Here it is: another offseason thread. This one seems rather important to me however, so I’ll join in on the fun.
This team has plenty of needs. Everything ranging from interior D-Line, Defensive backs, Depth on the roster, and uncertainty at the TE position. With that being said, the one group that I left out is of utmost importance - the offensive line.
Not too different from the group of guys who played relatively well in 2017.. an offense that excelled in run-blocking and pounding the rock. A couple of tweaks and this group finds itself seeking a new identity in 2020 .. a running back who has proven to be effective, but may not be quite The workhorse that we once thought he was. A young scrappy QB, who can extend plays. A group of Tight Ends who can’t seem to keep from getting flipped on their heads. A group of young WRs, hungry for NFL stardom..
I believe that it is in our best interest to draft an OT. I like Jedrick Willis Jr., RT from Bama. He excels in pass blocking and has battled against numerous NFL level prospects in the SEC. I believe that we can replace Cam with him, possibly move Cam inside and ditch somebody like Norwell or Cann.
It is extremely important for Minshew’s development as a QB that we protect him.. Let’s take the extra steps to do what this team hasn’t done in over a decade - build from the trenches.
Sorry, meant to put this in the College thread.
I think our number one offseason priority needs to be stopping the run. When we lost 5 games in a row last year, the main thing that happened was, we could not stop the run at all. If we can't stop the run, that puts enormous pressure on the offense to make up for it.
So the first question has to be, have we done enough yet to stop the run.
I honestly think our OL isn't completely terrible. I think one OL piece should be added within the first 3 rounds but I'd hate to see them reach for a guy. Like Thomas at 9 doesn't do it for me.
Maybe a Josh Jones at 20, slide Cam inside...
Or Wirfs at 9 if he's there and let him and Cam battle for LT and slide the 'loser' of that comp inside. (I think Wirfs can be an all pro guard personally)
Minshew actually caused quite a few of the sacks last year doing rookie things.
Taylor our RT was awful some games, but he was a rookie a greatly improved toward the latter half of the season.
Robinson was coming off an ACL injury. Norwell wasn't nearly as bad as fans would make you think, if you just forget about Caldwell and Coughlin making him the highest paid guard in the league. Linder as usual was solid.
Cann is trash and Richardson wasn't good enough to supplant him. That RG spot needs to be addressed but in this draft it can be done in the 2nd or 3rd round, if we miss out on a top talent like Wirfs.
Personally I'm not panicked about our OL. If there is a proper fit, sure upgrade it. But don't reach when we could get a stud DT, CB, or even WR. Just remember, teams just ran all over us for most of the year. We can't let that happen again and we can't bank on Scho and Woods being the save all there. And our CBs as it stands right now are Herndon and....uh... some other dudes.
(04-16-2020, 09:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think our number one offseason priority needs to be stopping the run. When we lost 5 games in a row last year, the main thing that happened was, we could not stop the run at all. If we can't stop the run, that puts enormous pressure on the offense to make up for it.
So the first question has to be, have we done enough yet to stop the run.
They did half of the "run D fix" work with the Schobert signing.
They added some rotational DTs which may be helpful, but they still need a stud nose tackle to gum up the middle so Schobert has time to read and react to the ball carrier.
It's not a stretch to say you can safely prioritize taking an OT ahead of a NT due to positional value.
Regardless of how they end up falling and who Caldwell and company choose, my ideal scenario involves an OT, a CB and a NT/DT happening within the first 4 picks. You can prioritize them however you like really, but CB and OT get tougher to land quality the longer you wait.
NT can often be hit on in mid rounds comparatively.
Al Woods has been one of the best run defenders in the league over the past 5 years or so, just old and injured so relatively unheralded
(04-16-2020, 09:28 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]Here it is: another offseason thread. This one seems rather important to me however, so I’ll join in on the fun.
This team has plenty of needs. Everything ranging from interior D-Line, Defensive backs, Depth on the roster, and uncertainty at the TE position. With that being said, the one group that I left out is of utmost importance - the offensive line.
Not too different from the group of guys who played relatively well in 2017.. an offense that excelled in run-blocking and pounding the rock. A couple of tweaks and this group finds itself seeking a new identity in 2020 .. a running back who has proven to be effective, but may not be quite The workhorse that we once thought he was. A young scrappy QB, who can extend plays. A group of Tight Ends who can’t seem to keep from getting flipped on their heads. A group of young WRs, hungry for NFL stardom..
I believe that it is in our best interest to draft an OT. I like Jedrick Willis Jr., RT from Bama. He excels in run blocking and has battled against numerous NFL level prospects in the SEC. I believe that we can replace Cam with him, possibly move Cam inside and ditch somebody like Norwell or Cann.
It is extremely important for Minshew’s development as a QB that we protect him.. Let’s take the extra steps to do what this team hasn’t done in over a decade - build from the trenches.
Sorry, meant to put this in the College thread.
I can't vehemently disagree with you. Minor quibbles at best.
I can make arguments for drafting other positions, but I can't say that drafting T at 9 is unjustified. Even though I would have a preference of Wirfs or Thomas (based upon demonstrated ability to play LT) over Wills, I can't completely oppose the Wills pick if only because I remain unconvinced in Jawaan Taylor (though I would hate spending a 2nd rounder and a top ten pick on RT in successive years).
Of the top tier Ts, the only one I have major misgivings over at this point is Becton. But I would at least understand why they made the pick. I would hold my nose and hope for the best...and hope like hell I was wrong in my evaluation of Becton. But I could give them credit for trying to upgrade such an important position.
(04-16-2020, 09:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think our number one offseason priority needs to be stopping the run. When we lost 5 games in a row last year, the main thing that happened was, we could not stop the run at all. If we can't stop the run, that puts enormous pressure on the offense to make up for it.
So the first question has to be, have we done enough yet to stop the run.
Five straight games allowing 200+ yards rushing.
Ugh.
I just threw up in my mouth a little just typing that.
(04-16-2020, 10:27 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Taylor our RT was awful some games, but he was a rookie a greatly improved toward the latter half of the season.
Robinson was coming off an ACL injury. Norwell wasn't nearly as bad as fans would make you think, if you just forget about Caldwell and Coughlin making him the highest paid guard in the league. Linder as usual was solid.
Cann is trash and Richardson wasn't good enough to supplant him. That RG spot needs to be addressed but in this draft it can be done in the 2nd or 3rd round, if we miss out on a top talent like Wirfs.
I'm glad you made that observation about Taylor. Based upon what I've been reading this offseason-and not just from Jaguars fans-I was beginning to question sanity-mine and theirs.
I have been less critical of Robinson than most, but at this point, prudence mandates at least a viable contingency plan for him for several reasons. His performance has been inconsistent. His health has been iffy, and his contract expires after this season.
Norwell was better last year than he was '18. But the sack/FF and TD he gave up against Carolina sticks in the craw of Jaguars fans.
One good thing about the receiver depth is that it will serve to push down players at other positions, which could make the difference between us landing a guy like Kindley or Lewis in the mid rounds and not.
(04-16-2020, 10:32 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-16-2020, 09:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think our number one offseason priority needs to be stopping the run. When we lost 5 games in a row last year, the main thing that happened was, we could not stop the run at all. If we can't stop the run, that puts enormous pressure on the offense to make up for it.
So the first question has to be, have we done enough yet to stop the run.
You can prioritize them however you like really, but CB and OT get tougher to land quality the longer you wait.
NT can often be hit on in mid rounds comparatively.
I think with THIS draft, if you want an OT you have to use a first rounder if you're looking for a starter. The depth at the position just isn't there. (Thomas, Becton, Wirfs, Wills, Jones all likely first rounders)
For CB, by our 2nd round pick have to get one for starter quality I think.
If we only need a true NT to backup and eventually replace Woods, I'm seeing what you are, probably can get one in the 3rd or 4th. But can we bank on Woods and Bryan being enough on the inside of the line, IDK.
I'll say this about the run D, it isn't fixed until it is. Meaning yeah we signed Scho and Woods, but until we see them actually perform and improve our run D, we should draft and prepare like we need more. But with those signings I think CB is probably our biggest "need" with only Herndon and some JAGS behind him on the depth chart.
(04-16-2020, 10:53 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-16-2020, 10:27 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Taylor our RT was awful some games, but he was a rookie a greatly improved toward the latter half of the season.
Robinson was coming off an ACL injury. Norwell wasn't nearly as bad as fans would make you think, if you just forget about Caldwell and Coughlin making him the highest paid guard in the league. Linder as usual was solid.
Cann is trash and Richardson wasn't good enough to supplant him. That RG spot needs to be addressed but in this draft it can be done in the 2nd or 3rd round, if we miss out on a top talent like Wirfs.
Norwell was better last year than he was '18. But the sack/FF and TD he gave up against Carolina sticks in the craw of Jaguars fans.
This has been Norwell's achilles heel if you will. Mostly does well but has one of these type of boneheaded plays just about every other game. 8 big whiffs a year negates any solid play for most fans lol
(04-16-2020, 09:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think our number one offseason priority needs to be stopping the run. When we lost 5 games in a row last year, the main thing that happened was, we could not stop the run at all. If we can't stop the run, that puts enormous pressure on the offense to make up for it.
So the first question has to be, have we done enough yet to stop the run.
I think stopping the run is the easier fix, and Caldwell is already 2/3 of the way there. Signing Joe S., a natural traffic coordinator at Mike, is 1/3 of it, allowing Jack to go back to his natural WLB play-making position -- another 1/3. Finally, adding rotational wide-body Al Woods + a run plugger somewhere in the draft is the final 1/3.
Offensive line is harder to fix because of the chemistry that must develop, but I think Gruden's emphasis on getting the ball out quicker should cut down on sacks and QB fumbles. I hope Cam gets serious competition from the draft and a future interior starter is drafted who can immediately push Norwell and/or Cann.
(04-16-2020, 09:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think our number one offseason priority needs to be stopping the run. When we lost 5 games in a row last year, the main thing that happened was, we could not stop the run at all. If we can't stop the run, that puts enormous pressure on the offense to make up for it.
So the first question has to be, have we done enough yet to stop the run.
There's a subtle but distinct difference between number one need and number one priority to me. I wouldn't debate anyone who said run defense was our number one need, but it's a skill that isn't as in demand thus you can fill it later in the draft or cheaper in FA...so I wouldn't call it priority number one.
(04-16-2020, 11:42 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (04-16-2020, 09:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think our number one offseason priority needs to be stopping the run. When we lost 5 games in a row last year, the main thing that happened was, we could not stop the run at all. If we can't stop the run, that puts enormous pressure on the offense to make up for it.
So the first question has to be, have we done enough yet to stop the run.
There's a subtle but distinct difference between number one need and number one priority to me. I wouldn't debate anyone who said run defense was our number one need, but it's a skill that isn't as in demand thus you can fill it later in the draft or cheaper in FA...so I wouldn't call it priority number one.
Good argument.
Run stuffing DTs can be found later than LTs as a general rule.
LTs are a premium position.
(04-16-2020, 11:42 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (04-16-2020, 09:50 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think our number one offseason priority needs to be stopping the run. When we lost 5 games in a row last year, the main thing that happened was, we could not stop the run at all. If we can't stop the run, that puts enormous pressure on the offense to make up for it.
So the first question has to be, have we done enough yet to stop the run.
There's a subtle but distinct difference between number one need and number one priority to me. I wouldn't debate anyone who said run defense was our number one need, but it's a skill that isn't as in demand thus you can fill it later in the draft or cheaper in FA...so I wouldn't call it priority number one.
Good point.
This is where the BAP vs NEED comes into play in the draft. Our biggest need could be run stopping, but you wouldn't reach to fill that need (NT) if CB, OL, or even perhaps WR are better players or value.
Biggest needs NT, CB, OL, TE, WR...
Bigger priorities based on players in draft, draft position, and value: probably CB, OL, WR, NT, TE.... imo.
(04-16-2020, 11:54 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (04-16-2020, 11:42 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]There's a subtle but distinct difference between number one need and number one priority to me. I wouldn't debate anyone who said run defense was our number one need, but it's a skill that isn't as in demand thus you can fill it later in the draft or cheaper in FA...so I wouldn't call it priority number one.
Good point.
This is where the BAP vs NEED comes into play in the draft. Our biggest need could be run stopping, but you wouldn't reach to fill that need (NT) if CB, OL, or even perhaps WR are better players or value.
Biggest needs NT, CB, OL, TE, WR...
Bigger priorities based on players in draft, draft position, and value: probably CB, OL, WR, NT, TE.... imo.
You and I agree generally but with minor disagreement.
I don't think Brown at 9 is necessarily a "reach." He has consistently been projected in the top ten throughout this predraft process by most.
But from a positional value standpoint, his is generally less valuable and easier to find than LT.
If you have equal needs at both NT and LT, assuming both are graded equally as players, I think positional value mandates the LT pick.
From todays McGinn's athletic draft post:
Quote:At least almost everyone is in the same pressurized boat when it comes to tackles.
“There’s no team that feels good about its two tackles,” an AFC personnel man said. “Maybe one or two teams in the league. Everyone needs to get better.
“Where are you going to get them? You’re not going to get a tackle in the third round or the fourth round. If you want a guy, you’ve got to get a guy.”
Good to know we are one of the one or two teams! /s
For real though, OT at 9 should be such a chalk pick if Okudah and Simmons are gone.
(04-17-2020, 09:11 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Harvey distills Marrone's recent comments on O-Line:
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2020/4/17/...nsive-line
So what I take away from that is the right side will improve at tackle because Taylor gained valuable experience, however, guard is still up in the air. The left side will improve at tackle because Cam will be completely healed from his ACL tear and will benefit from a full off-season practice, but Norwell is still arbitrary.
(sigh) This is not giving me a warm fuzzy. The only bright spot, I guess, is Marrone states they can add competition. Please do so, Doug. Gardner Minshew has your blessing.
(04-16-2020, 12:03 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-16-2020, 11:54 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Good point.
This is where the BAP vs NEED comes into play in the draft. Our biggest need could be run stopping, but you wouldn't reach to fill that need (NT) if CB, OL, or even perhaps WR are better players or value.
Biggest needs NT, CB, OL, TE, WR...
Bigger priorities based on players in draft, draft position, and value: probably CB, OL, WR, NT, TE.... imo.
You and I agree generally but with minor disagreement.
I don't think Brown at 9 is necessarily a "reach." He has consistently been projected in the top ten throughout this predraft process by most.
But from a positional value standpoint, his is generally less valuable and easier to find than LT.
If you have equal needs at both NT and LT, assuming both are graded equally as players, I think positional value mandates the LT pick.
I don't think Brown would be a reach at 9. I think he's the best DT in the class. I also don't think of OT as high of a need as some posters on here do. I wanna get a mauler at our RG spot if possible and let the OL ride, outside of getting some more depth.
But I've come around to the idea of perhaps going a different route than taking a DT/NT at 9, since we could in theory find one later and OL talent drops off dramatically after the first couple rounds. If the only way to get better at guard is to draft a LT and push Cam inside, I'm all for it.
If I'M the GM, the only way I'm taking OL at 9 is probably if Wirfs is available (with the idea that he plays RG but could possibly challenge Cam)
My board (starting with likely players to be available) is something like Wirfs, Okudah, Brown, Henderson, Becton, Thomas, Jeudy
(04-17-2020, 09:43 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (04-17-2020, 09:11 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Harvey distills Marrone's recent comments on O-Line:
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2020/4/17/...nsive-line
So what I take away from that is the right side will improve at tackle because Taylor gained valuable experience, however, guard is still up in the air. The left side will improve at tackle because Cam will be completely healed from his ACL tear and will benefit from a full off-season practice, but Norwell is still arbitrary.
(sigh) This is not giving me a warm fuzzy. The only bright spot, I guess, is Marrone states they can add competition. Please do so, Doug. Gardner Minshew has your blessing.
I think the best hope is that door left open for "adding competition" or even "adding a starter" as Doug said -- and hoping that means considering one of the top four Tackle prospects.
They should be able to upgrade Cann with whomever doesn't win a tackle spot or possibly a 4th round pick.
If you’re looking for a noticeable upgrade now, then the need to be looking to draft one of the “top four” at nine. And even then, they will take time to adjust.
I think they will (and should) be looking for someone who can make an impact this season with that pick.
(04-20-2020, 01:38 AM)Andy G Wrote: [ -> ]If you’re looking for a noticeable upgrade now, then the need to be looking to draft one of the “top four” at nine. And even then, they will take time to adjust.
I think they will (and should) be looking for someone who can make an impact this season with that pick.
Thomas is the most plug and play because he played LT exclusively and doesn’t need time to transition.
(04-20-2020, 01:38 AM)Andy G Wrote: [ -> ]If you’re looking for a noticeable upgrade now, then the need to be looking to draft one of the “top four” at nine. And even then, they will take time to adjust.
I think they will (and should) be looking for someone who can make an impact this season with that pick.
Thomas is the most plug and play because he played LT exclusively and doesn’t need time to transition.