I just hope we get another food group because the middle school ice cream and bologna jokes have always been sooooooo funny.
(12-30-2019, 10:22 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 09:03 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He doesn't need to tell us a damn thing. You're a fan, not a shareholder. Learn the difference.
Without the fans the shareholders lose..
Thank you my man please make it make sense for me. LOL
(12-30-2019, 10:27 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 07:32 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]I'm fine with keeping Caldwell and Marrone. Mediocrity is fun. Playoffs are over-rated.
Right now, mediocrity is an aspiration.
I say we lean into it, hire Fisher and let's have some 7-9, 8-8 bulls***
Our staff arent used to working in January.
(12-30-2019, 11:18 PM)Legal American Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 09:03 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He doesn't need to tell us a damn thing. You're a fan, not a shareholder. Learn the difference.
Cool it, Tony. While you're correct that he doesn't technically have to tell fans anything, fans deserve some honesty out of this franchise if they expect the fans to continue to spend their money on the product. Walking around like you're too important to remember the people who support your brand typically spells disaster.
It's funny that you think he needs you for anything. This team is his toy, he's currently making a small fortune with it, and if it doesn't work here he's got an exit strategy in place. You think you matter, but you really don't. At all. Go ahead, quit spending your money. All you'll get is this from Shad as the moving trucks back up to Ya'll Tell Stadium:
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/UuQbjO7ghVHhK/giphy.gif)
(12-30-2019, 10:22 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 09:03 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He doesn't need to tell us a damn thing. You're a fan, not a shareholder. Learn the difference.
Without the fans the shareholders lose..
Really? How much of the team's revenue is dependent on game day activities unrelated to the TV contracts?
(12-31-2019, 11:11 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2019, 11:18 PM)Legal American Wrote: [ -> ]Cool it, Tony. While you're correct that he doesn't technically have to tell fans anything, fans deserve some honesty out of this franchise if they expect the fans to continue to spend their money on the product. Walking around like you're too important to remember the people who support your brand typically spells disaster.
It's funny that you think he needs you for anything. This team is his toy, he's currently making a small fortune with it, and if it doesn't work here he's got an exit strategy in place. You think you matter, but you really don't. At all. Go ahead, quit spending your money. All you'll get is this from Shad as the moving trucks back up to Ya'll Tell Stadium:
What's funny is a fan who apologizes for the billionaire owner who doesn't care if you exist. What isn't funny, is when Owner's learn that fans actually are passionate about winning and expect better than the garbage they're served. A good business owner knows to not bite the hand that feeds him, and in today's day and age with social media and the ability for consumers to speak up, businesses have all the free focus groups they could ever want IF they care to listen. You're absolutely correct that Shad doesn't owe anything to fans, but fans don't owe anything to Shad either and are free to come and go as they please. You're also correct that Shad doesn't give a darn about any specific fan making dumb comments on a fan forum, but you'd have to be a fool to think that they aren't concerned about the collective mindset of their fan base which makes their investment grow. As far as him moving the team, I don't live in Florida so I don't have that panic that others might who are lucky enough to attend the games in person.
A smart business owner knows that while they can get rich even with a weak fan base, they can make much more with a franchise where winning becomes tradition and they can build a brand. Right now, the Jaguars are absolutely not a brand. It's perfectly fine to cheer for the team in our own way. You apologize for the billionaire who doesn't care if you get hit by a truck, and I'll criticize what I perceive as stupid mistakes by the same billionaire who also doesn't care if I get hit by a truck. Hopefully someday that billionaire starts caring enough to make decisions that lead to wins.
(01-01-2020, 08:00 PM)Legal American Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 11:11 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny that you think he needs you for anything. This team is his toy, he's currently making a small fortune with it, and if it doesn't work here he's got an exit strategy in place. You think you matter, but you really don't. At all. Go ahead, quit spending your money. All you'll get is this from Shad as the moving trucks back up to Ya'll Tell Stadium:
...
Hopefully someday that billionaire starts caring enough to make decisions that lead to wins.
I keep seeing versions of this sentiment about Khan from 5 or 6 posters.
Why do you believe the owner of an NFL team doesn't care about winning??
That's insane.
Wins = Money.
Owners like money.
Khan believes there's a potential positive outcome moving ahead with Caldwell and Marrone on a short leash or he wouldn't have done it. Most fans disagree that things can improve significantly that way. That's fine - but that doesn't mean Khan doesn't care about growing his brand, his team's fanbase, or adding value to the franchise. It just means he came away from a series of meetings convinced this was the best way forward at this time.
(01-01-2020, 08:00 PM)Legal American Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 11:11 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny that you think he needs you for anything. This team is his toy, he's currently making a small fortune with it, and if it doesn't work here he's got an exit strategy in place. You think you matter, but you really don't. At all. Go ahead, quit spending your money. All you'll get is this from Shad as the moving trucks back up to Ya'll Tell Stadium:
What's funny is a fan who apologizes for the billionaire owner who doesn't care if you exist. What isn't funny, is when Owner's learn that fans actually are passionate about winning and expect better than the garbage they're served. A good business owner knows to not bite the hand that feeds him, and in today's day and age with social media and the ability for consumers to speak up, businesses have all the free focus groups they could ever want IF they care to listen. You're absolutely correct that Shad doesn't owe anything to fans, but fans don't owe anything to Shad either and are free to come and go as they please. You're also correct that Shad doesn't give a darn about any specific fan making dumb comments on a fan forum, but you'd have to be a fool to think that they aren't concerned about the collective mindset of their fan base which makes their investment grow. As far as him moving the team, I don't live in Florida so I don't have that panic that others might who are lucky enough to attend the games in person.
A smart business owner knows that while they can get rich even with a weak fan base, they can make much more with a franchise where winning becomes tradition and they can build a brand. Right now, the Jaguars are absolutely not a brand. It's perfectly fine to cheer for the team in our own way. You apologize for the billionaire who doesn't care if you get hit by a truck, and I'll criticize what I perceive as stupid mistakes by the same billionaire who also doesn't care if I get hit by a truck. Hopefully someday that billionaire starts caring enough to make decisions that lead to wins.
Shad Khan is a successful businessman for one reason - he loves money. He doesn't care about the Jaguars fans as individuals, he only cares to the extent that they buy tickets and merchandise so he continues to make money. The value of the Jaguars has skyrocketed since Khan bought the team and he's only going to continue to make money after the next CBA is negotiated. Khan knows that the games in London make more money than those in Jacksonville, so it only makes sense that he pushes for a 2nd game in London each year. Drive down demand in Jacksonville for the product by continuing to lose and then it makes it easier to sell that 2nd game to the league.
If Khan was interested in a winning product on the field, he would have fired DM/DC because they've had more than enough time to develop a winning culture. But keeping them onboard puts the Jags right around the 5-7 win mark, just enough for a false sense of hope that somehow Caldwell is going to get better at drafting, all of the salary cap issues are going to fix themselves, and DM is going to have an epiphany and all of a sudden become a better coach.
Winning is only important to the extent that it drives profit. Until fans voice their displeasure and vote with their pocketbooks, why would Khan make any changes? It's just another one of his businesses when it comes down to it, no different than his soccer team or wrestling ventures.
The unfortunate thing is that most Jaguars fans are loyal to a fault, and will continue to line Khan's pockets with cash no matter how awful the product is on the field.
(01-01-2020, 09:42 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 08:00 PM)Legal American Wrote: [ -> ]What's funny is a fan who apologizes for the billionaire owner who doesn't care if you exist. What isn't funny, is when Owner's learn that fans actually are passionate about winning and expect better than the garbage they're served. A good business owner knows to not bite the hand that feeds him, and in today's day and age with social media and the ability for consumers to speak up, businesses have all the free focus groups they could ever want IF they care to listen. You're absolutely correct that Shad doesn't owe anything to fans, but fans don't owe anything to Shad either and are free to come and go as they please. You're also correct that Shad doesn't give a darn about any specific fan making dumb comments on a fan forum, but you'd have to be a fool to think that they aren't concerned about the collective mindset of their fan base which makes their investment grow. As far as him moving the team, I don't live in Florida so I don't have that panic that others might who are lucky enough to attend the games in person.
A smart business owner knows that while they can get rich even with a weak fan base, they can make much more with a franchise where winning becomes tradition and they can build a brand. Right now, the Jaguars are absolutely not a brand. It's perfectly fine to cheer for the team in our own way. You apologize for the billionaire who doesn't care if you get hit by a truck, and I'll criticize what I perceive as stupid mistakes by the same billionaire who also doesn't care if I get hit by a truck. Hopefully someday that billionaire starts caring enough to make decisions that lead to wins.
Shad Khan is a successful businessman for one reason - he loves money. He doesn't care about the Jaguars fans as individuals, he only cares to the extent that they buy tickets and merchandise so he continues to make money. The value of the Jaguars has skyrocketed since Khan bought the team and he's only going to continue to make money after the next CBA is negotiated. Khan knows that the games in London make more money than those in Jacksonville, so it only makes sense that he pushes for a 2nd game in London each year. Drive down demand in Jacksonville for the product by continuing to lose and then it makes it easier to sell that 2nd game to the league.
If Khan was interested in a winning product on the field, he would have fired DM/DC because they've had more than enough time to develop a winning culture. But keeping them onboard puts the Jags right around the 5-7 win mark, just enough for a false sense of hope that somehow Caldwell is going to get better at drafting, all of the salary cap issues are going to fix themselves, and DM is going to have an epiphany and all of a sudden become a better coach.
Winning is only important to the extent that it drives profit. Until fans voice their displeasure and vote with their pocketbooks, why would Khan make any changes? It's just another one of his businesses when it comes down to it, no different than his soccer team or wrestling ventures.
The unfortunate thing is that most Jaguars fans are loyal to a fault, and will continue to line Khan's pockets with cash no matter how awful the product is on the field.
Dont mistake "not knowing how to win" for "not wanting to win"
Shad will spend whatever amount of money to win here, he just doesn't know how
(01-01-2020, 10:50 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 09:42 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]Shad Khan is a successful businessman for one reason - he loves money. He doesn't care about the Jaguars fans as individuals, he only cares to the extent that they buy tickets and merchandise so he continues to make money. The value of the Jaguars has skyrocketed since Khan bought the team and he's only going to continue to make money after the next CBA is negotiated. Khan knows that the games in London make more money than those in Jacksonville, so it only makes sense that he pushes for a 2nd game in London each year. Drive down demand in Jacksonville for the product by continuing to lose and then it makes it easier to sell that 2nd game to the league.
If Khan was interested in a winning product on the field, he would have fired DM/DC because they've had more than enough time to develop a winning culture. But keeping them onboard puts the Jags right around the 5-7 win mark, just enough for a false sense of hope that somehow Caldwell is going to get better at drafting, all of the salary cap issues are going to fix themselves, and DM is going to have an epiphany and all of a sudden become a better coach.
Winning is only important to the extent that it drives profit. Until fans voice their displeasure and vote with their pocketbooks, why would Khan make any changes? It's just another one of his businesses when it comes down to it, no different than his soccer team or wrestling ventures.
The unfortunate thing is that most Jaguars fans are loyal to a fault, and will continue to line Khan's pockets with cash no matter how awful the product is on the field.
Dont mistake "not knowing how to win" for "not wanting to win"
Shad will spend whatever amount of money to win here, he just doesn't know how
Fair enough point. Either way, Khan isn't putting out a winning product, and although hope springs eternal, it's unlikely that the Jags are going to defy the odds again like they did in 2017.
(01-01-2020, 08:00 PM)Legal American Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 11:11 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny that you think he needs you for anything. This team is his toy, he's currently making a small fortune with it, and if it doesn't work here he's got an exit strategy in place. You think you matter, but you really don't. At all. Go ahead, quit spending your money. All you'll get is this from Shad as the moving trucks back up to Ya'll Tell Stadium:
What's funny is a fan who apologizes for the billionaire owner who doesn't care if you exist. What isn't funny, is when Owner's learn that fans actually are passionate about winning and expect better than the garbage they're served. A good business owner knows to not bite the hand that feeds him, and in today's day and age with social media and the ability for consumers to speak up, businesses have all the free focus groups they could ever want IF they care to listen. You're absolutely correct that Shad doesn't owe anything to fans, but fans don't owe anything to Shad either and are free to come and go as they please. You're also correct that Shad doesn't give a darn about any specific fan making dumb comments on a fan forum, but you'd have to be a fool to think that they aren't concerned about the collective mindset of their fan base which makes their investment grow. As far as him moving the team, I don't live in Florida so I don't have that panic that others might who are lucky enough to attend the games in person.
A smart business owner knows that while they can get rich even with a weak fan base, they can make much more with a franchise where winning becomes tradition and they can build a brand. Right now, the Jaguars are absolutely not a brand. It's perfectly fine to cheer for the team in our own way. You apologize for the billionaire who doesn't care if you get hit by a truck, and I'll criticize what I perceive as stupid mistakes by the same billionaire who also doesn't care if I get hit by a truck. Hopefully someday that billionaire starts caring enough to make decisions that lead to wins.
I'm not apologizing for anyone, just pointing out that all the folks who act like being a fan means you are suddenly entitled to have the owner concern himself with what you think are off base. Your misunderstanding is thinking that the Jaguars are Khan's business, they aren't, they are his toy. He owns the Jaguars
because he is rich, not in order to become or stay that way. The NFL at large succeeds on TV money and they will succeed whether or not Jaguars fans support the team. If they continually do not then it's not hard for them to find some fans who will. That's the life of the small market franchise, and I will apologize for him in that Khan seems like the perfect owner for one of those, ie talks a good game and spends money on the roster.
Yeah, winning = more money...but not by a lot. A large majority of team revenue comes from TV deals and licensing. On average only 8% of teams revenue comes from ticket sales/concessions/parking/etc, and the Jags are well below average I'd speculate around 5%. And of course fans still come to the stadium when the team is losing, just not as many.
I would guess that winning probably equals maybe 1-2% more money, if that. Shad would still be making money hand over fist if the Jags played in a stadium with zero fans, and the franchise value would still be skyrocketing.
All of that said, I still believe Shad wants to win and has spent a lot of money to try to do it. But he is extremely obviously not nearly as cutthroat about it since he has guaranteed profits. Just look at how polar opposite he has managed the Jags vs Fulham, where he has gone through coaches like it's going out of style because the specter of relegation makes losing money a real possibility.
(01-02-2020, 11:26 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, winning = more money...but not by a lot. A large majority of team revenue comes from TV deals and licensing. On average only 8% of teams revenue comes from ticket sales/concessions/parking/etc, and the Jags are well below average I'd speculate around 5%. And of course fans still come to the stadium when the team is losing, just not as many.
I would guess that winning probably equals maybe 1-2% more money, if that. Shad would still be making money hand over fist if the Jags played in a stadium with zero fans, and the franchise value would still be skyrocketing.
All of that said, I still believe Shad wants to win and has spent a lot of money to try to do it. But he is extremely obviously not nearly as cutthroat about it since he has guaranteed profits. Just look at how polar opposite he has managed the Jags vs Fulham, where he has gone through coaches like it's going out of style because the specter of relegation makes losing money a real possibility.
Yeah, this is what I'm getting at too. Winning doesn't equal all that much more money and it certainly isn't driving profitability, so his past expenditures at least makes me think he wants to win. He's just struggling with the how.
Can anyone find a few situations where a potential coaching candidate will be available in 2021 and not 2020? I just don't understand how Marrone still has a job?
We need Byron Lefttown to put forth a conspiracy theory here
i think the nfl is paying the jags off so they can move them to london. You wouldn't think a owner would be stupied enough to hire a loseing HC,and then keep the loser around for way to long. you watch,and see one day it will be annoucned
jags moveing to london,and the first year there they will suddenly have a winning record. probbley like 9-7.
(01-09-2020, 05:45 PM)snowwolf776 Wrote: [ -> ]i think the nfl is paying the jags off so they can move them to london. You wouldn't think a owner would be stupied enough to hire a loseing HC,and then keep the loser around for way to long. you watch,and see one day it will be annoucned
jags moveing to london,and the first year there they will suddenly have a winning record. probbley like 9-7.
While Mike Brown is never going to be admitted into mensa, Marv Lewis makes that theory a little unreliable.
Or even every stop in Jeff Fisher's career.