(12-08-2019, 12:58 PM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2019, 11:08 AM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]This scenario makes absolutely no sense.
Has there ever been an example of a team trading away the younger, cheaper, better QB over the older, more expensive QB who’s been clearly outplayed and abilities are now being questioned?
I disagree this makes perfect sense because let's be honest, this is a unique situation. To answer your question, the New England Patriots with Jimmy G and Tom Brady was the closest example I could think of follow up by Scott Mitchell and Dan Marino in Miami, Jay Feely and Donovan McNabb in Philadelphia under Andy Reid.
Let me preface by saying I don't have a problem with Gardner Minshew but with the new coaching staff and front office unless he's a established bona fide top 10 quarterback in their evaluation I can see a scenario where they might feel having him on the roster if they want to draft their own quarterback in the upcoming NFL draft. Gardner Minshew at the most popular quarterback in Jaguars history and I have been a season-ticket holder even through the good old days of Jaguar dominance of the 90s.
Gardner Minshew's popularity is Maurice Jones-Drew like where he's now bigger than the team itself among the fan base so although Nick Foles is a worst QB than Gardner Minshew the new coaching staff and office can treat Foles like a bridge QB because of the money but can't approached Minshew under the same circumstances because of his popularity. I personally don't know what going to happen this off-season it because a lot of things have to fall in place in order for me to get a clear picture of the franchise plan of action but it's clear that whoever takes this job it's going to have a situation on their hands with the QB position either way.
In every case you cite the player kept was better than the player traded. That would not be the case here.
The only way he won't be with the Jaguars is if he suffers a career ending injury in the last 4 games or he implodes so badly that he doesn't make the team. No way I see the latter happening based on his performance so far. Whether or not he is the starter, however, is not a given. Next year's coach will make that decision based hopefully on how he and Foles look in training camp and pre-season games.
His legend will continue to grow today after he marches downfield late and takes the victory lead 24 - 23 over the Chargers.
(12-08-2019, 09:58 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2019, 09:43 AM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]You can too eat the cap hit of Foles he is done here so the cap is already dead so just do it. Roll with Minshew and Dobbs and if a qb falls in the draft do it if they are in love with them if not just go into next year see what Minshew can do with a solid upgraded line and go from there..
I don't think the Jags are willing to have an $18m cap hit next year for a guy who isn't here. Especially when he could fill in just fine as the back up, at least you get something for that money.
Did they not just carry 15m dead cap with Bortles this season? Might as well do it again.
Trade Minshew, josh allen, ngakoue and a 1st rounder for Bengals #1 overall pick and draft Joe Burrow
(12-08-2019, 01:59 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2019, 09:58 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think the Jags are willing to have an $18m cap hit next year for a guy who isn't here. Especially when he could fill in just fine as the back up, at least you get something for that money.
Did they not just carry 15m dead cap with Bortles this season? Might as well do it again.
Nah, once was enough.
Minshew is NOT getting traded at all in this upcoming offseason.
Even if the new coaches dont think Minshew can be a top flight starter, he makes a fantastic backup. Is under contract for the next few years. And is super cheap. Almost every team in the league would love to have a backup like Minshew. I see basically zero circumstances where we'd want to get rid of him. No matter who the coaching staff is.
As far as Foles, if we decide to get rid of him in the offseason, it's only an additional $10-$11M hit on our cap than what it'd be if we kept him. And don't quote me on this but thought I saw if we release him after June, that additional hit would land on the 2021 cap. But again, dont quote me on that.
(12-08-2019, 04:02 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Even if the new coaches dont think Minshew can be a top flight starter, he makes a fantastic backup. Is under contract for the next few years. And is super cheap. Almost every team in the league would love to have a backup like Minshew. I see basically zero circumstances where we'd want to get rid of him. No matter who the coaching staff is.
As far as Foles, if we decide to get rid of him in the offseason, it's only an additional $10-$11M hit on our cap than what it'd be if we kept him. And don't quote me on this but thought I saw if we release him after June, that additional hit would land on the 2021 cap. But again, dont quote me on that.
Yes, a Post June 1 designation would result in $12.5 against the 2021 cap.
Very interesting situation arising in Denver. They brought in Flacco on a expensive contract similar to Foles, and Drew Lock is lighting things up in Denver. These are not bad problems to have in a franchise. I don’t see a new staff coming in and trading Minshew out if he’s your biggest chance for winning.
(12-08-2019, 04:07 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2019, 04:02 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Even if the new coaches dont think Minshew can be a top flight starter, he makes a fantastic backup. Is under contract for the next few years. And is super cheap. Almost every team in the league would love to have a backup like Minshew. I see basically zero circumstances where we'd want to get rid of him. No matter who the coaching staff is.
As far as Foles, if we decide to get rid of him in the offseason, it's only an additional $10-$11M hit on our cap than what it'd be if we kept him. And don't quote me on this but thought I saw if we release him after June, that additional hit would land on the 2021 cap. But again, dont quote me on that.
Yes, a Post June 1 designation would result in $12.5 against the 2021 cap.
Assuming a new CBA is reached by next year. If not, there is no post June 1 designation available for anyone.
(12-08-2019, 01:30 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2019, 12:58 PM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]
I disagree this makes perfect sense because let's be honest, this is a unique situation. To answer your question, the New England Patriots with Jimmy G and Tom Brady was the closest example I could think of follow up by Scott Mitchell and Dan Marino in Miami, Jay Feely and Donovan McNabb in Philadelphia under Andy Reid.
Let me preface by saying I don't have a problem with Gardner Minshew but with the new coaching staff and front office unless he's a established bona fide top 10 quarterback in their evaluation I can see a scenario where they might feel having him on the roster if they want to draft their own quarterback in the upcoming NFL draft. Gardner Minshew at the most popular quarterback in Jaguars history and I have been a season-ticket holder even through the good old days of Jaguar dominance of the 90s.
Gardner Minshew's popularity is Maurice Jones-Drew like where he's now bigger than the team itself among the fan base so although Nick Foles is a worst QB than Gardner Minshew the new coaching staff and office can treat Foles like a bridge QB because of the money but can't approached Minshew under the same circumstances because of his popularity. I personally don't know what going to happen this off-season it because a lot of things have to fall in place in order for me to get a clear picture of the franchise plan of action but it's clear that whoever takes this job it's going to have a situation on their hands with the QB position either way.
In every case you cite the player kept was better than the player traded. That would not be the case here.
Bingo.
It hasn’t happened before. I wouldn’t expect us to change history on that front.
We're so freaking dumb, the Jags will probably lay the franchise tag on Minshew next March.
I don't know if the team is going to trade him, but I could see them benching him again next season. Even though I think that he definitely has potential and the team could possibly build with him as a starter. (And while the team didn' t win and his stats weren't amazing today, I saw some flashes/potential again in today's game). But unfortunately, what I think could work against Minshew (besides a new regime taking over and maybe wanting their own guy) is his draft status. As another poster said over on this forum a little while back, some people can't really look past that.
And he probably won't get the leeway/patience that a first round draft pick will get to grow and develop in the starter role. It really may come down to how he plays these last few weeks and where exactly the Jags end up drafting. If the team loses all three games, they will have a really high pick and they might be tempted to take a QB with that. (Especially if he doesn't play well) And even if he does, but the team still loses, they still might be tempted to take a QB as a potential starter.
I'm definitely rooting for Minshew, and I would like to see him stay with the Jags and be a starter. But you never know what could happen, especially when the team seems in such a disarray right now. I do recall several people speculating before and right after he was benched that other teams might want to trade for him. Someone may try and offer something for him.
If we could get something decent for him, go for it. He's no franchise QB.
(12-08-2019, 09:56 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]If we could get something decent for him, go for it. He's no franchise QB.
I’m genuinely curious how you came to that conclusion?
(12-08-2019, 10:20 PM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2019, 09:56 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]If we could get something decent for him, go for it. He's no franchise QB.
I’m genuinely curious how you came to that conclusion?
#becausejaguars
(12-08-2019, 10:20 PM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2019, 09:56 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]If we could get something decent for him, go for it. He's no franchise QB.
I’m genuinely curious how you came to that conclusion?
I don't think he's more than a Daltonesque QB purgatory type either. He's just too average across the board. I don't think you're winning a super bowl with moxie as the leading trait.
That said, I'm certainly not rushing to trade him and he's starting ahead of Foles all day long...but I also can't ignore that 4 of his last 5 starts that teams have been able to prepare for have been pretty blah.
(12-08-2019, 10:54 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2019, 10:20 PM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ]I’m genuinely curious how you came to that conclusion?
I don't think he's more than a Daltonesque QB purgatory type either. He's just too average across the board. I don't think you're winning a super bowl with moxie as the leading trait.
That said, I'm certainly not rushing to trade him and he's starting ahead of Foles all day long...but I also can't ignore that 4 of his last 5 starts that teams have been able to prepare for have been pretty blah.
Fairly easy to shut down any qb when they essentially have one viable target and no tight ends. We don’t have a WR2. The other teams defense can essentially toy around with our o-line all game.
Not saying I think Minshew is our franchise QB, but hard to tell in this mess.
Anyone writing off minshew at this point is completely idiotic.