the 2nd half.  fixed.

(07-03-2019, 10:20 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Oh lord... are people still hanging onto the B-train?

I thought I was one of the last ones off...
Guess there will always be those who can't admit they were wrong about a guy.

(Bad coaching and game management certainly were an issue, but let's not pretend that Bortles was often drug to the finish line in most of our wins. I loved his heart and grit and his team first fall on the sword attitude. But as a QB he left a lot to be desired and ultimately broke my heart lol you should move on like the majority of us have)