(01-19-2020, 11:26 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2020, 09:27 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This. This pretty much sums it up best regarding any hope of gaining any type of return on Nick Foles. It'll more than likely be mid season of 2020 with a team missing it's starting QB in desperation of keeping it's play off hopes alive.
But. . . on the flip side. We could be pushing for a play off run and we may not want to ship off Foles incase *knock on wood three times* something happens to Minshew. Unless Dobbs is awesome during training camp. Remains to be seen.
LOL, I admire your optimism but this team is not going to be competing for a playoff spot in 2020. At best, we're looking at another 6-10 season.
The reason you ship Foles off is for the future. Build a healthy salary cap so you can re-sign Yan, Chark, Allen, etc. so you're not forced to trade away your best players.
I have to agree .....the future is the 2021 season
(01-19-2020, 12:20 PM)Mowerguy Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2020, 11:26 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]LOL, I admire your optimism but this team is not going to be competing for a playoff spot in 2020. At best, we're looking at another 6-10 season.
The reason you ship Foles off is for the future. Build a healthy salary cap so you can re-sign Yan, Chark, Allen, etc. so you're not forced to trade away your best players.
I have to agree .....the future is the 2021 season
Anything is possible in the NFL. There's constant turnover year over year in the play offs. While I agree on paper it looks pretty slim. For the sake of the fan base showing out with season ticket owners?
I can only remain optimistic and hopeful for a winning season, especially for them. Maybe in about 10 months from now we'll be looking at an interesting play off race between Jacksonville, Miami & Cleveland for one of those top four seeds.
I would almost say we would have to give one of those 1sts away to get a team to take Foles on. Short of a miracle, he’s gonna be the highest paid backup in the league next year.
This threads are just... wow...
If we oould get rid of Foles by giving up a 2nd and a 4th - I'd say do it. The cap savings would be more than worth it.
(01-20-2020, 09:19 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]If we oould get rid of Foles by giving up a 2nd and a 4th - I'd say do it. The cap savings would be more than worth it.
I would not give up a 2nd. We're still eating a lot of cap even trading him.
(01-20-2020, 10:07 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2020, 09:19 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]If we oould get rid of Foles by giving up a 2nd and a 4th - I'd say do it. The cap savings would be more than worth it.
I would not give up a 2nd. We're still eating a lot of cap even trading him.
A 3 million dollar cap savings is what these people are suggesting is worth a 2nd round pick.
(01-20-2020, 09:19 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]If we oould get rid of Foles by giving up a 2nd and a 4th - I'd say do it. The cap savings would be more than worth it.
Most of our players suck. Why do we need cap savings? We need to build the roster through good draft picks and suck up the hit on Foles without relinquishing draft picks.
(01-20-2020, 12:13 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2020, 10:07 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]I would not give up a 2nd. We're still eating a lot of cap even trading him.
A 3 million dollar cap savings is what these people are suggesting is worth a 2nd round pick.
Yeah... at most I'd give up a 5th with him for someone to take the contract. But in reality you're only shipping him off to not have a really expensive backup and to go "all-in" on Minshew.
The cap savings just isn't happening from trading Foles.
(01-20-2020, 12:13 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2020, 10:07 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]I would not give up a 2nd. We're still eating a lot of cap even trading him.
A 3 million dollar cap savings is what these people are suggesting is worth a 2nd round pick.
That's not true. Sure, it's a $3M cap savings in 2020, but then Foles is off the books. You cut Foles in 2021 and you take a $15M cap hit.
So in reality, it's an $18M cap savings. Think of it this way - that's enough to sign a premiere free agent or a few mid-tier free agents, which is probably more talent than we would acquire with a 2nd round pick.
(01-20-2020, 10:07 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2020, 09:19 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]If we oould get rid of Foles by giving up a 2nd and a 4th - I'd say do it. The cap savings would be more than worth it.
I would not give up a 2nd. We're still eating a lot of cap even trading him.
The situation is similar to what the Texans had to do with Brock Osweiler. Signed him to a big contract, realized he was awful, and to create salary cap space they gave up a 2nd rounder.
$18M in overall salary cap savings.
(01-20-2020, 08:22 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2020, 12:13 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]A 3 million dollar cap savings is what these people are suggesting is worth a 2nd round pick.
That's not true. Sure, it's a $3M cap savings in 2020, but then Foles is off the books. You cut Foles in 2021 and you take a $15M cap hit.
So in reality, it's an $18M cap savings. Think of it this way - that's enough to sign a premiere free agent or a few mid-tier free agents, which is probably more talent than we would acquire with a 2nd round pick.
(01-20-2020, 10:07 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]I would not give up a 2nd. We're still eating a lot of cap even trading him.
The situation is similar to what the Texans had to do with Brock Osweiler. Signed him to a big contract, realized he was awful, and to create salary cap space they gave up a 2nd rounder.
$18M in overall salary cap savings.
Cutting Foles after 2020 is a 12.5 mil cap hit. Not 15mil.
Comparing the Osweiler situation makes some sense - but trading away a second round pick when you can just afford to wait until the 20/21 offseason to release Foles... that seems unwise.
I'd plan on just keeping him for 2020 if a QB-needy team doesn't approach with an offer that doesn't involve forfeiting an early pick.
isn’t it possible to trade him and more of his salary theoretically? I ask, because I think I would need more than 3m off the books next year to consider trading our second rounder.
(01-20-2020, 11:57 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]isn’t it possible to trade him and more of his salary theoretically? I ask, because I think I would need more than 3m off the books next year to consider trading our second rounder.
No, it's not. His cap problem is dead cap, not salary, so a trade just accelerates that hit into either 2021 (12.5 million) or 21 and 22 (6.25 each). Trade him before June 1 this year and his cap number here is 18.75, 3 million less than if he's on the roster. Trade him after June 1 and he costs 6.25 this year and still costs 12.5 next season. The Jags are going to take a 12.5 million dollar cap hit one way or another, and it's actually higher in the scenarios we have this off season.
The way I read it the Osweiler deal was different, the Texans traded him so Cleveland would pay his future guaranteed salary, not relieve them of dead cap. Trading Foles this year the Jags still take a huge cap hit, we will just take the hit and keep Foles one more year.
No point in trading Foles. Worst case scenario, he is a really experienced, albeit really expensive back up.
(01-21-2020, 07:07 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2020, 11:57 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]isn’t it possible to trade him and more of his salary theoretically? I ask, because I think I would need more than 3m off the books next year to consider trading our second rounder.
No, it's not. His cap problem is dead cap, not salary, so a trade just accelerates that hit into either 2021 (12.5 million) or 21 and 22 (6.25 each). Trade him before June 1 this year and his cap number here is 18.75, 3 million less than if he's on the roster. Trade him after June 1 and he costs 6.25 this year and still costs 12.5 next season. The Jags are going to take a 12.5 million dollar cap hit one way or another, and it's actually higher in the scenarios we have this off season.
The way I read it the Osweiler deal was different, the Texans traded him so Cleveland would pay his future guaranteed salary, not relieve them of dead cap. Trading Foles this year the Jags still take a huge cap hit, we will just take the hit and keep Foles one more year.
Good post, but just one minor thing- there is no post-June 1 designation this year. I googled it, because I vaguely recalled that there is no June 1 stuff this year, and found out that the end of the CBA means there is no "next year" to which teams can designate part of a salary cap hit.
https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/news/how-t...-decisions
(01-21-2020, 08:21 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (01-21-2020, 07:07 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]No, it's not. His cap problem is dead cap, not salary, so a trade just accelerates that hit into either 2021 (12.5 million) or 21 and 22 (6.25 each). Trade him before June 1 this year and his cap number here is 18.75, 3 million less than if he's on the roster. Trade him after June 1 and he costs 6.25 this year and still costs 12.5 next season. The Jags are going to take a 12.5 million dollar cap hit one way or another, and it's actually higher in the scenarios we have this off season.
The way I read it the Osweiler deal was different, the Texans traded him so Cleveland would pay his future guaranteed salary, not relieve them of dead cap. Trading Foles this year the Jags still take a huge cap hit, we will just take the hit and keep Foles one more year.
Good post, but just one minor thing- there is no post-June 1 designation this year. I googled it, because I vaguely recalled that there is no June 1 stuff this year, and found out that the end of the CBA means there is no "next year" to which teams can designate part of a salary cap hit.
https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/news/how-t...-decisions
Yep, the Jaguars screwed themselves right well by making sure everyone in the locker room understood Foles is the undisputed starter.
(01-20-2020, 08:22 PM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-20-2020, 12:13 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]A 3 million dollar cap savings is what these people are suggesting is worth a 2nd round pick.
That's not true. Sure, it's a $3M cap savings in 2020, but then Foles is off the books. You cut Foles in 2021 and you take a $15M cap hit.
So in reality, it's an $18M cap savings. Think of it this way - that's enough to sign a premiere free agent or a few mid-tier free agents, which is probably more talent than we would acquire with a 2nd round pick.
(01-20-2020, 10:07 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]I would not give up a 2nd. We're still eating a lot of cap even trading him.
The situation is similar to what the Texans had to do with Brock Osweiler. Signed him to a big contract, realized he was awful, and to create salary cap space they gave up a 2nd rounder.
$18M in overall salary cap savings.
Houston shipped off Osweiler with a 6th round pick of the same year (2017) and a future (2018) 2nd rounder. They also rec'd a 4th from 2017 from the Browns. The Browns also at the time had 100 mil free on their cap.
Houston immediately got 16 mil off their books whereas we still eat most of his money and trading Foles only SAVES us 3,125,000 on the cap. The rest of the cap hit is there for this year regardless. (Use Spotrac to manage salary cap roster and see for yourself.)
I'm not against shipping Foles and a late rounder to shed his contract. But no matter how you slice it, we're eating most of his contract this year no matter what.
Sending a 2nd round pick off with him just isn't going to happen because it isn't smart.
(01-21-2020, 07:41 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]No point in trading Foles. Worst case scenario, he is a really experienced, albeit really expensive back up.
Yeah... with a 6th rounder as a starter we don't have that much tied up in the position really. And I think this is the route we take. "QB comp" in camp. With Minshew "winning".
I use quotes cuz I'd like to think that they are leaning toward Minshew being the guy anyway. But we'll see.
(01-21-2020, 08:21 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (01-21-2020, 07:07 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]No, it's not. His cap problem is dead cap, not salary, so a trade just accelerates that hit into either 2021 (12.5 million) or 21 and 22 (6.25 each). Trade him before June 1 this year and his cap number here is 18.75, 3 million less than if he's on the roster. Trade him after June 1 and he costs 6.25 this year and still costs 12.5 next season. The Jags are going to take a 12.5 million dollar cap hit one way or another, and it's actually higher in the scenarios we have this off season.
The way I read it the Osweiler deal was different, the Texans traded him so Cleveland would pay his future guaranteed salary, not relieve them of dead cap. Trading Foles this year the Jags still take a huge cap hit, we will just take the hit and keep Foles one more year.
Good post, but just one minor thing- there is no post-June 1 designation this year. I googled it, because I vaguely recalled that there is no June 1 stuff this year, and found out that the end of the CBA means there is no "next year" to which teams can designate part of a salary cap hit.
https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/news/how-t...-decisions
Yes you're right, the CBA ends, but we can't really speculate on what the new one will be like so I'm just using the current CBA terms. I still don't think the Jags can take an 18 million dollar hit this year for a guy who isn't on the roster (even in a back up capacity).
I do believe the best hope is for Foles to “evaluate, reflect and realize it is in his best interests to retire.”
I thought I read he might just retire. couldn't we also trade him the the bears or someone willing for the 2nd and 4th and we also get another player at a position of need? That way maybe they are on the hook for said players salary and we are on the hook for roles but we still fill a need. Cant we do that?