Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Jags want 'big jump' from Minshew in second season

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001...ond-season


With the Nick Foles trade to Chicago now official, Gardner Minshew is the starting quarterback in Jacksonville, and Jaguars coach Doug Marrone expects a big improvement in the QB's sophomore season.

What is there to improve? He had incredible numbers for a ROOKIE in the NFL. I’d be fine if he put up this same numbers on a 16 game scale (About 30TD, 10-12INT)

That’s already better than most QBs in the league

(04-01-2020, 08:33 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]What is there to improve?

...

two things:

*fumbles

*staying on script/going through progression of reads quicker

(this second task is largely dependant on the o-line, however it was clear last year that Minshew needed to tighten up the stuff that required quick decision making from the pocket)

He seemed to get a handle on his fumbles (I'll own that pun) pretty quick. As a mobile slinger he tended to hold the ball away from his body. He realized he had underestimated two things: the speed of the pro game, and the abilities of his O line to protect him.

(04-01-2020, 08:33 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]What is there to improve? He had incredible numbers for a ROOKIE in the NFL. I’d be fine if he put up this same numbers on a 16 game scale (About 30TD, 10-12INT)

That’s already better than most QBs in the league

Should've stopped at the rookie point. He was a good rookie for sure.

He was far from already better than most QBs in the league. His 117 INT%+ is really the only area you can say he was above average, and as NYC pointed out if you include fumbles his turnover rate was probably average at best too. Otherwise, his YPA+, comp%+, TD%+, pass rating+ were all a little below average.

We definitely need him to take a big jump.

(04-01-2020, 08:48 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]He seemed to get a handle on his fumbles (I'll own that pun) pretty quick. As a mobile slinger he tended to hold the ball away from his body. He realized he had underestimated two things: the speed of the pro game, and the abilities of his O line to protect him.

While he did "clamp down" on the fumbling, he didn't completely get a firm grip on it. 
(8 fumbles in his first 7 games -- 5 fumbles in the remaining 7 games)

Agreed. He does need to make a significant jump in year two. While his ability to improvise and create plays outside of the pocket was nice to see he also exposed himself at times which led to several fumbles. While he may not throw a ton of INT's he still needs to improve his ball security ability.

I would also like to see, and believe we WILL see is a decrease with his happy feet and an increase with his patience and progressions. He would make some pretty quick reads and display a pretty quick release at times but he was also too eager to take off at times and he would also, while in this same breath, hold onto the football too long.

I admire his willingness to hang in there and take a lick for a good play downfield. He did that a number of times. We're just looking for a happy balance here at this point. I think he'll get there. And I think it'll be due to a lot of work that gets put in this year between Jay and Ben in the QB room with him. I really, really think those two hires are going to be a difference maker this year.

He has pretty good mechanics already. I think the game should slow down for him this year but I expect defenses to get more creative against him and he's going to need to be ready. It was punch last year. It's counter punch this year. He'll have to get better from the pocket as it's no secret that he can escape and make you pay for it.

Also, as the offenses in the NFL continue to trend towards guys like him, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes & Deshaun Watson it's only a matter of time before defenses start keying in on that and putting a stop to a lot of that. I think you're starting to see it now. Look at this year's LB class. These guys are getting faster and faster. And this is in order to keep up with the mobile QB's and speedy skill position players at the TE position and slot receiving position.

He has to show case the ability to win more from the pocket. And save those legs and improv plays when the game is on the line. Like he did in Denver. Not asking him to do that EVERY week. But I do have my concerns with him. He had a knee brace on at some point last year. And I think he hurt his groin as well. A lot of that is from running around and bending yourself like gumby in awkward tackling situations.

(04-01-2020, 08:57 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-01-2020, 08:48 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]He seemed to get a handle on his fumbles (I'll own that pun) pretty quick. As a mobile slinger he tended to hold the ball away from his body. He realized he had underestimated two things: the speed of the pro game, and the abilities of his O line to protect him.

While he did "clamp down" on the fumbling, he didn't completely get a firm grip on it. 
(8 fumbles in his first 7 games -- 5 fumbles in the remaining 7 games)

Another aspect of growth which lessened his fumble numbers was overcoming the tendency to hold on to the ball too long. His rookie ambition to complete the play paid dividends on occasion, such as the epic scramble in Denver, but it made him a target for forced fumbles. Not to mention self preservation. Getting slammed by a 230 lb. defender has got to hurt.

Also as a reminder, fumbles are WAY worse than interceptions. Minshew just throwing some of those 50/50 balls and maybe having a few more armpunt INTs instead of holding on extra long and losing a fumble would have worked out better for the team. Especially since maybe Chark or whoever comes down with a handful of them.

Mishew was pretty pathetic in the 2nd half of the season (December) when teams finally studied film on him.  Am I the only one that watched the December games against the Bucs, Chargers, and Falcons.  Heck, even against the Raiders, he was pretty lame until they went into prevent defense in the 4th quarter.

December 2019
Bucs -  Jags down 25-0 at halftime and had 3 points through 3 quarters
Raiders - Jags down 16-3 at halftime and had 6 points through 3 quarters
Chargers - Jags down 24-3 at halftime and 41-10 through 3 quarters
Falcons - Jags down 17-3 at halftime and had 6 points through 3 quarters.

Summarized -- in 4 games, the Jags had a total of 9 points in the 1st half (losing 92 to 9)

Summarized - in 4 games, the Jags had a total of 25 points by the end of the 3rd quarter.


THIS IS [BLEEP] PATHETIC !!!

(04-01-2020, 09:34 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Mishew was pretty pathetic in the 2nd half of the season (December) when teams finally studied film on him.  Am I the only one that watched the December games against the Bucs, Chargers, and Falcons.  Heck, even against the Raiders, he was pretty lame until they went into prevent defense in the 4th quarter.

December 2019
Bucs -  Jags down 25-0 at halftime and had 3 points through 3 quarters
Raiders - Jags down 16-3 at halftime and had 6 points through 3 quarters
Chargers - Jags down 24-3 at halftime and 41-10 through 3 quarters
Falcons - Jags down 17-3 at halftime and had 6 points through 3 quarters.

Summarized -- in 4 games, the Jags had a total of 9 points in the 1st half (losing 92 to 9)

Summarized - in 4 games, the Jags had a total of 25 points by the end of the 3rd quarter.


THIS IS [BLEEP] PATHETIC !!!

Minshew shares those struggles with the O-Line to be fair, but he indeed was hampered by teams studying film from that saints game.

He needs to work on fumbles and not seeing wide open WRs. All of which will be fixed/improved once we fix the O-line.

He needs to spend time bagging groceries. Then when he comes back he will make that big jump, leading the Jaguars to the Super Bowl.

(04-01-2020, 09:45 AM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]He needs to spend time bagging groceries. Then when he comes back he will make that big jump,  leading the Jaguars to the Super Bowl.

(04-01-2020, 09:34 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only one that watched the December games against the Bucs, Chargers, and Falcons.  

Yes.

(04-01-2020, 09:54 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-01-2020, 09:34 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only one that watched the December games against the Bucs, Chargers, and Falcons.  

Yes.

Yes, this is very apparent, and yes, it was painful

(04-01-2020, 10:08 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-01-2020, 09:54 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Yes.

Yes, this is very apparent, and yes, it was painful

To be honest I really did stop watching after the 3rd quarter of the first clots game. I was just so beaten down as a fan from the London game and then we came out and starting stinking it up again. The writing was on the wall.

However... I'm not surprised that by mid season teams had a bead on Minshew and he wasn't as effective as earlier in the season. The point is, though, that he showed quite a bit during those earlier games to have some hope that there is something there to build on. A little better protection from his OL. A little more production from the tight end position (he and James O were clicking quite well prior to his ACL). And yeah, Minshew has to see the field better, know when to check it down and when to take the shot. And of course, he needs to protect the ball better.
These are things a lot of rookies have to work out from year 1 to year 2. But Minshew was a 6th rounder... he wasn't some guy that was supposed to come in and be great right away. And yet, in some areas, he was.

I get people's trepidation. I mean, I'm a big fan, but I called the move to go back to Foles the right one when it happened because of how Minshew was struggling to really see the field (I was wrong, I think we probably should have just let him keep taking his lumps) But if he gets a little bit better at those things and the team around him improves slightly, there's reason to think that he and the season can be a good one.
Of course, if he doesn't improve... it's easy to cut bait on a 6th round pick and go all-in on another QB prospect later. But when we were 4-4 mid season I think a lot of us saw the kid had something a little special, something to build on, and many of us had high hopes for the 2nd half of the season. He hit a rookie wall for sure... but he can make a sophomore jump.

Let's also not forget that he was the 178th overall pick in last year's draft and was thrust into the line-up and at least managed to help this team gain six wins. The offensive line has been bad for awhile. I think a lot of people either didn't want to accept that or finally realized it after Bortles was no longer back there doing his best Ben Roethlisberger impersonations. And Foles was rocked a few times standing still.

The defense was also atrociously bad. On a historical level they were one of the worst defenses during a stretch of games that had not been seen since the likes of the Buccaneers in the 1980's. I think another thing needs to be mentioned about Minshew (since his December games were brought up). Let's not forget this team made the decision after London to bench him in favor of Foles for three weeks.

This would only all but stall any chemistry and progressions he was making at that time as he was undoubtedly losing valuable 1st team snaps during practice week to week and was regulated to taking a back seat in the film room and game plan room with Foles back in the line up. Let's also not forget that he came back in and at least started helping this team win again.

There's certain things about this kid that need to be recognized. Especially given just how [BLEEP] this franchise has been ran between Khan and Caldwell. He's not perfect. But he's a whole hell of a lot better than what was expected in 2019. And I think he has the work ethic and track record of elevating himself in this sport. So I think we'll be in good hands if I am being honest.

(04-01-2020, 10:38 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Let's also not forget that he was the 178th overall pick in last year's draft and was thrust into the line-up and at least managed to help this team gain six wins.

He definitely gets check marks for that, but it was also part of why he was able to explode out of the gates like he did. Opponents had zero book on him and he had no pressure. It took a month for teams to realize that he was really damn good at throwing back shoulder sideline balls.

That's what's going to be so interesting about this year. He's the guy, and everyone is going to know that. Let's see how he fares.

This situation is a true win-win for us this upcoming season.

We find out whether or not Minshew is the real deal - and build a team around him/the Jags to succeed.

Or we're in play for Trevor Lawrence in the following draft.