Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

There have been no shortage of disappointments in our 1-3 start. However out of the ashes of that start, there is one thing that has Jaguars fans excited: the emergence of Fowler and Ngakoue as viable pass rushers. After 4 games, they have combined for 5 sacks two forced fumbles, and two other INTs. But are we getting too excited too soon for these guys?


Some additional context might be helpful.


Compared to their highly drafted predecessors, at this admittedly early stage, Fowler and Ngakoue are looking more like Brackens than they are Derrick Harvey.


After his 3 year career ended, Derrick Harvey notched a total of eight (8) sacks and zero forced fumbles, with a single season high of 3.5 sacks. After four games, Fowler has two sacks and forced two INTs. Ngakoue has 3 sacks and 3 forced fumbles.


Groves registered 2.5 sacks and 1 forced fumble his entire rookie year.


Lest you think I am simply picking on the disastrous 2008 draft class. Andre Branch suffers by comparison as well. Branch has been a little more productive than Harvey and Groves. Still active, Branch has 15 career sacks and 6 forced fumbles, including the memorable game changing FF, FR, and TD in the fiddy burger we put on Indy last year. But he only registered 1 sack, PD, FF & FR his rookie year, numbers already surpassed by Fowler and Ngakoue.


Yeah, they out paced the busts thus far, but how do they compare to the gold standard of Jaguars pass rushers, Tony Brackens? Despite starting only one game in 1996, Brackens produced a lot of game changing plays, registering seven (7) sacks, five (5) forced fumbles, three (3) FR, and an IN.  T Both Fowler and Ngakoue are on pace to meet or exceed Brackens' rookie year performance.


Now I urge caution. There is still a lot of football left to play. Opposing Tackles now have tape on these guys and down the road will have a better understanding of how to block them. Not only will Fowler and Ngakoue have to stay healthy and overcome the proverbial rookie wall, but they will have to learn how to study film and develop a greater array of moves and rushes to beat those tackles more consistently. As opposing offenses devise blocking schemes to neutralize their effectiveness, Wash will need to stay a step ahead.


Furthermore even if both Fowler and Ngakoue have sustained success over the course of their rookie seasons, it doesn't mean one or both will be longer-term answers to pass rushing DE. Bobby McCray had a ten sack season for us in 2006, then promptly fell off the face of the earth.


But I can't lie. It's exciting to see two pass rushing catalysts so far. I hope they can keep it up and improve in the games and seasons to come. Our ascent to our rightful place of dominance depends on it.


All stats courtesy of profootballreference.com

 

Edited for clarification.

I enjoy your threads Bullseye.  I will say that coaching being the key is the only area that tempers my enthusiasm.  We will know a lot coming out of the bye week.  This current staff has to demonstrate the ability to take advantage of preparation.

 

Maybe with the young guys they have been to easy going and have been stressing execution too much and these 2 weeks will let them work on preparation.  We can hope.

I don't think we are jumping the gun at all.   You can see the talent.   They are both fast, athletic big guys.   When you have that level of talent, all that's missing is production.   Now that we have production, the talent is confirmed.   If and when opponents start watching film and getting better prepared, it'll be up to the coaching staff to teach them some new moves, how to watch film, how to use one move to set up another move, etc. 

I remember when we pinned our pass rushing hopes on Aaron Kampman. In the short time he was healthy for us, I noticed how well he operated looping inside on stunts.


I am seeing that in Fowler. The INT against Luck was achieved by him looping inside on a stunt. I seem to recall a pressure against Baltimore on a stunt.

The defensive line in general had a field day in London against an O-line that featured 3 rookies. 

(5th rounder -Joe Haeg, 7th rounder Austin Blythe and 3rd rounder- LeRaven Clark)

 

While the Jags aren't likely to have it quite that easy getting pressure in many games this year, it was nice to see the front four looking the way they are supposed to look.

 

Fowler and Ngakoue were integral pieces and I have some confidence we'll see plenty more from them.  I expect them to struggle against some of the more seasoned tackles at times, but it's pretty plain to see they can be playmakers in this league.

 

Ngakoue's bend is clearly more effective than Fowler's somewhat limited arsenal at the moment, but I expect Fowler will adapt his game in due time.

Fowler also continues to show up in the run defense where he's definitely a factor.  

 

Overall I'm very encouraged by their progress. 

I like that fowler is used on a lot of different things... His motor is always going 100mph.. I think he will get sacks and turnovers later in games just by wearing down the offensive linemen.

Quote:The defensive line in general had a field day in London against an O-line that featured 3 rookies. 

(5th rounder -Joe Haeg, 7th rounder Austin Blythe and 3rd rounder- LeRaven Clark)

 

While the Jags aren't likely to have it quite that easy getting pressure in many games this year, it was nice to see the front four looking the way they are supposed to look.

 

Fowler and Ngakoue were integral pieces and I have some confidence we'll see plenty more from them.  I expect them to struggle against some of the more seasoned tackles at times, but it's pretty plain to see they can be playmakers in this league.

 

Ngakoue's bend is clearly more effective than Fowler's somewhat limited arsenal at the moment, but I expect Fowler will adapt his game in due time.

Fowler also continues to show up in the run defense where he's definitely a factor.  

 

Overall I'm very encouraged by their progress. 

The thing that encourages me about your first point is that in years past, a depleted or inexperienced offensive line was still able to neutralize our pass rush (see the 41-0 debacle in Seattle).  Not only that, but our DEs are, rookies too. (Ngakoue is; Fowler is for all intents and purposes since he didn't play last year)

Quote:The thing that encourages me about your first point is that in years past, a depleted or inexperienced offensive line was still able to neutralize our pass rush (see the 41-0 debacle in Seattle).  Not only that, but our DEs are, rookies too. (Ngakoue is; Fowler is for all intents and purposes since he didn't play last year)

Absolutely.  

They pass the eye test. They good. Defense is fixed. Run game first and quaterback secondly are the biggest problem this team has at the moment.

tldr: don't be happy about players playing well.

I think as the season goes on they will get even better. They are starting to understand the scheme and feed off the interior guys. Your also seeing their stamina get better. As communication and conditioning get better, we'll see the high motor keep on ticking away!

Quote:Defense is fixed.

San Diego says hello.

The Indy game was the perfect one to give the young DEs a confidence builder. 

 

Do I think it's premature to declare our pass rush fixed?  Yes.  But, I think that if you look at the investments made, and consider the youth we're starting at either end, it's not unrealistic to think things can only get better.  Barring injuries, I do think we've got the potential to have one of the better tandems in the league.  With all of the younger players contributing, this defense has the potential to be something truly special.  It's not there yet, and you're going to have stumbles like we saw in San Diego, but I think the arrow is pointed up for this group, and a lot of that has to do with the DE play.

I want to see our team progress to where we take players that fit and start doing our thing.  For example you know Pittsburg is going to draft linebackers to plug in to what they do.  I hope they keep the scheme sound and don't get wrapped up in the LEO, OTTO, Don't know thing.

I loved seeing the Defensive Line "moving" in this game. There always seemed to be a push up front and it just felt like the Indianapolis Offensive Line was fighting just to keep their head above water throughout the game. That being said, I do think that Ngakoue and Fowler are showing themselves to be NFL caliber players, something that most definitely cannot be said about the folks that Bullseye talked about. The team has some talent on the front four, I can't wait to see how they develop!

players usually get better, so I would say no we are not jumping the gun

 

McCray had 10 sacks but he was playing next to Big John Henderson and Stroud 

Quote:San Diego says hello.

Even the 2001 Ravens defense had a bad game, it happens

 

Not saying we are the Ravens of old but our defense is looking good long term

It is not too early to "get excited" about Fowler and Ngakoue. Calling them future Pro Bowlers, elite, stuff like that would be premature.

Fowler and Ngakoue are greatly helped by an interior line that includes Marks an Jackson. Hopefully Day will continue to shine as well.

Quote:I enjoy your threads Bullseye.  I will say that coaching being the key is the only area that tempers my enthusiasm.  We will know a lot coming out of the bye week.  This current staff has to demonstrate the ability to take advantage of preparation.

 

Maybe with the young guys they have been to easy going and have been stressing execution too much and these 2 weeks will let them work on preparation.  We can hope.

Quote:I want to see our team progress to where we take players that fit and start doing our thing.  For example you know Pittsburg is going to draft linebackers to plug in to what they do.  I hope they keep the scheme sound and don't get wrapped up in the LEO, OTTO, Don't know thing.

Thing is, unless the team's performance results in a winning record this year, it will be harder for the team to plug and play or draft and develop because a new coach will likely implement his own system.