(01-21-2020, 03:40 PM)AlsJagsFan Wrote: [ -> ]I thought I read he might just retire. couldn't we also trade him the the bears or someone willing for the 2nd and 4th and we also get another player at a position of need? That way maybe they are on the hook for said players salary and we are on the hook for roles but we still fill a need. Cant we do that?
The idea of getting rid of a 2nd round pick in a draft with lots of OL, DL, and DB talent to be had in the 2nd is crazy.
Bears cap situation isn't friendly. The idea of swapping cap crippling players is nice, in theory... but they'd have to have an equally overpaid player at a position we need, that they are willing to part with for Foles (and while Trubisky probably isn't "the guy" Foles is a one year stop gap type QB at best)
It's just a lot of wishes and if's I think.
Hopefully he retires... saves us a lot of money and cap issues. Saves him some face but many people have pointed out... why would he retire, if relegated to expensive back up, it's some good ched to collect to do nothing. If he starts and gets injured, money is gtd probably.
Trading him might be an option but to send off a 3rd or higher with him to unload a small cap hit isn't worth it. You're essentially trading away a future starter and possible franchise player at a number of positions just to unload a contract that we're already taking the big cap hit on no matter if he's here or not.
Ideally someone like Miami (lots of cap space) would be willing to take him as a stop gap while redshirting Tua and would only need a late round pick with him (5th or later)
(01-21-2020, 04:11 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (01-21-2020, 03:40 PM)AlsJagsFan Wrote: [ -> ]I thought I read he might just retire. couldn't we also trade him the the bears or someone willing for the 2nd and 4th and we also get another player at a position of need? That way maybe they are on the hook for said players salary and we are on the hook for roles but we still fill a need. Cant we do that?
The idea of getting rid of a 2nd round pick in a draft with lots of OL, DL, and DB talent to be had in the 2nd is crazy.
Bears cap situation isn't friendly. The idea of swapping cap crippling players is nice, in theory... but they'd have to have an equally overpaid player at a position we need, that they are willing to part with for Foles (and while Trubisky probably isn't "the guy" Foles is a one year stop gap type QB at best)
It's just a lot of wishes and if's I think.
Hopefully he retires... saves us a lot of money and cap issues. Saves him some face but many people have pointed out... why would he retire, if relegated to expensive back up, it's some good ched to collect to do nothing. If he starts and gets injured, money is gtd probably.
Trading him might be an option but to send off a 3rd or higher with him to unload a small cap hit isn't worth it. You're essentially trading away a future starter and possible franchise player at a number of positions just to unload a contract that we're already taking the big cap hit on no matter if he's here or not.
Ideally someone like Miami (lots of cap space) would be willing to take him as a stop gap while redshirting Tua and would only need a late round pick with him (5th or later)
I totally agree, trading him and a pick to save a few million isn't worth it. Hopefully he retires and if he doesn't maybe we can find someone willing to trade player for player.
(01-21-2020, 03:33 PM)NCJag Wrote: [ -> ]I do believe the best hope is for Foles to “evaluate, reflect and realize it is in his best interests to retire.”
Even if he does, we take the $18.75M cap hit. The only way we don't is if he either agrees to repay back the bonus money, or we sue him for the amortized amount and are awarded compensation.
We painted ourselves into a corner with his contract, and we are not going to get out without it getting messy, one way or the other.
(01-19-2020, 11:26 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2020, 09:27 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]This. This pretty much sums it up best regarding any hope of gaining any type of return on Nick Foles. It'll more than likely be mid season of 2020 with a team missing it's starting QB in desperation of keeping it's play off hopes alive.
But. . . on the flip side. We could be pushing for a play off run and we may not want to ship off Foles incase *knock on wood three times* something happens to Minshew. Unless Dobbs is awesome during training camp. Remains to be seen.
LOL, I admire your optimism but this team is not going to be competing for a playoff spot in 2020. At best, we're looking at another 6-10 season.
The reason you ship Foles off is for the future. Build a healthy salary cap so you can re-sign Yan, Chark, Allen, etc. so you're not forced to trade away your best players.
That's positive thinking... I'm noticing you're one of those Jag fans....
(01-22-2020, 09:46 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (01-21-2020, 03:33 PM)NCJag Wrote: [ -> ]I do believe the best hope is for Foles to “evaluate, reflect and realize it is in his best interests to retire.”
Even if he does, we take the $18.75M cap hit. The only way we don't is if he either agrees to repay back the bonus money, or we sue him for the amortized amount and are awarded compensation.
We painted ourselves into a corner with his contract, and we are not going to get out without it getting messy, one way or the other.
It's not messy to pay 19.4 million for your QB room next year, this is all just absurdity speaking out of emotion. Foles will be here and play a role as either the comeback starter or veteran backup.
(01-25-2020, 12:04 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2020, 09:46 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Even if he does, we take the $18.75M cap hit. The only way we don't is if he either agrees to repay back the bonus money, or we sue him for the amortized amount and are awarded compensation.
We painted ourselves into a corner with his contract, and we are not going to get out without it getting messy, one way or the other.
It's not messy to pay 19.4 million for your QB room next year, this is all just absurdity speaking out of emotion. Foles will be here and play a role as either the comeback starter or veteran backup.
I agree. This isn't the problem everyone makes it out to be. Either Nick wins the job or Gardner does. At this point, I think it's Minshew's to lose. But too many people here are concluding Foles is a scrub based on a 4 game sample. We could do a lot worse than have him as a backup. Even in an offense designed for Minshew (which Gruden should do), the OL is (hopefully) going to be better. We may be glad come November that we have a backup the quality of Nick Foles on the team. If Gardner proves to be our franchise guy, THEN you make the decision to cut Foles after 2020 season.
(01-25-2020, 08:55 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 12:04 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It's not messy to pay 19.4 million for your QB room next year, this is all just absurdity speaking out of emotion. Foles will be here and play a role as either the comeback starter or veteran backup.
I agree. This isn't the problem everyone makes it out to be. Either Nick wins the job or Gardner does. At this point, I think it's Minshew's to lose. But too many people here are concluding Foles is a scrub based on a 4 game sample. We could do a lot worse than have him as a backup. Even in an offense designed for Minshew (which Gruden should do), the OL is (hopefully) going to be better. We may be glad come November that we have a backup the quality of Nick Foles on the team. If Gardner proves to be our franchise guy, THEN you make the decision to cut Foles after 2020 season.
If you think Nick is even worthy of being considered our starting QB, you’re delusional. He clearly has nothing left in the tank, we saw it this year. Gardner is not only a better QB, he’s exactly the hero that this small market team needs. He will sell tickets, and help keep us relevant. Nick is a great guy, I hate to see how things panned out here, but it is what it is. This is Gardner’s team. Nick will back him up, and then he’s trade bait in 2021.
(01-25-2020, 09:09 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 08:55 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]I agree. This isn't the problem everyone makes it out to be. Either Nick wins the job or Gardner does. At this point, I think it's Minshew's to lose. But too many people here are concluding Foles is a scrub based on a 4 game sample. We could do a lot worse than have him as a backup. Even in an offense designed for Minshew (which Gruden should do), the OL is (hopefully) going to be better. We may be glad come November that we have a backup the quality of Nick Foles on the team. If Gardner proves to be our franchise guy, THEN you make the decision to cut Foles after 2020 season.
If you think Nick is even worthy of being considered our starting QB, you’re delusional. He clearly has nothing left in the tank, we saw it this year. Gardner is not only a better QB, he’s exactly the hero that this small market team needs. He will sell tickets, and help keep us relevant. Nick is a great guy, I hate to see how things panned out here, but it is what it is. This is Gardner’s team. Nick will back him up, and then he’s trade bait in 2021.
If Nick is as washed up as you say he is, neither we nor Gardner have anything to fear. What we saw was a four game sample of him coming back from injury behind a trash O-Line.
We essentially agree. Minshew will be our qb for 2020. But I didn't use incendiary language to overstate my case.
(01-25-2020, 09:17 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 09:09 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]If you think Nick is even worthy of being considered our starting QB, you’re delusional. He clearly has nothing left in the tank, we saw it this year. Gardner is not only a better QB, he’s exactly the hero that this small market team needs. He will sell tickets, and help keep us relevant. Nick is a great guy, I hate to see how things panned out here, but it is what it is. This is Gardner’s team. Nick will back him up, and then he’s trade bait in 2021.
If Nick is as washed up as you say he is, neither we nor Gardner have anything to fear. What we saw was a four game sample of him coming back from injury behind a trash O-Line.
We essentially agree. Minshew will be our qb for 2020. But I didn't use incendiary language to overstate my case.
Exactly this... I don't think Nick is washed up... But he was coming back from an injury and playing behind a garbage O-line... So we can't possibly say he's washed up we don't know... Put Nick behind a stellar O-line and people may think differently... That being said do the same thing for Minshew... stellar O-line and a year of playing under his belt... At this point it's Gardner's job to lose.... Imagine this kid had time to throw... He would be unstoppable.... Now as far as selling tickets... winning sells tickets no matter who the quarterback is...
(01-25-2020, 09:44 AM)nejagsfan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 09:17 AM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]If Nick is as washed up as you say he is, neither we nor Gardner have anything to fear. What we saw was a four game sample of him coming back from injury behind a trash O-Line.
We essentially agree. Minshew will be our qb for 2020. But I didn't use incendiary language to overstate my case.
Exactly this... I don't think Nick is washed up... But he was coming back from an injury and playing behind a garbage O-line... So we can't possibly say he's washed up we don't know... Put Nick behind a stellar O-line and people may think differently... That being said do the same thing for Minshew... stellar O-line and a year of playing under his belt... At this point it's Gardner's job to lose.... Imagine this kid had time to throw... He would be unstoppable.... Now as far as selling tickets... winning sells tickets no matter who the quarterback is...
Looks more like he ate the pizza, so to speak, and just isn't hungry anymore. Remember the garbage last offseason when Foles decided to take it easy? I don't want a QB that said he doesn't need to throw and practice, I want a QB that lives and breathes football and feels like he's losing ground any time he's not thinking football. I like Gardner, but his road trip makes me think he might not have what it takes, either. We'll see next year. My guess is Foles is out of the league after the 2020 season.
(01-25-2020, 01:50 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 09:44 AM)nejagsfan Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly this... I don't think Nick is washed up... But he was coming back from an injury and playing behind a garbage O-line... So we can't possibly say he's washed up we don't know... Put Nick behind a stellar O-line and people may think differently... That being said do the same thing for Minshew... stellar O-line and a year of playing under his belt... At this point it's Gardner's job to lose.... Imagine this kid had time to throw... He would be unstoppable.... Now as far as selling tickets... winning sells tickets no matter who the quarterback is...
Looks more like he ate the pizza, so to speak, and just isn't hungry anymore. Remember the garbage last offseason when Foles decided to take it easy? I don't want a QB that said he doesn't need to throw and practice, I want a QB that lives and breathes football and feels like he's losing ground any time he's not thinking football. I like Gardner, but his road trip makes me think he might not have what it takes, either. We'll see next year. My guess is Foles is out of the league after the 2020 season.
You ought to follow Minshew on Instagram. He worked out with the Permian Panthers on the way through Texas. He’s also attending a QB camp this summer. The road trip is already back where it started. The guy can’t get a 2-3 week vacation? He didn’t even know who his OC would be until this week.
(01-25-2020, 01:50 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 09:44 AM)nejagsfan Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly this... I don't think Nick is washed up... But he was coming back from an injury and playing behind a garbage O-line... So we can't possibly say he's washed up we don't know... Put Nick behind a stellar O-line and people may think differently... That being said do the same thing for Minshew... stellar O-line and a year of playing under his belt... At this point it's Gardner's job to lose.... Imagine this kid had time to throw... He would be unstoppable.... Now as far as selling tickets... winning sells tickets no matter who the quarterback is...
Looks more like he ate the pizza, so to speak, and just isn't hungry anymore. Remember the garbage last offseason when Foles decided to take it easy? I don't want a QB that said he doesn't need to throw and practice, I want a QB that lives and breathes football and feels like he's losing ground any time he's not thinking football. I like Gardner, but his road trip makes me think he might not have what it takes, either. We'll see next year. My guess is Foles is out of the league after the 2020 season.
Livin' up to that user name again I see.
(01-25-2020, 03:59 PM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 01:50 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Looks more like he ate the pizza, so to speak, and just isn't hungry anymore. Remember the garbage last offseason when Foles decided to take it easy? I don't want a QB that said he doesn't need to throw and practice, I want a QB that lives and breathes football and feels like he's losing ground any time he's not thinking football. I like Gardner, but his road trip makes me think he might not have what it takes, either. We'll see next year. My guess is Foles is out of the league after the 2020 season.
You ought to follow Minshew on Instagram. He worked out with the Permian Panthers on the way through Texas. He’s also attending a QB camp this summer. The road trip is already back where it started. The guy can’t get a 2-3 week vacation? He didn’t even know who his OC would be until this week.
Glad to hear it wasn't a meandering multi month affair, had nothing to do with my take on Foles, but hopefully Minshew is already hard at work making sure he and Gruden are on the same page.
(01-25-2020, 12:04 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-22-2020, 09:46 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Even if he does, we take the $18.75M cap hit. The only way we don't is if he either agrees to repay back the bonus money, or we sue him for the amortized amount and are awarded compensation.
We painted ourselves into a corner with his contract, and we are not going to get out without it getting messy, one way or the other.
It's not messy to pay 19.4 million for your QB room next year, this is all just absurdity speaking out of emotion. Foles will be here and play a role as either the comeback starter or veteran backup.
my response was in regard to the best bet being Foles' retirement. There's still plenty of damage done to the cap should that happen. Wouldn't you be happier if our QB room only cost 14-15M next season? Sweet mercy, could you imagine how miserable a state the franchise would be in had we passed on Minshew? Egads.
Personally, I am in agreement that our best bet is to keep him for next season, at the very least we get an additional year of Foles' tutelage of Minshew. I don't want to eat almost 19M in cap AND still need to find a serviceable backup too.
Short of another team offering to swap mid round picks and take on Foles, it’s not worth it. Maybe like Jags give up a 3rd along with Foles and get a 5th or a solid player.
His salary isn’t THAT high. It is actually pretty low for a starting QB. Might as well keep him for the year because the QB room is STILL cheaper than most. Focus on building around Minshew through the draft.
(01-27-2020, 10:32 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 12:04 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]It's not messy to pay 19.4 million for your QB room next year, this is all just absurdity speaking out of emotion. Foles will be here and play a role as either the comeback starter or veteran backup.
my response was in regard to the best bet being Foles' retirement. There's still plenty of damage done to the cap should that happen. Wouldn't you be happier if our QB room only cost 14-15M next season? Sweet mercy, could you imagine how miserable a state the franchise would be in had we passed on Minshew? Egads.
Personally, I am in agreement that our best bet is to keep him for next season, at the very least we get an additional year of Foles' tutelage of Minshew. I don't want to eat almost 19M in cap AND still need to find a serviceable backup too.
Thanks for the clarification, I agree with you.
(01-27-2020, 11:01 AM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ]Short of another team offering to swap mid round picks and take on Foles, it’s not worth it. Maybe like Jags give up a 3rd along with Foles and get a 5th or a solid player.
His salary isn’t THAT high. It is actually pretty low for a starting QB. Might as well keep him for the year because the QB room is STILL cheaper than most. Focus on building around Minshew through the draft.
I'm not sure I'd give up even a 7th round pick to save the $3 million in cap space that trading Foles would return.
Trading picks to get rid of Foles' contract for a 3mil cap savings is a waste.
I had a dream the other night that it was Game 3 and Gardner already had 28 TDs.
That was quite a dream.