This seems to be a hot button item for the Democrats this election cycle. I don't personally have any student debt but I am curious to hear from those who do and what your thoughts are on having it forgiven via the tax payer (who themselves may not have had the chance to go to college to have debt in the first place)?
(06-25-2019, 09:46 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]This seems to be a hot button item for the Democrats this election cycle. I don't personally have any student debt but I am curious to hear from those who do and what your thoughts are on having it forgiven via the tax payer (who themselves may not have had the chance to go to college to have debt in the first place)?
I'm in the Dave Ramsey party on this one. If we're going to forgive it then it must be that it's a bad idea, so along with the forgiveness we also have stop doing it. I personally am more concerned about the credential inflation that we're seeing in the business world. When college is available to everyone then a high school diploma won't get you in the door. Line-level Manager positions that require a Graduate degree aren't uncommon anymore, when it used to be that only the C-suite needed those. The entry costs for ambitious white collar workers is very high, and middle management wages don't make for much of an ROI in the first 20 years of employment.
(06-25-2019, 09:46 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]This seems to be a hot button item for the Democrats this election cycle. I don't personally have any student debt but I am curious to hear from those who do and what your thoughts are on having it forgiven via the tax payer (who themselves may not have had the chance to go to college to have debt in the first place)?
Some of us paid our own way through scholarships and jobs and managed to survive without student loan debt. The ex-wife's grad school, on the other hand...well...good thing my useless degree has translated itself into jobs that pay well.
My theory on higher education funding is as simple as it would be complicated. The basic idea is that everyone who graduates from high school is granted the cost of trade school tuition and materials. This amount is based on trade school tuitions in their area and on the field their trade school goes into. That grant is audited as part of taxes, and any funds unaccounted for or unused by age 24 are due and payable to the US government. If an individual chooses to go for a full four-year degree, they're still entitled to that trade school amount based upon the cost of trade schools in the area surrounding their university, but anything above that amount is on them to make up through scholarships and self-funding. Those who don't graduate high school qualify for nothing, given that a pulse is enough to get you through most high schools these days.
The idea that everyone is entitled to a four-year degree is silly. IMO, everyone is entitled to the basic education needed to be a productive member of society, and given that a skilled tradesman can make much, much more than a recent college grad in a world where no one wants to be a plumber, an electrician or a carpenter, a trade school is more than enough for that.
So who’s left holding the $1.6T bag once these loans are “forgiven”?
(06-25-2019, 09:51 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2019, 09:46 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]This seems to be a hot button item for the Democrats this election cycle. I don't personally have any student debt but I am curious to hear from those who do and what your thoughts are on having it forgiven via the tax payer (who themselves may not have had the chance to go to college to have debt in the first place)?
I'm in the Dave Ramsey party on this one. If we're going to forgive it then it must be that it's a bad idea, so along with the forgiveness we also have stop doing it. I personally am more concerned about the credential inflation that we're seeing in the business world. When college is available to everyone then a high school diploma won't get you in the door. Line-level Manager positions that require a Graduate degree aren't uncommon anymore, when it used to be that only the C-suite needed those. The entry costs for ambitious white collar workers is very high, and middle management wages don't make for much of an ROI in the first 20 years of employment.
Those of you who scrimped and saved to pay your way through college - suckers! You could have had some bureaucrat holding a gun to someone else's head to pay for it.
And since rich kids tend to be the ones who go to the more expensive colleges, this is mainly a handout for the rich.
The biggest problem, and the reason this is being discussed, is that there is no incentive to keep tuition down when the government is backstopping the loan defaults. The first step should be to make the colleges responsible for giving and collecting the repayments.
(06-25-2019, 10:15 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]So who’s left holding the $1.6T bag once these loans are “forgiven”?
The 1%. Duh!
If we're being honest. The votes that the Dems are chasing with this scheme aren't going to be from the ones that have the mental ability to attend college. On a more technical note, it's another targeted tax that won't pass the constitutional sniff test.
(06-25-2019, 10:15 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]So who’s left holding the $1.6T bag once these loans are “forgiven”?
The people that got the $1.3 Trillion in tax breaks.
Joking aside, I'm against the debt forgiveness. Too many parents have been irresponsible in allowing their kids to rack up debt (and co-signing) to going to private universities or out-of-state public universities when there were better or equivalent options in-state which is much cheaper and often partially subsidized by state scholarships like Bright Futures (Florida) or Zell Miller (Georgia), both of which can pay for at least 75%-100% of the students tuition.
If kids quit going to these expensive liberal arts colleges and getting degrees that have no application in the real job world, we wouldn't even be discussing this.
(06-25-2019, 10:15 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]So who’s left holding the $1.6T bag once these loans are “forgiven”?
You. Me. Presumably everyone except the people who took out these loans. I'm sure a loophole will be written in stating that as long as you're paying student loans, you're exempt from AOC's new "For United Children's Knowledge - University" bill.
Never went to college. Didn't need to. I do have friends though who went to college, [BLEEP] around and quickly moved back in with their parents. A job's a job in my eyes. As long as it pays the bills I never had any issues about rolling up my sleeves and working my way up from the bottom. Show up early, stay late, never turn down an extra shift and don't [BLEEP] up too many times and you should quickly see a pay increase and a potential promotion.
If that doesn't happen based on your needs? Take your experience and apply it elsewhere. Or lower your expectations. A trade school IMHO is more beneficial in the long run over an education that may turn it's back on you at some point if a school decides to close down or starts to remove certain programs, etc.
A friend of my wife is paying $100K in debt for "Chinese" alternative medicine (Acupuncture, home remedy salves, etc.) which also requires that they essentially translate a meaning in their field so they can apply it here in the Western world. I told her I thought it was a bad idea to begin with. She also ended up going up to Boulder, CO (Hipster town USA) and wasted roughly a year up there getting baked, hiking while high and chasing a boy that ended up moving to Kentucky that I also told her had zero interest in her. Then her school closed up there to boot.
She could have saved over $50K just by doing this [BLEEP] online and going out to Tallahassee just a few hours west of Jacksonville. Keep in mind. She's more of a family friend and just turned twenty-two. But what do I know? I am just a thirty-one year old "redneck". Womp...womp...womp.
The loans are not valid since Uncle Sugar didn't have the money to lend.
[quote pid='1218788' dateline='1561486811']
- Byron LeftTownThe loans are not valid since Uncle Sugar didn't have the money to lend.
[/quote]
Good luck with that.
So far the Democratic candidates have proposed:
Reparations for slavery.
Forgive all student debt.
Make college free.
Let everyone in prison vote.
Open borders. Don't believe me? Read this-
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elizabeth...e90da46c88
Raising taxes.
What's next? Forgive all mortgages? Give everyone a million dollars?
Forgiving student loans will add another TRILLION AND A HALF DOLLARS to the federal debt.
Oh, you already paid your loan? Screw you. You get nothing.
We have a MORON in the White House, but we have NO ALTERNATIVE. The Democrats have lost their minds.
Student Loan Debt forgiveness is just wrong on so many levels and is nothing more than buying votes. If this should ever happen it would do many things that would have a negative effect.
1. First of all it would de-value the education that a person gets. This means that a degree in Engineering or a law degree would be the same as a degree in "Women's Studies".
2. It would drive the cost of "education" higher. If the government (taxpayers) is paying for "education" then the cost will most certainly go up. Colleges and Universities will most certainly raise tuition prices even further.
3. It teaches young people that contracts don't mean anything. I've signed many contracts over my lifetime. Military service, loans for vehicles, mortgages, etc. Each time I had to fulfill my obligation. A student loan is no different.
4. You then have the problem of do you compensate people that were responsible enough and worked hard enough to pay off their student loans?
The bottom line is this is just a vote buying scheme aimed at millennials and young people.
The government has two ways it could "forgive" these loans.
One is to pay them off... spend taxpayer money.
The other is to go to the lenders and tell them, tough luck, here are orders cancelling these loans.
Both are bad ideas, for different reasons.
(06-25-2019, 03:23 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So far the Democratic candidates have proposed:
Reparations for slavery.
Forgive all student debt.
Make college free.
Let everyone in prison vote.
Open borders. Don't believe me? Read this- https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elizabeth...e90da46c88
Raising taxes.
What's next? Forgive all mortgages? Give everyone a million dollars?
Forgiving student loans will add another TRILLION AND A HALF DOLLARS to the federal debt.
Oh, you already paid your loan? Screw you. You get nothing.
We have a MORON in the White House, but we have NO ALTERNATIVE. The Democrats have lost their minds.
Regarding the part in bold. How would it be determined which black people are descendants of slaves and which are descendants of black people who actually owned slaves? What about those of us taxpayers that have no family history of ever owning slaves?
(06-25-2019, 09:51 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2019, 09:46 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]This seems to be a hot button item for the Democrats this election cycle. I don't personally have any student debt but I am curious to hear from those who do and what your thoughts are on having it forgiven via the tax payer (who themselves may not have had the chance to go to college to have debt in the first place)?
I'm in the Dave Ramsey party on this one. If we're going to forgive it then it must be that it's a bad idea, so along with the forgiveness we also have stop doing it. I personally am more concerned about the credential inflation that we're seeing in the business world. When college is available to everyone then a high school diploma won't get you in the door. Line-level Manager positions that require a Graduate degree aren't uncommon anymore, when it used to be that only the C-suite needed those. The entry costs for ambitious white collar workers is very high, and middle management wages don't make for much of an ROI in the first 20 years of employment.
Agreed, especially with bolded part.
(06-25-2019, 12:13 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]If we're being honest. The votes that the Dems are chasing with this scheme aren't going to be from the ones that have the mental ability to attend college. On a more technical note, it's another targeted tax that won't pass the constitutional sniff test.
I have some folks on my social media cheerleading for this.
They both have doctorates.
Granted, the degrees were from Nova Southeastern and FL Coastal School of Law.
These two are certainly smart enough to attend and finish college.
Just not smart about money.
(06-25-2019, 03:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2019, 09:51 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I'm in the Dave Ramsey party on this one. If we're going to forgive it then it must be that it's a bad idea, so along with the forgiveness we also have stop doing it. I personally am more concerned about the credential inflation that we're seeing in the business world. When college is available to everyone then a high school diploma won't get you in the door. Line-level Manager positions that require a Graduate degree aren't uncommon anymore, when it used to be that only the C-suite needed those. The entry costs for ambitious white collar workers is very high, and middle management wages don't make for much of an ROI in the first 20 years of employment.
Agreed, especially with bolded part.
(06-25-2019, 12:13 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]If we're being honest. The votes that the Dems are chasing with this scheme aren't going to be from the ones that have the mental ability to attend college. On a more technical note, it's another targeted tax that won't pass the constitutional sniff test.
I have some folks on my social media cheerleading for this.
They both have doctorates.
Granted, the degrees were from Nova Southeastern and FL Coastal School of Law.
These two are certainly smart enough to attend and finish college.
Just not smart about money.
There are exceptions to every scenario and I would consider this one not unheard of. Higher education has become very left leaning especially in the arts and sciences concentrations. These same people are the ones screaming about the National Debt. Always some kind of weird contradiction in beliefs or supports.
Anyways. This sums things up pretty well...
https://twitter.com/DanCrenshawTX/status...0914884608
(06-25-2019, 04:18 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2019, 03:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, especially with bolded part.
I have some folks on my social media cheerleading for this.
They both have doctorates.
Granted, the degrees were from Nova Southeastern and FL Coastal School of Law.
These two are certainly smart enough to attend and finish college.
Just not smart about money.
There are exceptions to every scenario and I would consider this one not unheard of. Higher education has become very left leaning especially in the arts and sciences concentrations. These same people are the ones screaming about the National Debt. Always some kind of weird contradiction in beliefs or supports.
Anyways. This sums things up pretty well...
https://twitter.com/DanCrenshawTX/status...0914884608
Dan Crenshaw, future POTUS.