(12-31-2019, 06:57 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 05:03 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]Most of us on here, myself included, wanted to clean house and get rid of the FO and coaching staff. I still think that was the way to go, due to the fact there is just too much negativity in the organization that has been carried over from failing staff to next failing staff. Ultimately, I think that negativity will continue to engulf this franchise and next season will be more of the same.
That being said, there definitely is a plan in place for this franchise moving forward (whether we agree with it or not). There was a key phrase in Shad's statement that I think has been largely overlooked:
"This is not the time for an overhaul of the organization"
To me, this is more revealing than anything else that has been said today, and it means many things for the future.
1. I think Shad felt he had to choose between two options: a) going nuclear and resetting everything, with new coaching staff, FO, multiple veterans released and a full rebuild, or b) keeping most things in place and having one more shot at putting together a successful season with the current personnel. Like I said, to most of us, option a seems like a no-brainer. However, I think there are obvious reasons why Shad chose not to go this way. I think he is looking ahead, and sees next offseason as a much better "time for an overhaul of the organization". First of all, our cap situation is kind of terrible, meaning the job is massively less appealing to a new head coach and GM. However, in a year from now we will have a lot more flexibility with the cap, making the prospect of a clean sweep more appealing. Secondly, we will have a much clearer idea of whether we have our QB of the future, or we need to look to the draft in 2021 to find one (which we know has some top QB options). Again, this would allow a head coach and gm to come in and build around their guy.
2. I think this means we will see fewer veterans released than we were expecting. They've gone for the option of trying to squeeze whatever we can out of the current personnel, which means players too. I now expect Calais, AJ and a few others to return for next year. Could be wrong on this point, but if they are going to give it one last whirl, they may as well keep the talent they do have.
3. Gardner will be the QB next year, and is probably the only reason why any of these guys still have jobs today. His play is probably the only reason that Shad considers there is a possibility of having any success next year. He probably wants the same coaching staff around him for another year to make his development as smooth as possible. Imagine how bad this (already very bad) season would have been without Minshew? Nobody would have survived...
So, to be clear, I think Shad was tempted to make sweeping changes now, but ultimately looked at the roster we have, looked at the available options, and decided that after next season would be much better for an organizational overhaul. In his mind, best case scenario is Doug and Dave somehow manage to turn this ship around, Minshew develops into a top QB, and the Jags are successful. Worst case scenario (and probable scenario) is more of the same, at which point we will be at a much better "time for an overhaul of the organization". Again, I disagree with this approach, but I can see where he is coming from.
I think that makes a lot of sense.
But there is another possibility and that is that Shad thinks the odds of him finding someone better to coach and manage the team is not that great. I don't agree with that, but it's possible that he really thinks that DC and DM are good enough, and that circumstances beyond their control have derailed the team for the last 2 years.
Agreed, I think Shad has an elevated view of them both for whatever reason, and can't see a significantly better option out there.
He is also clearly committed to continuity as an modus operandi. Most of us would agree he is committed to a fault.
Well at least we aren't the Washington Redskins.
I guess I understand his possible reasoning. I may not agree with it, but I get it.
I just hope they realize, going forward, that it's live or die with improving things for Minshew and being able to stop the run on defense. Fix both trenches in the draft, and maybe....MAYBE next season we can hope for an 8-8 season. But I won't get my hopes up.
This next year is an audition for Minshew in my eyes. If he can play great despite all of the lack of talent on the team, then perhaps he's deserving of being more than just a placeholder.
(12-31-2019, 07:42 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing worse than an owner that has blinders on and keeps pointing to the 2017 season as a reason for his choices. When you look at what went wrong, it was that the roster wasn't that good and the coaching staff can't plan or get the players to execute. The AFC South is thrilled that we are standing pat, oh wait they aren't even thinking about it because 2 of them made the playoffs.
That's a good point.
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I was afraid this would happen. Now we have to wait until the end of next year before we blow it up and start over. This essentially means another wasted year.
I see us getting 5 or 6 wins next year, tops. I would be ok with that if we had a new HC/GM, but it will be hard to accept with DC/DM still running the show.
I have a feeling Shad was very aware that Coughlin's nonsense gave the players a bad feeling about the franchise and listened to what they had to say about Marrone and Caldwell and that the troops wanted both of them back. If keeping them stems the tide of defectors and helps us change the vibe for future free agents and helps keep Yan, then it may have been the best call. Myself, I didn't want a new coach who could screw up with Minshew and really Deep Six the franchise.
(12-31-2019, 06:57 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 05:03 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]Most of us on here, myself included, wanted to clean house and get rid of the FO and coaching staff. I still think that was the way to go, due to the fact there is just too much negativity in the organization that has been carried over from failing staff to next failing staff. Ultimately, I think that negativity will continue to engulf this franchise and next season will be more of the same.
That being said, there definitely is a plan in place for this franchise moving forward (whether we agree with it or not). There was a key phrase in Shad's statement that I think has been largely overlooked:
"This is not the time for an overhaul of the organization"
To me, this is more revealing than anything else that has been said today, and it means many things for the future.
1. I think Shad felt he had to choose between two options: a) going nuclear and resetting everything, with new coaching staff, FO, multiple veterans released and a full rebuild, or b) keeping most things in place and having one more shot at putting together a successful season with the current personnel. Like I said, to most of us, option a seems like a no-brainer. However, I think there are obvious reasons why Shad chose not to go this way. I think he is looking ahead, and sees next offseason as a much better "time for an overhaul of the organization". First of all, our cap situation is kind of terrible, meaning the job is massively less appealing to a new head coach and GM. However, in a year from now we will have a lot more flexibility with the cap, making the prospect of a clean sweep more appealing. Secondly, we will have a much clearer idea of whether we have our QB of the future, or we need to look to the draft in 2021 to find one (which we know has some top QB options). Again, this would allow a head coach and gm to come in and build around their guy.
2. I think this means we will see fewer veterans released than we were expecting. They've gone for the option of trying to squeeze whatever we can out of the current personnel, which means players too. I now expect Calais, AJ and a few others to return for next year. Could be wrong on this point, but if they are going to give it one last whirl, they may as well keep the talent they do have.
3. Gardner will be the QB next year, and is probably the only reason why any of these guys still have jobs today. His play is probably the only reason that Shad considers there is a possibility of having any success next year. He probably wants the same coaching staff around him for another year to make his development as smooth as possible. Imagine how bad this (already very bad) season would have been without Minshew? Nobody would have survived...
So, to be clear, I think Shad was tempted to make sweeping changes now, but ultimately looked at the roster we have, looked at the available options, and decided that after next season would be much better for an organizational overhaul. In his mind, best case scenario is Doug and Dave somehow manage to turn this ship around, Minshew develops into a top QB, and the Jags are successful. Worst case scenario (and probable scenario) is more of the same, at which point we will be at a much better "time for an overhaul of the organization". Again, I disagree with this approach, but I can see where he is coming from.
I think that makes a lot of sense.
But there is another possibility and that is that Shad thinks the odds of him finding someone better to coach and manage the team is not that great. I don't agree with that, but it's possible that he really thinks that DC and DM are good enough, and that circumstances beyond their control have derailed the team for the last 2 years.
I agree that his line of thinking is that he can't get a better canidate to come this year. We have to get out of our cap situation and just get lucky with ssome good canidates. I doubt we do better than marrone and Caldwell. Also keeping them another year makes us more attractive as a team. You know you will get several years here whereas cleveland dumps people all the time. I don't think Shad is wrong to want stability.
(12-31-2019, 05:03 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]That being said, there definitely is a plan in place for this franchise moving forward (whether we agree with it or not).
Hope is not a plan.
(12-31-2019, 05:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Hopefully the "plan" starts looking better than these results.
Dave Caldwell Draft History - Big Cat Country
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/12/31...ft-history
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With respect, it's a little disingenuous for them to stop right before the best draft in the teams history.
(01-01-2020, 01:16 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 05:29 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Hopefully the "plan" starts looking better than these results.
Dave Caldwell Draft History - Big Cat Country
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/12/31...ft-history
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With respect, it's a little disingenuous for them to stop right before the best draft in the teams history.
2016 is acknowledged. The 2019 draft with Minshew could serve as a saving grace. But 2020 will determine this.
7 years of dog [BLEEP] shouldn't be ignored though. Unless the nerd [BLEEP] the prom queen in 2020.
He ends up like a wet fart like the rest of the failures with his title.
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(12-31-2019, 08:46 PM)JaG4LyFe Wrote: [ -> ]Is this real life?
It's sure as hell not a fantasy.
Foles will be back as starter in Week1 and Minshew likely traded to avoid another distraction / controversy in 2020.
(12-31-2019, 06:44 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 05:05 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]The team has four first-round picks over the next two years. Any GM candidate worth a damn would wet his pants for that setup.
This can't be said enough.
What rookie GM wouldn't want 4 picks in the first 2 years? Throw in a promising young QB, and you probably get your choice of candidates.
Add the horrible cap situation and the warnings not to play here from the NFLPA and things balance out a bit more.
(01-01-2020, 06:14 AM)iapetus Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 06:44 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]This can't be said enough.
What rookie GM wouldn't want 4 picks in the first 2 years? Throw in a promising young QB, and you probably get your choice of candidates.
Add the horrible cap situation and the warnings not to play here from the NFLPA and things balance out a bit more.
I think the warnings not to play here went away when TC got fired. And the cap situation is manageable because of the way the free agent contracts were structured. The albatross of course is the Foles situation. That one is really awkward. But things overall are not that bad except that we have needs at almost every position.
(01-01-2020, 06:06 AM)captivating Wrote: [ -> ]Foles will be back as starter in Week1 and Minshew likely traded to avoid another distraction / controversy in 2020.
I want what you've been smoking.
(01-01-2020, 06:06 AM)captivating Wrote: [ -> ]Foles will be back as starter in Week1 and Minshew likely traded to avoid another distraction / controversy in 2020.
If TC was still in charge, I wouldn't be surprised. Marrone likes Minshew though and barring complete regression on his part or an unusual move in the offseason, he'll be the starter in 2020 and Foles will be the backup.
IMO, you can't underestimate how poor a job Tom Coughlin did in his position of EVP. The arguments rage on here, rightfully, about the performances of Caldwell and Marrone but you can lay the majority of the blame right on the incompetent EVP, the revered Tom Coughlin.
Jagjohn's post is quite good and underscores TC's incompetence. He was the guy who served as the football liaison to the Khans, he would be the one to conduct any overhaul but he couldn't stay above the fray. He meddled in Marrone's operation, he meddled with Caldwell's drafts- Fournette and Bryan have TC's fingerprints all over them.
It's pretty clear that everyone in that building was walking on eggshells since Coughlin "won lunch". What a performance...to the point where the NFLPA advised all potential FA's not to sign with the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Had Coughlin been competent or even understood what his job was, he'd be the one addressing all of Jagjohn's points.
Instead, he's gone and this smoldering mess is left behind.
(01-01-2020, 08:10 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 06:06 AM)captivating Wrote: [ -> ]Foles will be back as starter in Week1 and Minshew likely traded to avoid another distraction / controversy in 2020.
If TC was still in charge, I wouldn't be surprised. Marrone likes Minshew though and barring complete regression on his part or an unusual move in the offseason, he'll be the starter in 2020 and Foles will be the backup.
The team likes Minshew, as well.
(01-01-2020, 09:58 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (01-01-2020, 08:10 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]If TC was still in charge, I wouldn't be surprised. Marrone likes Minshew though and barring complete regression on his part or an unusual move in the offseason, he'll be the starter in 2020 and Foles will be the backup.
The team likes Minshew, as well.
No doubt. In fact, does anyone *not* like him? But Marrone will presumably have final say on who the starter is. Now.