Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Of the Jaguars last 10 #1 draft picks only one can be considered a star in the league and now we’re going to trade him.  Based upon that track record, any picks we get get for him will likely result in mediocre draft picks. Hope I’m wrong.

(09-18-2019, 06:15 PM)laro Wrote: [ -> ]Of the Jaguars last 10 #1 draft picks only one can be considered a star in the league and now we’re going to trade him.  Based upon that track record, any picks we get get for him will likely result in mediocre draft picks. Hope I’m wrong.

I think that you have to reserve judgment on Josh Allen but in the main you make a great point.  In reality, the class of 2016 is certainly the best draft in team history and it is going to be hard to hit on the three premium defensive positions in succession with premium pro bowl caliber, and in Jalen's case generational, talent.  That group should have served as a foundation for this teams defense for the better part of a decade but now it looks like the Best corner in the league and one of the leagues best pass rushers won't make it past their rookie contracts because we have to pay our 4th receiver (Lee making 8.5 a year) and our center and Guard who can't get two yards on a two point try for the game.  This is just sad mismanagement of resources.

(09-18-2019, 06:15 PM)laro Wrote: [ -> ]Of the Jaguars last 10 #1 draft picks only one can be considered a star in the league and now we’re going to trade him.  Based upon that track record, any picks we get get for him will likely result in mediocre draft picks. Hope I’m wrong.

How many #1 draft picks in the last 10 years are "stars" in this league?

I just dont get the logic of trading an elite player so you can get draft picks in the hope you can pick an elite player.

The damning thing for me, how few guys sign second contracts with us. Either by leaving or not being good enough, we haven't had enough of a solid core and depth of quality players so we can draft or FA a few specific positions to keep us competing.

(09-18-2019, 06:42 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2019, 06:15 PM)laro Wrote: [ -> ]Of the Jaguars last 10 #1 draft picks only one can be considered a star in the league and now we’re going to trade him.  Based upon that track record, any picks we get get for him will likely result in mediocre draft picks. Hope I’m wrong.

How many #1 draft picks in the last 10 years are "stars" in this league?

When he says #1 draft pick, I believe he means first rounder.

And there are PLENTY of first rounders who are stars.

(09-18-2019, 07:16 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2019, 06:42 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]How many #1 draft picks in the last 10 years are "stars" in this league?

When he says #1 draft pick, I believe he means first rounder.

And there are PLENTY of first rounders who are stars.

I assume jib realized that. The context was the Jags' last ten #1 picks. We've never had a #1 overall pick, let alone ten in a row. We were bad, but not that bad.

Anyway, jib did nothing to diminish the OP's point.

(09-18-2019, 07:34 PM)Jagsfan4life9/28/82 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2019, 07:16 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]When he says #1 draft pick, I believe he means first rounder.

And there are PLENTY of first rounders who are stars.

I assume jib realized that. The context was the Jags' last ten #1 picks. We've never had a #1 overall pick, let alone ten in a row. We were bad, but not that bad.

Anyway, jib did nothing to diminish the OP's point.

I assume he understood it too so I’m not sure the point he’s trying to make.

(09-18-2019, 07:45 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2019, 07:34 PM)Jagsfan4life9/28/82 Wrote: [ -> ]I assume jib realized that. The context was the Jags' last ten #1 picks. We've never had a #1 overall pick, let alone ten in a row. We were bad, but not that bad.

Anyway, jib did nothing to diminish the OP's point.

I assume he understood it too so I’m not sure the point he’s trying to make.

Perhaps he's hung up on the word star. Like he he differentiates between star and great player. Whatever the case, the OP is correct. We've hit on one first round pick in some time and it's looking like we're going to trade him away.

(09-18-2019, 06:15 PM)laro Wrote: [ -> ]Of the Jaguars last 10 #1 draft picks only one can be considered a star in the league and now we’re going to trade him.  Based upon that track record, any picks we get get for him will likely result in mediocre draft picks. Hope I’m wrong.

If only we had a five sided coin, we would double our first round hits.

Josh Allen could be a star player too.

Caldwell's record seems to be 2 for 7 if Josh Allen works out, which isn't too bad.

Fournette and Bryan don't look so good, though. Major disappointments from both of them. Imagine having Mahomes or Jamal Adams instead of Fournette. Or even Watson or Lattimore. Imagine Ramsey and Lattimore together. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but I'm not a huge fan of taking an RB in the Top 5.

(09-18-2019, 08:52 PM)The Eleventh Doctor Wrote: [ -> ]Josh Allen could be a star player too.

Caldwell's record seems to be 2 for 7 if Josh Allen works out, which isn't too bad.

Fournette and Bryan don't look so good, though. Major disappointments from both of them. Imagine having Mahomes or Jamal Adams instead of Fournette. Or even Watson or Lattimore. Imagine Ramsey and Lattimore together. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but I'm not a huge fan of taking an RB in the Top 5.

2 out of 7 considering how high the non Bryan picks were is pretty pretty bad. Especially since so many of them were the first players at their position taken. It has to look worse when you have your pick of every single QB or RB in the draft and you miss that badly.

(09-18-2019, 08:52 PM)The Eleventh Doctor Wrote: [ -> ]Josh Allen could be a star player too.

Caldwell's record seems to be 2 for 7 if Josh Allen works out, which isn't too bad.

Fournette and Bryan don't look so good, though.  Major disappointments from both of them.  Imagine having Mahomes or Jamal Adams instead of Fournette.  Or even Watson or Lattimore.  Imagine Ramsey and Lattimore together.  Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but I'm not a huge fan of taking an RB in the Top 5.

The only pick Caldwell has had in 7 years not in the top 10 was #29 Bryan. Allen went #7 and then all the other picks were top 5 picks lol. How are they now?

Joeckel- out of the league?
BOAT- back up QB
Fowler- Big time week 1, 2 sacks and 3 QB hits... maybe it was coaching? Maturity? Maybe he just turned the corner? Lets see how the season plays out, he may turn out GOOD.
Ramsey- superstar
Fournette- I kind of gotta fault Coughlin on this, seems like such a Coughlin pick to me... total bust.
Bryan- #29 overall- the goal would be a solid starter. Bryan was a total project, but those comparisons to JJ Watt... I mean c'mon now... Watt boxjumped 62 inches ... Enough said. STILL though... a wait and see project.
Allen- He good

(09-18-2019, 06:56 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I just dont get the logic of trading an elite player so you can get draft picks in the hope you can pick an elite player.

The damning thing for me, how few guys sign second contracts with us. Either by leaving or not being good enough, we haven't had enough of a solid core and depth of quality players so we can draft or FA a few specific positions to keep us competing.

I agree completely.

People here act as if superstar caliber players grow on trees.

(09-18-2019, 11:10 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2019, 06:56 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]I just dont get the logic of trading an elite player so you can get draft picks in the hope you can pick an elite player.

The damning thing for me, how few guys sign second contracts with us. Either by leaving or not being good enough, we haven't had enough of a solid core and depth of quality players so we can draft or FA a few specific positions to keep us competing.

I agree completely.

People here act as if superstar caliber players grow on trees.

Not just here. It's everywhere. Whenever a player is up for trade the talk is, "How many picks are enough?" It's in the media, fans, etc.. I HATE that! Wish it was more like NBA trades, player for player. I'd love to see those trades in the NFL, but they just don't really happen. Especially midseason. For a superstar like Ramsey I'd want a superstar player back or a star player with some picks. Either way, I want a damn player back.

(09-18-2019, 10:45 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]The only pick Caldwell has had in 7 years not in the top 10 was #29 Bryan. Allen went #7 and then all the other picks were top 5 picks lol. How are they now?

Joeckel- out of the league?
BOAT- back up QB
Fowler- Big time week 1, 2 sacks and 3 QB hits... maybe it was coaching? Maturity? Maybe he just turned the corner? Lets see how the season plays out, he may turn out GOOD.
Ramsey- superstar
Fournette- I kind of gotta fault Coughlin on this, seems like such a Coughlin pick to me... total bust.
Bryan- #29 overall- the goal would be a solid starter. Bryan was a total project, but those comparisons to JJ Watt... I mean c'mon now... Watt boxjumped 62 inches ... Enough said. STILL though... a wait and see project.
Allen- He good

But we've had unfortunate first round picks throughout our history.

Under TC

Boselli-HOF caliber player.  'nuff said
Stewart-A decent guy, far from great
Hardy-I thought a good pick, not a great pick.
Wynn-an awful pick, though not considered a bust by most for whatever reason
Bryant-My lating memory of him was him getting beat deep in the AFCCG.
Soward-My stomach can not bear reliving this pick
Stroud0gret pick
Henderson-great pick

Under Shack

Leftwich-perhaps the most reviled player in team history
Reggie Williams-Complete bust
Matt Jones-Complete Bust
Marcedes Lewis-a good player not as productive as he should have been
Reggie Nelson-good athletic ability, bot viewed as not very smart.  Cut and went on to a productive career with Cincy
Derrick Harvey-ugh

Under Gene Smith

Eugene Monroe-one of the more overrated players in team history
Tyson Alualu-good guy, horrible pick
Blaine Gabbert-Horrible pick
Justin Blackmon-perhaps the most disappointing picks in Jaguars history.  So much talent, so many demons.  Breaks my heart.

But our timing is always off when it comes to picking QBs.

Our commitment to BL precluded spending a pick on Big Ben the next year, and Aaron Rodgers in 2005.


We drafted Gabbert over J.J. Watt.

Bortles?

Fournette over Watson and Mahomes because of Bortles?

(09-18-2019, 11:24 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-18-2019, 10:45 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]The only pick Caldwell has had in 7 years not in the top 10 was #29 Bryan. Allen went #7 and then all the other picks were top 5 picks lol. How are they now?

Joeckel- out of the league?
BOAT- back up QB
Fowler- Big time week 1, 2 sacks and 3 QB hits... maybe it was coaching? Maturity? Maybe he just turned the corner? Lets see how the season plays out, he may turn out GOOD.
Ramsey- superstar
Fournette- I kind of gotta fault Coughlin on this, seems like such a Coughlin pick to me... total bust.
Bryan- #29 overall- the goal would be a solid starter. Bryan was a total project, but those comparisons to JJ Watt... I mean c'mon now... Watt boxjumped 62 inches ... Enough said. STILL though... a wait and see project.
Allen- He good

But we've had unfortunate first round picks throughout our history.

Under TC

Boselli-HOF caliber player.  'nuff said
Stewart-A decent guy, far from great
Hardy-I thought a good pick, not a great pick.
Wynn-an awful pick, though not considered a bust by most for whatever reason
Bryant-My lating memory of him was him getting beat deep in the AFCCG.
Soward-My stomach can not bear reliving this pick
Stroud0gret pick
Henderson-great pick

Under Shack

Leftwich-perhaps the most reviled player in team history
Reggie Williams-Complete bust
Matt Jones-Complete Bust
Marcedes Lewis-a good player not as productive as he should have been
Reggie Nelson-good athletic ability, bot viewed as not very smart.  Cut and went on to a productive career with Cincy
Derrick Harvey-ugh

Under Gene Smith

Eugene Monroe-one of the more overrated players in team history
Tyson Alualu-good guy, horrible pick
Blaine Gabbert-Horrible pick
Justin Blackmon-perhaps the most disappointing picks in Jaguars history.  So much talent, so many demons.  Breaks my heart.

But our timing is always off when it comes to picking QBs.

Our commitment to BL precluded spending a pick on Big Ben the next year, and Aaron Rodgers in 2005.


We drafted Gabbert over J.J. Watt.

Bortles?

Fournette over Watson and Mahomes because of Bortles?

We have, I agree. I do think it's important to consider where the player was drafted in the 1st round though. The point most are making is that Caldwell hasn't done very well picking inside the top 5 or I guess top 10 with the exception of Ramsey and likely Allen. I still think there is a chance Fowler turns into something, we will see. 

Other Jags players taken in top 10?

Boselli
Hardy
Taylor
Henderson
Leftwich
Williams
Harvey
Monroe
Alualu
Gabbert
Blackmon
Joeckel
Bortles 
Fowler
Ramsey
Fournette
Allen

That's a whopping 17 drafts we have picked in the top 10. 17 out of 25 years!!!! That's atrocious! There is a direct reason we keep picking there, and it's because we are batting terrible at picking star players top 10. 

Bottom line, I do NOT feel comfortable trading our best player for picks. History has said enough.

So, another alternate titled "our GM is an idiot and shouldn't even be allowed to pick his nose" thread.

Caldwell has got to go.

Whatever picks we get for Ramsey, I do not want Coughlin or Caldwell to have anything to do with those picks.

It's time to clean house if we lose tomorrow.