(06-07-2019, 09:42 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Yep, Ramsey was great 2 years ago (2017) when the opposing QBs only had 2 seconds to throw the ball and the Jags had 55 sacks. Another factor in 2017 was the fact that we went up against every backup QB in the league
Last year (2018) -- not so great. Our defensive pressure on the QB dwindles as did Ramsey's play on the field.
I Concur w/respect to the defense slipping in rankings and the sack totals to which reflects on the pass rush, or the lack of.
I don't agree that Ramsey is ranked ninth w/respect to NFL caliber CBs though. That's just bogus.
NH3...
(06-07-2019, 12:32 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2019, 12:25 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of good talent available to us at #4 that year.
Thing is, I understand exactly why the Fournette pick was made.
From a talent and scheme fit perspective, Fournette was right up there.
Factoring in position and Fournette's immaturity is where the team missed.
I have a lot of respect for your opinions on football, Bullseye, but I'm not sure fournette really has an abundance of NFL talent. To me he looks like a guy that has some good measurables, but good measurables doesn't mean talent. Running backs need to make guys miss, and fournette almost never makes anyone miss.
I appreciate the respect.
We obviously disagree on Fournette's talent level. In my mind, the question is not whether he has NFL talent at all. I've seen far less talented backs than LF have productive NFL careers.
His rookie year he showed plenty of talent.
Last year? Between the hamstring injury that kept him out half the season, the injury riddled OL that sabotaged him, and his own stupidity leading to the suspension, he didn't have much of a chance to show his stuff.
You specifically mention making guys miss. I readily admit Fournette is not Barry Sanders in that regard. But that doesn't mean he can't be effective. For years, power backs have been effective in the NFL without spectacular fake out, and it still holds true today. Though this is a game I would love to forget, Derrick Henry didn't show much shiftiness in running all over us.
Even with the lack of consistent blocking, LF dominated the Buffalo game until he got kicked out for the fight.
When healthy and focused, LF helped provide the team offensive toughness and enabled the team to employ ball control.
The question is whether his total package of talent, durability, and focus/maturity made him worth the 4th overall pick. From a purely talent perspective, I and most other observers at the time thought so. Adding in the durability and focus/maturity is what really brings his NFL worthiness into question.
Im with Bullseye, Fournette has loads of talent. People forget hamstring injuries linger for weeks if not months... it didnt help that they tried to rush him back 2 weeks later and immediatly gave him a full workload. Prior to the hamstring tweak week 1 he was running all over the giants at 4.5 ypc, by the time he got back our oline was decimated, our OC telegraphed plays, and LF27 was legitimately the only guy teams needed to stop if Fournette didnt carry the O we werent winning the game.
I think Fournette will change a lot of minds this year. People are just always going to REEEE and move the goalposts bc if where he was drafted, rightly or wrongly
I think Fournette is talented.
I just prefer my top 5 draft pick RBs to have that talent steeped in vision and elusiveness.
Not disproportionately skewed to other areas of RB skill set while lacking those ^
I really do not like to put any one player on a pedestal in a team sport. Especially when they skip team activities.
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It's a fair spot based on his play last year.
240 pounds and runs a 4.5 and is one of the fastest backs on top end...good luck tackling that.
Fournette is immature but the kid can play. He turns a lot of short yardage stuff into extra downs.
(06-09-2019, 11:22 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]240 pounds and runs a 4.5 and is one of the fastest backs on top end...good luck tackling that.
Fournette is immature but the kid can play. He turns a lot of short yardage stuff into extra downs.
All that has managed to get him is a 3.7 ypc average. I agree he's very athletic but he needs to develop a better work ethic (and hopefully better vision).
(06-10-2019, 07:15 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2019, 11:22 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]240 pounds and runs a 4.5 and is one of the fastest backs on top end...good luck tackling that.
Fournette is immature but the kid can play. He turns a lot of short yardage stuff into extra downs.
All that has managed to get him is a 3.7 ypc average. I agree he's very athletic but he needs to develop a better work ethic (and hopefully better vision).
While overall ability unquestionably has an impact on ypc, it's not the only factor.
Nobody doubts Emmitt Smith's Hall of Fame credentials and abilities.
However, he only had a 3.9 ypc after his rookie season.
His OL had not completely come together by that time. There was no Erik William's or Larry Allen at that point to blow open holes for him.
Aikman was still injury prone and young. Irvin only played half the season as he recovered from a torn ACL from the year before. He had an inept OC in Mike Shula (David?) calling plays. Finally, at that point, he played in a division with some brutal defenses with the Parcells/Belichick/LT led Super Bowl champion Giants, the Joe Gibbs led Skins, and the Buddy Ryan led Eagles with Reggie White and Clyde Simmons, among others.
At this point, I do not, in any way compare LF to Emmitt Smith in talent or intangibles. But there are factors at play that adversely impacted LFs production fo date.
Stop saying Fournette has talent.
He has talent for the College game where he could run over everybody (except Alabama who owned him)
Now in the NFL everyone is just as strong as those 'Bama players that destroyed him. He's nothing in the big boy league. Average as the day is long.
(06-10-2019, 08:51 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Stop saying Fournette has talent.
He has talent for the College game where he could run over everybody (except Alabama who owned him)
Now in the NFL everyone is just as strong as those 'Bama players that destroyed him. He's nothing in the big boy league. Average as the day is long.
Explain his success against Pittsburgh and Buffalo.
(06-10-2019, 10:21 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2019, 12:32 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]I have a lot of respect for your opinions on football, Bullseye,
Lol .... I'm not sure if that's a complement or not coming from someone that is SeldomRite 
He has good takes, even if we don't always agree.
Besides, I will take any kudos where I can get them these days
(06-09-2019, 08:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]It's a fair spot based on his play last year.
Wait.... So Cousins is better than Brees? Goff and Ryan are better than Brady?
I mean they had better stats last season so surely they're better right?
(06-10-2019, 01:01 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (06-09-2019, 08:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]It's a fair spot based on his play last year.
Wait.... So Cousins is better than Brees? Goff and Ryan are better than Brady?
I mean they had better stats last season so surely they're better right?
I didn't look at stats and Cousisns damn sure didn't have a better season than Brees last year. Brees would of won MVP if it wasn't for Mahomes.
(06-10-2019, 12:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Explain his success against Pittsburgh and Buffalo.
Average, and even bad, has good days every now and then. Just look at Bortles and Gabbert.
(06-10-2019, 01:28 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-10-2019, 01:01 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Wait.... So Cousins is better than Brees? Goff and Ryan are better than Brady?
I mean they had better stats last season so surely they're better right?
I didn't look at stats and Cousisns damn sure didn't have a better season than Brees last year. Brees would of won MVP if it wasn't for Mahomes.
So if we aren't looking at stats, how was Ramsey the 9th best CB last year? What's the barometer?
And if we go by QB rating, Fitzpatrick was the 9th best QB and Cousins 10th. That's ahead of Luck, Rodgers and Brady.
(06-10-2019, 02:33 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (06-10-2019, 01:28 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't look at stats and Cousisns damn sure didn't have a better season than Brees last year. Brees would of won MVP if it wasn't for Mahomes.
So if we aren't looking at stats, how was Ramsey the 9th best CB last year? What's the barometer?
And if we go by QB rating, Fitzpatrick was the 9th best QB and Cousins 10th. That's ahead of Luck, Rodgers and Brady.
From his play on the field maybe? Who said anything about QB rating? Lol
(06-10-2019, 03:14 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-10-2019, 02:33 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]So if we aren't looking at stats, how was Ramsey the 9th best CB last year? What's the barometer?
And if we go by QB rating, Fitzpatrick was the 9th best QB and Cousins 10th. That's ahead of Luck, Rodgers and Brady.
From his play on the field maybe? Who said anything about QB rating? Lol
So after watching all 8 corners ahead of Ramsey, you think he was appropriately rated as the 9th best corner in the league?
My point of QB rating is to show that stats can sometimes be very misleading.
(06-10-2019, 03:41 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (06-10-2019, 03:14 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]From his play on the field maybe? Who said anything about QB rating? Lol
So after watching all 8 corners ahead of Ramsey, you think he was appropriately rated as the 9th best corner in the league?
My point of QB rating is to show that stats can sometimes be very misleading.
Who said anything about stats other than you? You are the stat guy that keeps bringing up stats. I said I think 9th is a fair rating from watching Ramsey in all the games last year and keeping up with the other corners around the league. Not from looking at his or all the other corners stats. Since you keep bringing up stats, where does Ramsey stat wise?
(06-10-2019, 05:15 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-10-2019, 03:41 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]So after watching all 8 corners ahead of Ramsey, you think he was appropriately rated as the 9th best corner in the league?
My point of QB rating is to show that stats can sometimes be very misleading.
Who said anything about stats other than you? You are the stat guy that keeps bringing up stats. I said I think 9th is a fair rating from watching Ramsey in all the games last year and keeping up with the other corners around the league. Not from looking at his or all the other corners stats. Since you keep bringing up stats, where does Ramsey stat wise?
I bring up stats because I have no idea how we are judging these corners.
I refuse to believe there are 8 corners better than Ramsey. No chance.