Everyone always says this is one pick that Dave got right. I have to disagree. As good as Ramsey was for those couple years, as to this point it was just another missed pick by Dave. We could of gotten our franchise LT with Stanley or Tunsil. A franchise LT is much more important than a corner. With that said, we got 2 1sts and a 4th so this could change depending on who those picks turn out to be. But 2 franchise LTs and 2 of the best LTs in the game today were sitting there and we took a corner.
You don't pass up a franchise LT if one is sitting there and you are in need of one. It's the most important position behind QB with pass rusher a close 3rd. Looking back Dave once again did miss on that 1st round pick. As said though, it could change in the future for us though depending how though picks turn out that we got for Ramsey
Was it Caldwell's fault that they had to trade away Ramsey though? Either selection would have been ideal at that time. Tunsil also shot himself in the foot on opening night after the gas mask footage was leaked.
I think at that time he did what was best for this football team on all levels of that defense. He landed a talented CB, a prospect declared as the most true pure shut down cornerback since Revis. He landed Jack, another talented OLB prospect at that time that could have just as easily been a top ten selection on his own. And he absolutely stole Ngakoue in RD3.
Again though, is it Caldwell's fault that:
A. Ramsey was traded
B. Jack was extended and moved to ILB after splashing the most at OLB
C. Ngakoue hasn't seen a new deal yet
All of those moves so far reek of Coughlin's meddling. Not Caldwell's. . .
And believe me. I have HAMMERED him and this front office for some of these recent blunders with the roster and coaching staff but a lot of reports coming out now here locally all seem to indicate that it's a chasm between Coughlin and Marrone more than anything and Caldwell's pretty much caught in the middle of it.
(12-07-2019, 12:48 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Was it Caldwell's fault that they had to trade away Ramsey though? Either selection would have been ideal at that time. Tunsil also shot himself in the foot on opening night after the gas mask footage was leaked.
I think at that time he did what was best for this football team on all levels of that defense. He landed a talented CB, a prospect declared as the most true pure shut down cornerback since Revis. He landed Jack, another talented OLB prospect at that time that could have just as easily been a top ten selection on his own. And he absolutely stole Ngakoue in RD3.
Again though, is it Caldwell's fault that:
A. Ramsey was traded
B. Jack was extended and moved to ILB after splashing the most at OLB
C. Ngakoue hasn't seen a new deal yet
All of those moves so far reek of Coughlin's meddling. Not Caldwell's. . .
And believe me. I have HAMMERED him and this front office for some of these recent blunders with the roster and coaching staff but a lot of reports coming out now here locally all seem to indicate that it's a chasm between Coughlin and Marrone more than anything and Caldwell's pretty much caught in the middle of it.
Not sure if it was Caldwells fault that he was traded. But if it was, it was one decision he got right being we got 2 1sts, a 4th, and Ramsey wants 20 mil a year. No corner that is in the game right now is worth that. That video did come up with Tunsil but he has been less of a problem than Ramsey has. I cant think of any issues with Tunsil actually.
Drafting a top 5 corner over an LT isn't a miss in the modern era.
I know you wanted Hargreaves over Ramsey but Jalen was a can't miss stud prospect and has lived up to that.
Also Tunsil has had some bad years and isn't a top 5 LT. He's a good young tackle but hasn't been good enough to warrant the draft capital spent on him in the trade. He's above average for sure though
Your anti Ramsey slant has been hilarious to watch through the years
He hurt you so bad dude. Give it up. Ramsey more than lived up to his draft status.
He doesn’t play for the Jags so let’s move this to the League section.
(12-07-2019, 01:38 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-07-2019, 12:48 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Was it Caldwell's fault that they had to trade away Ramsey though? Either selection would have been ideal at that time. Tunsil also shot himself in the foot on opening night after the gas mask footage was leaked.
I think at that time he did what was best for this football team on all levels of that defense. He landed a talented CB, a prospect declared as the most true pure shut down cornerback since Revis. He landed Jack, another talented OLB prospect at that time that could have just as easily been a top ten selection on his own. And he absolutely stole Ngakoue in RD3.
Again though, is it Caldwell's fault that:
A. Ramsey was traded
B. Jack was extended and moved to ILB after splashing the most at OLB
C. Ngakoue hasn't seen a new deal yet
All of those moves so far reek of Coughlin's meddling. Not Caldwell's. . .
And believe me. I have HAMMERED him and this front office for some of these recent blunders with the roster and coaching staff but a lot of reports coming out now here locally all seem to indicate that it's a chasm between Coughlin and Marrone more than anything and Caldwell's pretty much caught in the middle of it.
Not sure if it was Caldwells fault that he was traded. But if it was, it was one decision he got right being we got 2 1sts, a 4th, and Ramsey wants 20 mil a year. No corner that is in the game right now is worth that. That video did come up with Tunsil but he has been less of a problem than Ramsey has. I cant think of any issues with Tunsil actually.
We won't know if it was the right decision or not until we see exactly what the current (God help us) or new regime end up doing with those selections from the Rams. Ramsey is already a well known commodity. While I'll agree that the salary cap figures would have been an issue, despite Mr. Khan publicly declaring that he would literally break the bank for him, he was and still is a pretty damn good football player that you'll be hard pressed to find many pundits argue that he's not.
You could argue he's not as good as say Stephon Gilmore in New England at the moment. But Ramsey is still relatively young and still hasn't really reached nor hit his prime yet. I think once he matures (if he ever does, he may be stuck in permanent diva mode like Owens was at this position) he'll continue to be the player that he's always been. Just more complete.
The front office could screw the pooch over these next two years with the draft picks and take risky selections or reach at positions on a colossal level that makes them look foolish or ultimately makes the deal end up looking like a wash on the highly probable outcome of Ramsey moving the hell on out of Los Angeles if they don't start winning football games.
As NH3 famously coins around here. Time will tell. . .
This is hilariously wrong. God awful bad. Just sad.
(12-07-2019, 01:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Drafting a top 5 corner over an LT isn't a miss in the modern era.
I know you wanted Hargreaves over Ramsey but Jalen was a can't miss stud prospect and has lived up to that.
Also Tunsil has had some bad years and isn't a top 5 LT. He's a good young tackle but hasn't been good enough to warrant the draft capital spent on him in the trade. He's above average for sure though
Your anti Ramsey slant has been hilarious to watch through the years
Who I wanted is irrelevant. Even in the modern area LT is more important than corner. Also Tunsil and Stanley are both top 5 tackles in this league.
A player can be good but just because hes good doesnt mean it was the right pick. Fournette is good but it doesn't mean he was the right pick. We should of drafted Mahomes or Cmc
(12-07-2019, 12:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone always says this is one pick that Dave got right. I have to disagree. As good as Ramsey was for those couple years, as to this point it was just another missed pick by Dave. We could of gotten our franchise LT with Stanley or Tunsil. A franchise LT is much more important than a corner. With that said, we got 2 1sts and a 4th so this could change depending on who those picks turn out to be. But 2 franchise LTs and 2 of the best LTs in the game today were sitting there and we took a corner.
You don't pass up a franchise LT if one is sitting there and you are in need of one. It's the most important position behind QB with pass rusher a close 3rd. Looking back Dave once again did miss on that 1st round pick. As said though, it could change in the future for us though depending how though picks turn out that we got for Ramsey
Tunsil is doing as much for the Fish this year as Ramsey is for the Jags. 
And given the Jags failure to develop any offensive linemen since 2013 there is no guarantee that either Stanley or Tunsil would be any better than Robinson had we drafted one of them.
(12-07-2019, 06:13 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (12-07-2019, 12:35 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone always says this is one pick that Dave got right. I have to disagree. As good as Ramsey was for those couple years, as to this point it was just another missed pick by Dave. We could of gotten our franchise LT with Stanley or Tunsil. A franchise LT is much more important than a corner. With that said, we got 2 1sts and a 4th so this could change depending on who those picks turn out to be. But 2 franchise LTs and 2 of the best LTs in the game today were sitting there and we took a corner.
You don't pass up a franchise LT if one is sitting there and you are in need of one. It's the most important position behind QB with pass rusher a close 3rd. Looking back Dave once again did miss on that 1st round pick. As said though, it could change in the future for us though depending how though picks turn out that we got for Ramsey
Tunsil is doing as much for the Fish this year as Ramsey is for the Jags.
And given the Jags failure to develop any offensive linemen since 2013 there is no guarantee that either Stanley or Tunsil would be any better than Robinson had we drafted one of them.
Tunsil has been improving since the trade to the tinhorns though. He's 2nd right now in the NFL with 13 penalties held against him at his position though. He's given up 3 sacks this year with 2 of those coming from the season opener when he still played in Miami.
He's not terrible by any means. But he's not elite just yet. He's not Orlando Pace or Joe Thomas out there.
Also doesn't hurt the fact that he has Watson back there that dodges defenders like Neo dodges bullets from the Matrix.
(12-07-2019, 03:59 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-07-2019, 01:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Drafting a top 5 corner over an LT isn't a miss in the modern era.
I know you wanted Hargreaves over Ramsey but Jalen was a can't miss stud prospect and has lived up to that.
Also Tunsil has had some bad years and isn't a top 5 LT. He's a good young tackle but hasn't been good enough to warrant the draft capital spent on him in the trade. He's above average for sure though
Your anti Ramsey slant has been hilarious to watch through the years
Who I wanted is irrelevant. Even in the modern area LT is more important than corner. Also Tunsil and Stanley are both top 5 tackles in this league.
A player can be good but just because hes good doesnt mean it was the right pick. Fournette is good but it doesn't mean he was the right pick. We should of drafted Mahomes or Cmc
Tyron Smith, Trent Williams, Terron Armstead, Lane Johnson, Ryan Ramzcyk have all been better than Tunsil over the last few years. So have Bakhtiari and Andrew Withworth, although Whitworth has regressed this year. Tunsil is a fringe top 10 tackle in the NFL.
The positional value difference between a star corner and a star tackle isn't much. That's totally different to a RB Vs QB or a RB Vs CB. So if a corner is a stud and the tackle you skipped on is a stud, there really isn't much lost value.
Not that I'd expect you to understand any of this
Tunsil played guard as a rookie and was meh. He was objectively not that good as a LT in 2017, he played well in 2018 ..and now in 2019 he hasn't been a top 5 tackle either.
That doesn't look like the track record of someone who is apparently top 5 in the league?
(12-07-2019, 06:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Tunsil played guard as a rookie and was meh. He was objectively not that good as a LT in 2017, he played well in 2018 ..and now in 2019 he hasn't been a top 5 tackle either.
That doesn't look like the track record of someone who is apparently top 5 in the league?
He's not top five at all. I don't think that's debatable at this point. Probably why the Dolphins opted to trade him while they could. The tinhorns were obviously desperate for an answer though.
We got a few years of play on a rookie contract and then two first round picks. He may be one of our best ever picks
(12-07-2019, 06:57 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-07-2019, 06:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Tunsil played guard as a rookie and was meh. He was objectively not that good as a LT in 2017, he played well in 2018 ..and now in 2019 he hasn't been a top 5 tackle either.
That doesn't look like the track record of someone who is apparently top 5 in the league?
He's not top five at all. I don't think that's debatable at this point. Probably why the Dolphins opted to trade him while they could. The tinhorns were obviously desperate for an answer though.
It wouldn't be a surprise if he did become top 5, he super talented...it just hasn't happened yet. Not that it matters to flgators narrative
Hahahahaha
THIS THREAD IS AWESOME
Dave got it right by picking Ramsey. He was the best defensive player in the draft at the time.
It was Marrone who was arguing with him on the sidelines
(12-07-2019, 06:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Tunsil played guard as a rookie and was meh. He was objectively not that good as a LT in 2017, he played well in 2018 ..and now in 2019 he hasn't been a top 5 tackle either.
That doesn't look like the track record of someone who is apparently top 5 in the league?
I'm talking about LTs and I'm talking about right now. I'm not talking about how good they were 2 years ago. Right now Tunsil and Stanley are top 5 LTs. 2 of the best tackle in the game today.
(12-07-2019, 06:41 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-07-2019, 03:59 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Who I wanted is irrelevant. Even in the modern area LT is more important than corner. Also Tunsil and Stanley are both top 5 tackles in this league.
A player can be good but just because hes good doesnt mean it was the right pick. Fournette is good but it doesn't mean he was the right pick. We should of drafted Mahomes or Cmc
Tyron Smith, Trent Williams, Terron Armstead, Lane Johnson, Ryan Ramzcyk have all been better than Tunsil over the last few years. So have Bakhtiari and Andrew Withworth, although Whitworth has regressed this year. Tunsil is a fringe top 10 tackle in the NFL.
The positional value difference between a star corner and a star tackle isn't much. That's totally different to a RB Vs QB or a RB Vs CB. So if a corner is a stud and the tackle you skipped on is a stud, there really isn't much lost value.
Not that I'd expect you to understand any of this
I understand that you're just wasting your time and typing stuff that nobody was trying too debate lol. Where did RB come from? We are talking about corner and LT. I know exactly how important the position value is of each and if you can get one of the best LTs in the league or one of the best corners in the league out of any draft give me the LT. On top of that it's much harder to find a great LT than it is to find a great corner
https://youtu.be/7h9rQEyNQ90