(01-01-2020, 09:41 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 09:18 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]And that’s the biggest issue here.
Hurting the future because they have to win now.
Right, I expect the two firsts and the second to be used on bad reaches and some really dumb cap decisions to be made handicapping whoever comes in to replace the current clownshow once Khan finally wises up.
But hey we were really close in 2017 right? I mean let's chase fantasy and double down on bad decisions with crippling cap moves to save some jobs. This rarely works out and was a disaster when we did the same thing in 2007.
Groundhog franchise.
(01-01-2020, 09:18 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 06:10 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]They probably won't cut him because they cannot afford to make the team worse, even if it makes sense in the long term. Caldwell and Marrone need to win now. That means most of their moves will be short term moves, not long term moves.
And that’s the biggest issue here.
Hurting the future because they have to win now.
This is what is going to keep us from getting Lawrence or Fields too. Teams with an FO that has some rope is going to tank much better than our white hot seat coaches that are going to be desperate to win a couple of meaningless late games to save their jobs yet again.
(01-01-2020, 12:12 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 09:18 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]And that’s the biggest issue here.
Hurting the future because they have to win now.
This is what is going to keep us from getting Lawrence or Fields too. Teams with an FO that has some rope is going to tank much better than our white hot seat coaches that are going to be desperate to win a couple of meaningless late games to save their jobs yet again.
Lol, the best rookie QB this year wont let that happen. Especially after he improves and he gets a full training camp and a real TE along with the experience. With Minshew we lose 8 games minimum next year. We finally get a franchise QB and people still want to tank and not even try to give Minshew a chance or help lol. You have always had that loser mentality though, #tankforteddy lol
I think you meant lose a maximum of 8 games hah. None the less, I agree with your reasoning. We won 6 this year with him as a rookie. Get a TE, a new guard or two, and NT depth and we will win at least 8 games next year.
(01-01-2020, 12:12 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 09:18 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]And that’s the biggest issue here.
Hurting the future because they have to win now.
This is what is going to keep us from getting Lawrence or Fields too. Teams with an FO that has some rope is going to tank much better than our white hot seat coaches that are going to be desperate to win a couple of meaningless late games to save their jobs yet again.
I hate to go into a season intending to try and get the hottest QB in the draft, because that means we have to suck, and getting worse is the worst way to try to get better.
Who cares if we have Lawrence or Fields if we put them on a [BLEEP] team where they get beat to death and become a bust?
(12-31-2019, 03:51 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 02:30 PM)jvillejagsn1 Wrote: [ -> ]We now know that Marrone and Caldwell are here for at least another year. Also, it's been hinted that everyone on the current staff will be back. Unfortunately, that means that Goldberg's twin will remain and so our defensive scheme.
So what should we do with our existing players?
Sign or tag Ngakoue.
Move Jack to will.
Acquire capable middle linebacker.
Acquire nose tackle run stuffer.
Move Cam to guard.
Acquire Left Tackle.
Acquire CB.
Acquire TE.
Keep Calais one more year to mentor Allen but try to restructure.
Cuts: Lee, Dareus (unless he's healed well and will restructure), AJ Cann, Abry Jones, Jake Ryan, and maybe Bouye
That clears up about 48 million w/ Bouye gone, 37 million if you keep Bouye.
This ^ as a bare minimum could at least limit the ugly losses to fewer than 2019.
I agree with all of this, too, but I lean toward keeping Bouye. Without him, the roster has no one resembling a lockdown corner other than Hayden, who's best in the slot. Even if we draft a CB high, you can't rely on a rookie to contain WR1s. The secondary will be a big weakness in 2020 without Bouye.
(01-01-2020, 12:41 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 12:12 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]This is what is going to keep us from getting Lawrence or Fields too. Teams with an FO that has some rope is going to tank much better than our white hot seat coaches that are going to be desperate to win a couple of meaningless late games to save their jobs yet again.
I hate to go into a season intending to try and get the hottest QB in the draft, because that means we have to suck, and getting worse is the worst way to try to get better.
Who cares if we have Lawrence or Fields if we put them on a [BLEEP] team where they get beat to death and become a bust?
Yeah, and when we tank for Lawrence or Fields and they don't have an All Pro rookie year because of the talent around him he will want to tank the following year for a QB. It would be a never ending process with him. At the same time he complains about the team not having talent, but then wants to pass it up for another QB lol
Every single time I have ever brought up Minshew I have said to keep him AND reinforce the position. Minshew was not good enough to hand him the keys to the franchise, but he wasn't bad enough that we should feel panicked to draft one next year.
(01-01-2020, 02:59 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Every single time I have ever brought up Minshew I have said to keep him AND reinforce the position. Minshew was not good enough to hand him the keys to the franchise, but he wasn't bad enough that we should feel panicked to draft one next year.
This is the Bortles situation all over again.
Blake played “ok” in 2017 so they doubled down on him and in the mean time passed up QB talent.
Minshew played well but to pass up QB talent because you’re sold on Minshew is a mistake.
(01-01-2020, 09:41 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 09:18 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]And that’s the biggest issue here.
Hurting the future because they have to win now.
Right, I expect the two firsts and the second to be used on bad reaches and some really dumb cap decisions to be made handicapping whoever comes in to replace the current clownshow once Khan finally wises up.
You're making the bad assumption that Khan is going to wise up. But I would agree - DM/DC are in "win-now" mode and will reach for positions of need.
(01-01-2020, 12:25 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 12:12 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]This is what is going to keep us from getting Lawrence or Fields too. Teams with an FO that has some rope is going to tank much better than our white hot seat coaches that are going to be desperate to win a couple of meaningless late games to save their jobs yet again.
Lol, the best rookie QB this year wont let that happen. Especially after he improves and he gets a full training camp and a real TE along with the experience. With Minshew we lose 8 games minimum next year. We finally get a franchise QB and people still want to tank and not even try to give Minshew a chance or help lol. You have always had that loser mentality though, #tankforteddy lol
I mentioned this in another thread. But the Jags would have to perform pretty terribly to in order to have a shot at Trevor Lawrence. Probably to have a shot at Justin Fields as well. I don't think that the team could win any more than 3 games if they want a shot at drafting #1 pick. And even that might be too many games depending on how other teams perform next year. There is no guarantee that the Jags are going to draft Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields. While it's not impossible, I don't think it's very likely.
The Jags as currently constructed are not bad enough to get the #1 draft pick next year. Granted things could happen like injuries that could change the course of a season. But this team right now isn't bad enough to lose as many games as it would take to get the #1 spot. And I think that is true whether you play Gardner or Nick. Or even Josh Dobbs. Josh might could win you at least three games. He hasn't played a bunch, so who knows what could be there with him either. So all of this talk about tanking for Lawrence may end up being in vain.
Some people including some Jags fans for whatever reason don't want to give Minshew a chance. I do think that some of it has to do with where he was drafted. And I think that some people have the attitude well if Minshew could win this many games in his rookie season, Surely other QB's (including bigger, more athletic, prototypical QB's) could do the same and better. And while some could, that isn't always the case. There are people who want to use the #9 pick on a QB, and I don't think that is the best idea.
Especially when this team has other needs they need to address first like O-line. You can draft another QB, but if he gets beaten up, what good is that going to do. And there is a lot that goes into being QB, besides stuff like size and athleticism, which are important, but not the end all. But that is largely what some people seem to care about. Without thinking as much about the other qualities and things that a QB needs to succeed.
(01-01-2020, 05:38 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 02:59 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Every single time I have ever brought up Minshew I have said to keep him AND reinforce the position. Minshew was not good enough to hand him the keys to the franchise, but he wasn't bad enough that we should feel panicked to draft one next year.
This is the Bortles situation all over again.
Blake played “ok” in 2017 so they doubled down on him and in the mean time passed up QB talent.
Minshew played well but to pass up QB talent because you’re sold on Minshew is a mistake.
It's similar, but the problem with 2017 Bortles was it was time to pay or cut him. Minshew we have cheap for a while so they have time to figure it out, but they have to get it right. We can't spend 2-3 years evaluating and then wind up between a rock and a hard place with Minshew's rookie salary almost up.
(01-01-2020, 05:45 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 09:41 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Right, I expect the two firsts and the second to be used on bad reaches and some really dumb cap decisions to be made handicapping whoever comes in to replace the current clownshow once Khan finally wises up.
You're making the bad assumption that Khan is going to wise up. But I would agree - DM/DC are in "win-now" mode and will reach for positions of need.
While it is possible Doug and Dave Outlast the Jags as they exist currently, it's more likely that Khan gets rid of them eventually one way or another.
(01-01-2020, 05:38 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 02:59 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Every single time I have ever brought up Minshew I have said to keep him AND reinforce the position. Minshew was not good enough to hand him the keys to the franchise, but he wasn't bad enough that we should feel panicked to draft one next year.
This is the Bortles situation all over again.
Blake played “ok” in 2017 so they doubled down on him and in the mean time passed up QB talent.
Minshew played well but to pass up QB talent because you’re sold on Minshew is a mistake.
It's not even remotely close to being the same situation though. They were coming off a play off run where in fairness it appeared he was playing his best football decision making wise.
In fact. In week two against New England here at home he had us all fooled in 2018 before the whole year went to [BLEEP]. As he was playing pretty well in that game.
Minshew played well for a 6th RD pick. But with Foles contract situation it's highly unlikely Caldwell selects another QB on opening draft night. You can't have three QB's going into training camp like that.
If it's true that Tagovailoa is returning back to Alabama that now leaves Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert as your primary first round QBs.
Herbert may end up in Miami, Los Angeles or Tampa Bay before we're on the clock. Which is perfectly fine by me because I don't like that kid anyway. Don't want him here.
It would be 2003 all over again where that front office couldn't wait to select Leftwich instead of just letting Garrard take a fair stab at the job.
We went into 2004 looking at essentially three hall of fame options at the position in that draft. 2021 now looks promising with Lawrence, Fields & Tagovaiola.
With Caldwell and Marrone getting one more year to save their hides. They're NOT putting their jobs in the hands of yet another rookie QB. It literally breaks this idea of continuity they're trying to sell us all on this off season.
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(01-01-2020, 05:38 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 02:59 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Every single time I have ever brought up Minshew I have said to keep him AND reinforce the position. Minshew was not good enough to hand him the keys to the franchise, but he wasn't bad enough that we should feel panicked to draft one next year.
This is the Bortles situation all over again.
Blake played “ok” in 2017 so they doubled down on him and in the mean time passed up QB talent.
Minshew played well but to pass up QB talent because you’re sold on Minshew is a mistake.
Agreed about passing up QB talent, but the problem is, who's the talent that we could possibly pass up?
Burrow will be long gone by #9, so that leaves Herbert. Herbert will likely be gone also, which will be great because he isn't all that good to begin with. Don't want him.
So who does that leave? Tua if he doesn't go back to Bama? No thanks. Paper mache ankles and a jacked up hip.
Hurts? No thanks.
I guess you could try and go after a QB at #20, but now you got 4 QBs in the QB room. You sure as hell aren't keeping 4 on the roster, so you have to cut Dobbs. That's just admitting that they wasted/threw away another 5th round pick.
You're better off just keeping Dobbs than drafting a QB in the mid rounds as well.
When it comes to QB at 9, I’m thinking Tua and that’s about it (assuming Burrow is gone which he will be).
If Herbert lasts until 20, I would select him. I’m not going to reach for a QB just to take one but if Burrow or Tua are at 9, I’m doing it. If Herbert is there at 20, I’d probably do that.
(01-01-2020, 09:01 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]When it comes to QB at 9, I’m thinking Tua and that’s about it (assuming Burrow is gone which he will be).
If Herbert lasts until 20, I would select him. I’m not going to reach for a QB just to take one but if Burrow or Tua are at 9, I’m doing it. If Herbert is there at 20, I’d probably do that.
Burrow absolutely, but we all know he'll be gone unless some crazy story comes out about him kicking puppies or something like that.
Is Tua even going to be medically cleared come May/June+?
Herbert is overrated imo and he's surely not helping his case tonight against Wisconsin.
After Burrow every other QB is a gamble and most likely won’t be as good as Minshew was this year. If we are going to spend a first round pick on a QB, it has to be someone damn near guaranteed.
We just have too many holes to throw away a first round pick..
(01-01-2020, 11:27 PM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ]After Burrow every other QB is a gamble and most likely won’t be as good as Minshew was this year. If we are going to spend a first round pick on a QB, it has to be someone damn near guaranteed.
We just have too many holes to throw away a first round pick..
When healthy, Tua is just as good a prospect as Burrow. Tua has elite traits and if you can build around his elite traits, you can have a franchise QB.
(12-31-2019, 03:51 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 02:30 PM)jvillejagsn1 Wrote: [ -> ]We now know that Marrone and Caldwell are here for at least another year. Also, it's been hinted that everyone on the current staff will be back. Unfortunately, that means that Goldberg's twin will remain and so our defensive scheme.
So what should we do with our existing players?
Sign or tag Ngakoue.
Move Jack to will.
Acquire capable middle linebacker.
Acquire nose tackle run stuffer.
Move Cam to guard.
Acquire Left Tackle.
Acquire CB.
Acquire TE.
Keep Calais one more year to mentor Allen but try to restructure.
Cuts: Lee, Dareus (unless he's healed well and will restructure), AJ Cann, Abry Jones, Jake Ryan, and maybe Bouye
That clears up about 48 million w/ Bouye gone, 37 million if you keep Bouye.
This ^ as a bare minimum could at least limit the ugly losses to fewer than 2019.
You definitely cut Bouye. He’s a good football player but not worth the price tag.