Analyzing a GM strictly based upon the W/L column is sort-of like blaming some Montana rancher because you didn't particularly love your steak at Ruth Chris one night.
They are related, but there's a whole slew of stuff in between you have to consider.
That said - I'm hoping Khan is ready to move forward at GM and HC.
I think Caldwell would do a decent job continuing to assemble talent, but after the past two seasons and the Coughlin debacle, a fresh start feels like the right move.
(12-30-2019, 11:33 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Analyzing a GM strictly based upon the W/L column is sort-of like blaming some Montana rancher because you didn't particularly love your steak at Ruth Chris one night.
They are related, but there's a whole slew of stuff in between you have to consider.
That said - I'm hoping Khan is ready to move forward at GM and HC.
I think Caldwell would do a decent job continuing to assemble talent, but after the past two seasons and the Coughlin debacle, a fresh start feels like the right move.
I agree. Curious your thoughts on if Khan keeps both and goes against his word from last year of "a change being made if progress isn't shown"?
(12-30-2019, 11:33 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Analyzing a GM strictly based upon the W/L column is sort-of like blaming some Montana rancher because you didn't particularly love your steak at Ruth Chris one night.
They are related, but there's a whole slew of stuff in between you have to consider.
That said - I'm hoping Khan is ready to move forward at GM and HC.
I think Caldwell would do a decent job continuing to assemble talent, but after the past two seasons and the Coughlin debacle, a fresh start feels like the right move.
In the short term yes I agree, but over an 8 year span...sorry you gotta show the goods and we are still picking top 10.
(12-30-2019, 11:33 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Analyzing a GM strictly based upon the W/L column is sort-of like blaming some Montana rancher because you didn't particularly love your steak at Ruth Chris one night.
They are related, but there's a whole slew of stuff in between you have to consider.
That said - I'm hoping Khan is ready to move forward at GM and HC.
I think Caldwell would do a decent job continuing to assemble talent, but after the past two seasons and the Coughlin debacle, a fresh start feels like the right move.
In your case, is Caldwell the Montana rancher or the head chef at Ruths Chris who picked the Montana rancher as his meat distributor and also picked the chef who is cooking the meat the Montana rancher sent to the establishment?
(12-30-2019, 11:37 AM)Brett Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 11:33 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Analyzing a GM strictly based upon the W/L column is sort-of like blaming some Montana rancher because you didn't particularly love your steak at Ruth Chris one night.
They are related, but there's a whole slew of stuff in between you have to consider.
That said - I'm hoping Khan is ready to move forward at GM and HC.
I think Caldwell would do a decent job continuing to assemble talent, but after the past two seasons and the Coughlin debacle, a fresh start feels like the right move.
I agree. Curious your thoughts on if Khan keeps both and goes against his word from last year of "a change being made if progress isn't shown"?
Khan will say a change was made. He'll pin the blame on the scapegoat. That scapegoat is Tom Coughlin.
Dying for one of those funny Playboy style cartoon comic illustrations to crop up at some point.
Know what I am talking about? Maybe a little comic strip of a Doug Marrone and David Caldwell in Shahid Khan's office where they have the little comic blurbs?
"But.. but.. but.. it's not fairrrrrr" - Caldwell [While wearing a Ramsey jersey]
"It was all To..To..Tom sir" - Marrone [While he's eating a bologna sandwich]
"It's okay. It is done. Jacksonville shall wallow in mediocrity for another year. Now kiss the ring and fetch me my mustache cleansing balms" [While wearing a fancy robe in gold and teal] - Khan
"The plan is set. The reports were false" - Mini Khan [In the corner of the room behind a fake plant while wearing a Stone Cold Steve Austin shirt standing at knee height]
Is there a local cartoonist in town? I have ideas.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
(12-30-2019, 11:37 AM)Brett Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 11:33 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Analyzing a GM strictly based upon the W/L column is sort-of like blaming some Montana rancher because you didn't particularly love your steak at Ruth Chris one night.
They are related, but there's a whole slew of stuff in between you have to consider.
That said - I'm hoping Khan is ready to move forward at GM and HC.
I think Caldwell would do a decent job continuing to assemble talent, but after the past two seasons and the Coughlin debacle, a fresh start feels like the right move.
I agree. Curious your thoughts on if Khan keeps both and goes against his word from last year of "a change being made if progress isn't shown"?
I thought Khan would move on for sure prior to the latest round of rumors to the contrary. Now I'm less certain, but I still believe a change is more likely than staying the course. Especially at HC.
(12-30-2019, 09:46 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 09:38 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Going by record they're practically the same, though it's a very stupid post and shows you have no understanding about NFL GMs. The team now has young talent (Allen, Chark, Minshew, Taylor, and Harrison to name a few players) but after after Gene Smith it definitely didn't, and the team actually made the playoffs at some point during Caldwell's tenure.
34% winning percentage for Gene, 32% for Dave. Winning is all that matters.
Give Gene 3 more years from the point he was let go.
Give Dave 3 more years from today forward.
Which do you think would fare better?
(12-30-2019, 11:51 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 11:37 AM)Brett Wrote: [ -> ]I agree. Curious your thoughts on if Khan keeps both and goes against his word from last year of "a change being made if progress isn't shown"?
I thought Khan would move on for sure prior to the latest round of rumors to the contrary. Now I'm less certain, but I still believe a change is more likely than staying the course. Especially at HC.
I agree. I'm just waiting to hear the news now, wouldn't be shocked one way or the other. My only caveat is if Marrone stays, Wash and the defensive staff HAVE to go.
(12-30-2019, 12:05 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 09:46 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]34% winning percentage for Gene, 32% for Dave. Winning is all that matters.
Give Gene 3 more years from the point he was let go.
Give Dave 3 more years from today forward.
Which do you think would fare better?
Easily Dave.
(12-30-2019, 12:05 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 11:51 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I thought Khan would move on for sure prior to the latest round of rumors to the contrary. Now I'm less certain, but I still believe a change is more likely than staying the course. Especially at HC.
I agree. I'm just waiting to hear the news now, wouldn't be shocked one way or the other. My only caveat is if Marrone stays, Wash and the defensive staff HAVE to go.
(12-30-2019, 12:05 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Give Gene 3 more years from the point he was let go.
Give Dave 3 more years from today forward.
Which do you think would fare better?
Easily Dave.
Yeah. No way to justify Wash staying regardless of Marrone's status - and I'd add Warhop to that list as well. How in the hell do you hire an O-Line coach with such a horrible track record in the first place? That's yet another strike against Marrone IMO.
Dave is better than Gene. Dave is still bad and needs to go. That was easy.
(12-30-2019, 12:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 12:05 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]I agree. I'm just waiting to hear the news now, wouldn't be shocked one way or the other. My only caveat is if Marrone stays, Wash and the defensive staff HAVE to go.
Easily Dave.
Yeah. No way to justify Wash staying regardless of Marrone's status - and I'd add Warhop to that list as well. How in the hell do you hire an O-Line coach with such a horrible track record in the first place? That's yet another strike against Marrone IMO.
100% agree. No one understood the Warhop hire. Got fired from Tampa for doing a horrible job and the Oline has been bad all year but all 5 starters were healthy all year. Thats a rarity we wasted this year.
You can't judge Dave on the coaches because I don't think he hired either of them. Gus was a Khan pick and Marrone was TC.
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(12-30-2019, 12:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 12:05 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]I agree. I'm just waiting to hear the news now, wouldn't be shocked one way or the other. My only caveat is if Marrone stays, Wash and the defensive staff HAVE to go.
Easily Dave.
Yeah. No way to justify Wash staying regardless of Marrone's status - and I'd add Warhop to that list as well. How in the hell do you hire an O-Line coach with such a horrible track record in the first place? That's yet another strike against Marrone IMO.
It's a case of you get who will work for you. I wasn't overly impressed with Flop either, his scheme may have been hindered by the personnel weaknesses, but his play calling was predictable and pretty unimaginative most of the year. And if Marrone stays there aren't many who will come here to work for him since he's already hanging on by a thread. It's just not going to work if Marrone stays, because he'll pretty much have to keep his assistants, and we just can't have that going into the offseason.
(12-30-2019, 12:16 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]You can't judge Dave on the coaches because I don't think he hired either of them. Gus was a Khan pick and Marrone was TC.
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Nah, I think you can judge him on the coaches and frankly, they weren't that bad at the time. Bradley was a great guy and the next big thing while Marrone was already a familiar and the team clearly responded to his style at first. Everyone wants to judge in hindsight, but the Marrone hire paid dividends the following year. What's happened since is a cluster though, and it's time for a clean sweep of the coaching staff. I'm 50/50 on Caldwell, but I'd lean toward keep rather than replace. What happened to the roster and salary cap the last two years has TC's fingerprints all over it.
(12-30-2019, 12:17 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 12:08 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah. No way to justify Wash staying regardless of Marrone's status - and I'd add Warhop to that list as well. How in the hell do you hire an O-Line coach with such a horrible track record in the first place? That's yet another strike against Marrone IMO.
It's a case of you get who will work for you. I wasn't overly impressed with Flop either, his scheme may have been hindered by the personnel weaknesses, but his play calling was predictable and pretty unimaginative most of the year. And if Marrone stays there aren't many who will come here to work for him since he's already hanging on by a thread. It's just not going to work if Marrone stays, because he'll pretty much have to keep his assistants, and we just can't have that going into the offseason.
Yeah. I was digging Flip's approach through the air early on this season - but he ran out of wrinkles quickly when the TE position was down to street free agent mid-season signings.
The run game approach has been an antiquated "I dare you to stop this obvious run between the tackles" approach since Marrone arrived - and Flip's version of that was only slightly less egregious than Hackett's post-Corey Grant entity. If I have a gripe with Flip it's mostly this, though I don't know how much of that is him catering to Marrone's run philosophy.
I do wonder what Flip could accomplish with two upgrades along that front five and 3 healthy/capable tight ends though. And you gotta give him some credit for getting those numbers out of a 6th round rookie QB. A fair number of those passing stats came on well designed plays that didn't involve Minshew improvising and those are worth considering.
(12-30-2019, 11:49 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 11:37 AM)Brett Wrote: [ -> ]I agree. Curious your thoughts on if Khan keeps both and goes against his word from last year of "a change being made if progress isn't shown"?
Khan will say a change was made. He'll pin the blame on the scapegoat. That scapegoat is Tom Coughlin.
Dying for one of those funny Playboy style cartoon comic illustrations to crop up at some point.
Know what I am talking about? Maybe a little comic strip of a Doug Marrone and David Caldwell in Shahid Khan's office where they have the little comic blurbs?
"But.. but.. but.. it's not fairrrrrr" - Caldwell [While wearing a Ramsey jersey]
"It was all To..To..Tom sir" - Marrone [While he's eating a bologna sandwich]
"It's okay. It is done. Jacksonville shall wallow in mediocrity for another year. Now kiss the ring and fetch me my mustache cleansing balms" [While wearing a fancy robe in gold and teal] - Khan
"The plan is set. The reports were false" - Mini Khan [In the corner of the room behind a fake plant while wearing a Stone Cold Steve Austin shirt standing at knee height]
Is there a local cartoonist in town? I have ideas.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
I spent more time on making this for you then I thought I would, so I hope you enjoy it, lol. I didn't include all your details and had to change a few things up. Once I started, I couldn't stop. Sidenote, "give me a hell yeah" is a famous reference from Stone Cold.
![[Image: c2cf2101839b8041469148999ff487fe-full.png]](https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/12/30/c2cf2101839b8041469148999ff487fe-full.png)
(12-30-2019, 09:46 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 09:38 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Going by record they're practically the same, though it's a very stupid post and shows you have no understanding about NFL GMs. The team now has young talent (Allen, Chark, Minshew, Taylor, and Harrison to name a few players) but after after Gene Smith it definitely didn't, and the team actually made the playoffs at some point during Caldwell's tenure.
34% winning percentage for Gene, 32% for Dave. Winning is all that matters.
For a GM, not necessarily, especially if (as the story goes) Caldwell hasn't actually been able to hire his own coach yet. Bradley was dumped on him by ownership and Marrone was all Coughlin. The GM's job is to provide talent, and Caldwell actually hasn't done a terrible job of it. I'm not saying he's the next Ozzie Newsome, but he's good enough that we don't need to dump him for the sake of dumping him. If a better option is willing to come here, by all means fire Caldwell, but don't just fire him without a plan to theoretically upgrade.
(12-30-2019, 01:32 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]I have a hunch that the reason for the delay in a decision is to give Khan time to see what his options on the open market are. Marrone and Caldwell are both good enough to give a post-Coughlin shot to, but not so good as to be untouchable. If Khan finds guys out there that he likes more than the prospect of giving those two another chance, bye. If he doesn't, they both get a one-year stay of execution to see what they can do.
You could make the argument (and I'd say successfully) that if you don't think those are your guys moving forward, you dump them immediately to give the new GM the full benefit of the Ramsey picks.
I think you are giving Khan too much credit. I'm not sure he knows what the hell he is doing.
I also think Tony is going to take on a larger role on the personnel side, which should scare the [BLEEP] out of everyone.
(12-30-2019, 09:25 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 09:20 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]He's not succeeded, but let's not act we didn't go through Gene Smith immediately before him.
Caldwell has missed a lot of picks, but Gene Smith makes him look like a draft genius by comparison.
Genes record was 22-42 with 4 seasons.
Dave's record is 36-76 with 7 seasons.
It is clear who the worst GM in our franchise history is, and it actually isn't even close.
One of them started with some talent on the team and the other one didn't
if jags keep doug as head coach then expect another loseing season next year.