Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(06-10-2019, 07:35 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-10-2019, 05:15 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Who said anything about stats other than you?  You are the stat guy that keeps bringing up stats.  I said I think 9th is a fair rating from watching Ramsey in all the games last year and keeping up with the other corners around the league.  Not from looking at his or all the other corners stats.  Since you keep bringing up stats, where does Ramsey stat wise?

I bring up stats because I have no idea how we are judging these corners.

I refuse to believe there are 8 corners better than Ramsey. No chance.

How do you rank them?

(06-10-2019, 01:55 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-10-2019, 12:30 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Explain his success against Pittsburgh and Buffalo.

Average, and even bad, has good days every now and then. Just look at Bortles and Gabbert.

So in 3 games against Pittsburgh, two of which were in Pittsburgh, one a playoff game, and one here with a dilapidated offensive line and little other help on offense, he mustered 385 yards, or 128 yards a game.  Keep in mind, Pittsburgh was 4th against the run in '17 and 7th last year.  That is average?!?


18 Carries for 95 yards (greater than 5 ypc) is "bad?"

The argument was that because Alabama, a strong college defense, controlled him in college and all NFL defenses are better than college defenses, then Fournette would be shut down in the NFL.

But  Fournette showed in these games he could be productive against NFL defenses.

Comparisons with prior Jaguars busts at QB, that is also unpersuasive.

First, there is a strong argument that despite the inconsistency, Bortles has talent to play in the NFL,even if his production did not justify the pick.  First, it has been established that Houston considered taking him first overall.  While teams botch picks on QBs all the time, he would not have received such consideration if the Houston front office didn't think he had the innate talent to play.  Second, he holds some Jaguars passing records.  Dismiss them as garbage time records as you wish, but guys without the talent to play don't do that, garbage time or not.  Furthermore, he raised his level of play in the second half of the '17 season, and played damn good football in 2 of the 3 playoff games. In the playoffs, team weaknesses at QB are exploited.  Two strong defenses could not stop Bortles at home.  Finally, even after his release, the Rams picked him up immediately.  To remind you, they are coached by a guy many league insiders believe is the best young offensive mind in the game.  That wouldn't happen if it was a certainty Bortles did not have the talent to play.

Where comparisons to Gabbert and Boftles make sense are the intangibles.  Most Jaguars fans feel Gabbert was terrified in the pocket.  Many of the same fans said Bortles didn't take his craft seriously.  Rumors of his bar hopping and carousing were rampant throughout his stay here.  The biggest criticism of Fournette here surrounds his intangibles.  From the violation of team rules that led to his suspension his rookie year, to his running off the bench to fight in Buffalo leading to last year's suspension, to reports he doesn't have a firm grasp of the playbook, to his sideline ambivalence  in the season finale, to the failure to pay the ticket and subsequent suspended license and brief incarceration,  to missing OTAs this year when he needs to be here to earn the coaches' trust, to me it's a much stronger argument that intangibles and not innate physical talent, is where Fournette is lacking as a player.

I'll never understand how they managed to take Fournette at #4 in what will likely be the deepest RB draft of all time. Probably the biggest non Gabbert draft mess up in Jaguars history given our needs and who was available at #4

(06-10-2019, 08:09 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]I'll never understand how they managed to take Fournette at #4 in what will likely be the deepest RB draft of all time. Probably the biggest non Gabbert draft mess up in Jaguars history given our needs and who was available at #4

Given the short yardage and ground game failures of seasons prior, I don't think anyone can deny RB was a need-even a major need.

Now whether that need/value trumped other positions at #4 overall is another matter altogether.

Getting the thread back to Ramsey, I just got the 2019 Athlon's today.

Among the first things I saw was a ranking of the top 50 players.

Ramsey was not there.

The one Jaguar that made the list is Calais Campbell, who came in at #15, and when the individual positions were ranked, Campbell ranked as the #1 4-3 DE.  (Ngakoue ranked 15th, egregiously behind Olivier freaking Vernon, who has had exactly ONE year of double digit sacks-11.5 back in 2011).

As for Ramsey, he ranked as the 4th overall CB behind Stephon Gilmore, Kyle Fuller and Patrick Peterson.  (Bouye ranked 14th).  

I look forward to Ngakoue and Ramsey having big years.

(06-10-2019, 08:09 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]I'll never understand how they managed to take Fournette at #4 in what will likely be the deepest RB draft of all time. Probably the biggest non Gabbert draft mess up in Jaguars history given our needs and who was available at #4

Fournette isn't even the 9th best RB...from that class!

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(06-10-2019, 08:01 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]So in 3 games against Pittsburgh, two of which were in Pittsburgh, one a playoff game, and one here with a dilapidated offensive line and little other help on offense, he mustered 385 yards, or 128 yards a game.  Keep in mind, Pittsburgh was 4th against the run in '17 and 7th last year.  That is average?!?

I didn't say those games were average, I said average (or even bad) players can and do have good games frequently. Fournette decidedly falls into that category right now.

Just go look at the list of perfect games. There have been 23 total in the 150+ year history history of baseball, and many of them have been by players that were average at best.

(06-10-2019, 07:58 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-10-2019, 07:35 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I bring up stats because I have no idea how we are judging these corners.

I refuse to believe there are 8 corners better than Ramsey. No chance.

How do you rank them?

Personally, I think Ramsey is the best corner in the league.

There is not a single corner with his speed, length and range in the league. Not to mention his best years are still ahead of him since he's still only 24 years old. 

Would you trade Ramsey straight up for any other corner in the league?

(06-11-2019, 08:10 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-10-2019, 08:09 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]I'll never understand how they managed to take Fournette at #4 in what will likely be the deepest RB draft of all time. Probably the biggest non Gabbert draft mess up in Jaguars history given our needs and who was available at #4

Fournette isn't even the 9th best RB...from that class!

Wow, he was in a stacked class. I'd put him 4th...

1. Christian McCaffery
   
2. Alvin Kamara
   
3. Joe Mixon
   
4. Leonard Fournette
   
5. Dalvin Cook
   
6. James Conner
   
7. Aaron Jones
   
8. Marlon Mack
   

He's easily better than the rest including Tarik Cohen, Kareem Hunt and Chris Carson.

(06-11-2019, 10:12 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-11-2019, 08:10 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Fournette isn't even the 9th best RB...from that class!

Wow, he was in a stacked class. I'd put him 4th...

1. Christian McCaffery
   
2. Alvin Kamara
   
3. Joe Mixon
   
4. Leonard Fournette
   
5. Dalvin Cook
   
6. James Conner
   
7. Aaron Jones
   
8. Marlon Mack
   

He's easily better than the rest including Tarik Cohen, Kareem Hunt and Chris Carson.

HAHAHAHAHAHA You think Fournette is better than Hunt?!

Good grief.

(06-11-2019, 10:12 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-11-2019, 08:10 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Fournette isn't even the 9th best RB...from that class!

Wow, he was in a stacked class. I'd put him 4th...

1. Christian McCaffery
   
2. Alvin Kamara
   
3. Joe Mixon
   
4. Leonard Fournette
   
5. Dalvin Cook
   
6. James Conner
   
7. Aaron Jones
   
8. Marlon Mack
   

He's easily better than the rest including Tarik Cohen, Kareem Hunt and Chris Carson.

I'd take every single one of them ahead of Fournette without hesitation, including Hunt, Carson, and Cohen.

* 44 PBU: 4th amongst CB
* 9 INT: T-5th amongst CB
* 193 tackles: T-6th amongst CB

Since he entered the league......

Jalen just tweeted that hes gonna ask for so much money next year they will have to put him on layaway



Jalen Ramsey‏Verified account @jalenramsey 40m40 minutes ago


“Imma ask for so much money, they have to put me on lay-away”
69 replies 303 retweets 1,189 likes

(06-11-2019, 12:42 PM)JAGFAN88 Wrote: [ -> ]Jalen just tweeted that hes gonna ask for so much money next year they will have to put him on layaway

“Imma ask for so much money, they have to put me on lay-away”

It's a Deion Sanders quote.  
Pretty funny stuff. Jalen has a good sense of humor.  
If he plays like I think he will this year, then he will ask to be the highest paid corner in the league. 

He'll probably be paid pretty darn close to that.  (next year)

Apparently Jalen has never heard of the Franchise Tag so we literally have him for a few more years.  

Heck, why stop there.  The CBA will be expiring and the players may go on strike so we can let that play out as well prior to spending.

(06-11-2019, 01:20 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Apparently Jalen has never heard of the Franchise Tag so we literally have him for a few more years.  

Heck, why stop there.  The CBA will be expiring and the players may go on strike so we can let that play out as well prior to spending.

The question w/ Jalen is whether he intends to hold out in 2020 or play under his 5th year extension figure. 

If he plays in 2020 w/o holding out, then they absolutely wait till the CBA is resolved to re-sign him. 

If he holds out prior to the 2020 season, they'll have some big decisions to make. 
I wouldn't be surprised if they go ahead and get his deal done next Spring in the neighborhood of 5 years at ~100 million total. 

Events of the 2019 season will tell them who to cut to make it happen. Usually works out that way. 
example: The Malik Jackson performance decline last year and the subsequent savings.

(06-11-2019, 01:20 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Apparently Jalen has never heard of the Franchise Tag so we literally have him for a few more years.  

Heck, why stop there.  The CBA will be expiring and the players may go on strike so we can let that play out as well prior to spending.

Yes tag him and he will refuse to play. REAL SMART. Glad you aren't running things.

(06-11-2019, 02:56 PM)Setsuna00 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-11-2019, 01:20 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Apparently Jalen has never heard of the Franchise Tag so we literally have him for a few more years.  

Heck, why stop there.  The CBA will be expiring and the players may go on strike so we can let that play out as well prior to spending.

Yes tag him and he will refuse to play. REAL SMART. Glad you aren't running things.

Says the guy(?) that wants to cut one of our best defensive free agents ever.

seems about right, he was not as good last year without an A+ pass rush helping him out

(06-11-2019, 05:25 PM)VondyP Wrote: [ -> ]seems about right, he was not as good last year without an A+ pass rush helping him out

The pass rush was still ranked very highly in pressures. (thought they took a step back in sacks)

Ramsey's drop-off was much more about him playing hurt.