(12-02-2019, 06:56 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 03:04 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't like Robinson or Taylor when we drafted them, but I was told I was wrong. Both have slow feet and bad footwork. Taylor just gets shoved around. I am a firm believer that OT, especially LT is the cornerstone of the team and must be taken in round 1. There is a shortage of really good LT's in the NFL and the truly good ones go fast.If you think you've found one in round 2, that is a guy 31 other teams found major flaws in. If you have problems at LT especially, you need to draft one with a first round selection. Right now, I'd definitely draft one in round 1. My personal choice would be to take DT Derrick Brown with our first selection in round 1 and take OT Trey Adams with the other.
So if Josh Allen wasn't there at #7 last year and we took Taylor at #7, he would be a better player because 31 teams did not pass on him?
No. That would've made us even stupider than we already are. He wasn't worthy of a first round pick, period! It's a simple concept. He isn't good.
On the radio today Leon Searcy said Norwell is like Jimmy Two Times in ‘Goodfellas’, “He’ll get you two penalties.”
I don’t know if any of you guys follow Uche Nwaneri’s channel on YouTube (The Observant Lineman), but he is NOT a fan of our Oline as it’s currently made up.
I think from a coordinator standpoint some things can be done to help the line. Where they struggle is in drop back. Taylor and Robinson struggle in their sets sometimes. Robinson to me false starts a lot, but it just doesn't get called all the time. But to me one thing Flip can do is add more Rollouts. Get your QB on the move and away from the wash so he doesn't have to worry about getting killed every time. Eventually you have to have some drop back passing but I think getting your QB on the move early can help out. We should have a designed RO every 10 yards we need. I think it would go a long way to helping the Tackles as they struggle with their pass sets sometimes.
I'm a Jaguars fan through and through but for the last few years for whatever reason I've kinda watched the dumpster fire that was the 49ers (probably because they reminded me a lot of Jacksonville in the way the front office screwed everything up) and draft after draft was so incredibly boring. Buckner, McGlinchey, and whoever else. Just a bunch of boring defensive linemen one after another. But wow is it paying off now and their defensive line is actually fun to watch. I'd love to see Jacksonville do something similar with their O-line. Just pump tons of resources into it and protect Minshew like he's a priceless family heirloom out there. I also REALLY wish we could've somehow gotten Hockenson as well in that last draft.
We obviously need to spend at least 2 picks in the first two rounds on offensive line. I wonder how much of Linder's poor play is him trying to make up for the guys on either side, but I haven't watched enough to know.
We've also gotta get a nose tackle.
There's some big sloppies at NT you can get on day two and three next year. Marvin Wilson probably a RD2/RD3 option. Rashard Lawrence probably same range. Leki Fotu & Benito Jones probably early 4RD.
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(12-02-2019, 07:55 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]There's some big sloppies at NT you can get on day two and three next year. Marvin Wilson probably a RD2/RD3 option. Rashard Lawrence probably same range. Leki Fotu & Benito Jones probably early 4RD.
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Wilson isn't that good against the run. I don't think he's be much of an upgrade and Lawrence is more of a 5 technique/3 technique. I'm not as high on Fotu as some. He's good against the run, but he offers little in pass rush, so he would have to constantly be subbed out on passing downs. I prefer someone a bit more well rounded. Benito Jones is a very intriguing guy. If we cannot land Derrick Brown, he would be my second choice. He's a good run plugger and a solid interior pass rusher as well, although my real backup plan in case we cannot draft Derrick Brown, is to go after Jordan Phillips in free agency. He's a load at 6'6" 341 lbs.
(12-02-2019, 09:09 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 07:55 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]There's some big sloppies at NT you can get on day two and three next year. Marvin Wilson probably a RD2/RD3 option. Rashard Lawrence probably same range. Leki Fotu & Benito Jones probably early 4RD.
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Wilson isn't that good against the run. I don't think he's be much of an upgrade and Lawrence is more of a 5 technique/3 technique. I'm not as high on Fotu as some. He's good against the run, but he offers little in pass rush, so he would have to constantly be subbed out on passing downs. I prefer someone a bit more well rounded. Benito Jones is a very intriguing guy. If we cannot land Derrick Brown, he would be my second choice. He's a good run plugger and a solid interior pass rusher as well, although my real backup plan in case we cannot draft Derrick Brown, is to go after Jordan Phillips in free agency. He's a load at 6'6" 341 lbs.
I like Phillips. I think he'll stay with the Bills though because they have the money to pay him.
(12-03-2019, 03:36 PM)JAllen#41 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 09:09 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Wilson isn't that good against the run. I don't think he's be much of an upgrade and Lawrence is more of a 5 technique/3 technique. I'm not as high on Fotu as some. He's good against the run, but he offers little in pass rush, so he would have to constantly be subbed out on passing downs. I prefer someone a bit more well rounded. Benito Jones is a very intriguing guy. If we cannot land Derrick Brown, he would be my second choice. He's a good run plugger and a solid interior pass rusher as well, although my real backup plan in case we cannot draft Derrick Brown, is to go after Jordan Phillips in free agency. He's a load at 6'6" 341 lbs.
I like Phillips. I think he'll stay with the Bills though because they have the money to pay him.
We'll have plenty of money once we make some cuts. Dareus alone will save us $20 million. Marqise Lee saves us another $5 million. Jake Ryan saves us another $6 million, Geoff Swaim another $4 million. There's $35 million in savings and three of those guys were used little to none this year. We could easily sign Phillips.
Regarding the Jags O-Line heading into 2020 - I feel they must attempt an upgrade at LT and land at least one grade A guard.
I'm fine developing Taylor another year at RT. Give him help when necessary and see if he comes around with footwork and penalties.
I feel we've already done that with Cam at LT now and it's time to upgrade and hope he can become a success at guard.
At guard - they must decide whether they want to cut Norwell or not. (I would. He's good but makes too many errors for the $$) Guard acquisitions will be affected by that decision.
Regardless - they need a better RG - so a top notch guard needs to be part of the draft or FA plan. Two if they cut Norwell.
Hiring an Oline coach who wasn't god awful at multiple stops would be a good plan of action. Warhop has been thoroughly unimpressive
(12-04-2019, 12:30 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Hiring an Oline coach who wasn't god awful at multiple stops would be a good plan of action. Warhop has been thoroughly unimpressive
I think it's imperative they land an O-Line coach that can develop these guys at a higher level, instill better snap discipline, and also mesh well with the intent of the coordinator's scheme.
There could be quite a bit of change coming offensively and the new OL coach will need to be able to prepare these guys and help determine where some of them will be of most use positionally. It's a very important hire given the anticipated effort to upgrade the line.
(12-04-2019, 12:30 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Hiring an Oline coach who wasn't god awful at multiple stops would be a good plan of action. Warhop has been thoroughly unimpressive
We usually make those guys HC
(12-01-2019, 10:49 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2019, 10:39 PM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]Brandon Linder sucks. No command over our front line and a bad attitude.
All the more reason to move him to RG and select Biadasz in RD1 with the Rams pick or try and trade back and land him since it's not the 'sexy" pick for some of you.
Biadasz can play in the NFL. He's been awesome for the Badgers. Taylor has fun running behind him. He's also handled many pass blocking situations one-on-one.
Ideally they land him with the Rams pick though. Maybe land Trey Washington or Tristan Wirfs to man the LT position early. Just depends. If they never win another game they could be in prime position to land Andrew Thomas. Which would be HUGE.
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^ I'm all for drafting lineman from Wisconsin. Wisconsin still loves to run the football and lineman from there just seem to be more prepared to transition succesfully into the NFL.
(12-04-2019, 12:45 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-04-2019, 12:30 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Hiring an Oline coach who wasn't god awful at multiple stops would be a good plan of action. Warhop has been thoroughly unimpressive
I think it's imperative they land an O-Line coach that can develop these guys at a higher level, instill better snap discipline, and also mesh well with the intent of the coordinator's scheme.
There could be quite a bit of change coming offensively and the new OL coach will need to be able to prepare these guys and help determine where some of them will be of most use positionally. It's a very important hire given the anticipated effort to upgrade the line.
I think my big critique of our current line is I don't see a cohesive unit and obv the penalties are back breakers. 2017 was an extremely cohesive unit and that allowed it to play better than the some of its parts.
Also yeah who knows what we will run next year on offense, if we want to run say an outside zone offense, I'd probably argue Cam,Norwell, Linder and Taylor are poor fits for that. Have no idea how much oline coaches get paid but I'd aim to go well over the top to pay the best available guy, just think of it as a cheap FA signing which will yield tons of results
(12-04-2019, 12:45 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-04-2019, 12:30 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Hiring an Oline coach who wasn't god awful at multiple stops would be a good plan of action. Warhop has been thoroughly unimpressive
I think it's imperative they land an O-Line coach that can develop these guys at a higher level, instill better snap discipline, and also mesh well with the intent of the coordinator's scheme.
There could be quite a bit of change coming offensively and the new OL coach will need to be able to prepare these guys and help determine where some of them will be of most use positionally. It's a very important hire given the anticipated effort to upgrade the line.
I think my big critique of our current line is I don't see a cohesive unit and obv the penalties are back breakers. 2017 was an extremely cohesive unit and that allowed it to play better than the some of its parts.
Also yeah who knows what we will run next year on offense, if we want to run say an outside zone offense, I'd probably argue Cam,Norwell, Linder and Taylor are poor fits for that. Have no idea how much oline coaches get paid but I'd aim to go well over the top to pay the best available guy, just think of it as a cheap FA signing which will yield tons of results
(12-01-2019, 06:20 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The team just needs to start drafting the best player with every pick, don't make picks based on perceived need, just start trying to get the best players. Picking mediocre players to occupy depth chat slow is how you have decades of futility like the Jaguars have done.
So really I guess the first move the Jaguars need to make is getting a GM that can actually evaluate talent and pick players without thinking about perceived needs.
This is a Colin Cowherd analogy:
If my wife sends me to the store to get supplies to make dinner and I come home with a rake, a bag of sugar and a package of black licorice, just because it was a better buy, that doesn’t make much sense. At some point, you have to have a list of needs and go BPA at your needs
(12-04-2019, 01:22 PM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2019, 06:20 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The team just needs to start drafting the best player with every pick, don't make picks based on perceived need, just start trying to get the best players. Picking mediocre players to occupy depth chat slow is how you have decades of futility like the Jaguars have done.
So really I guess the first move the Jaguars need to make is getting a GM that can actually evaluate talent and pick players without thinking about perceived needs.
This is a Colin Cowherd analogy:
If my wife sends me to the store to get supplies to make dinner and I come home with a rake, a bag of sugar and a package of black licorice, just because it was a better buy, that doesn’t make much sense. At some point, you have to have a list of needs and go BPA at your needs
Don't bother, tried explain that need and BPA are built into every pick for years