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(04-20-2020, 04:02 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's unfortunately a rebuild. The best part? The guys they traded away were all apart of a team that finished 5 - 11 in 2018 and 6 - 10 in 2019. So even with their "best" players? They were below average. 2017 was a mirage. A fluke. I'll keep beating that drum for years to come.

Keeping these players for another year wouldn't have changed the identity of the team. As long as Caldwell, Marrone and Wash are involved? That's your indentity. A team that's constantly in an identity crisis now hoping Minshew can commit identity theft and save this team from it's below average decision makers.

Hopefully starting Thursday they begin fully investing and restoring the offense to set up Minshew, Gruden and McAdoo for success and Wash is able to utilize the defense a little more effectively with another key addition or two. But to Bullseye's credit. He smelled rebuild in the water miles away.

I will say this much:  a rebuild was obvious to me, but this seems like more than a rebuild, or at least a different type of rebuild.

Based upon what I've seen and heard, this seems like an offensive reconfiguration in addition to a defensive rebuild, and overall fumigation.  A rebuild far more comprehensive than I envisioned.  

Marrone and Caldwell emphasized the desire for playmakers.  They dumped Foles, and have seemingly placed their faith in Minshew (at least for now).  He seems to have shown them enough to restructure the entire offense around him.  He certainly seems to be a better passer than BortlesFoles, and has the confidence of the team.  It seems the biggest Foles advocates (DeFilippo and TC) are gone and they have brought in Jay Gruden.  They are shopping Fournette (and it looks like he may be released).  I think they are getting away from the power running attack.  We won't know for certain until Saturday, but given the depth of the receiver class and the abundance of picks, I would not be surprised to see 3 new receivers and another TE by the weekend.  Think about it.  We just cut Lee.  Conley is just a guy and has one year left on his deal.  Cole is just a guy, is being shopped, and may be cut.  Westbrook, despite the value we thought we were gitting with him when we drafted him in the 4th, is just a guy.  Just from a pure numbers standpoint, we will need some receivers.  Over the years, many posters on this board have wanted to be a passing offensive based team.  This weekend may finally give you your wish.

I really won't go too much into the defensive rebuild.  All I say was that was the rebuild I was expecting, especially considering Caldwell and Marrone were retained.  If we had a new GM/coach combo, this sort of thing was to be expected.  But I figured keeping Marrone and Caldwelll, we'd have enough pieces to fill on the defense to consider it a rebuild. 

But after learning more about the team shopping Fournette-that it wasn't just a recent reaction to Fournette advocating for Cam Newton-but a month long endeavor, I rethought it.  It wasn't a lack of talent that short circuited what should have been a longer playoff  or respectability run.  No, Bortles was not a consistent QB.  Yes, the OL has been problematic, especially in 2018.  But there is too much mounting evidence showing the Jaguars winning ways were as much the result of endemic dysfunction as it was any talent deficiencies.  You had the Ramsey GQ interview.  Not bad on its own.  But then you add Yan and Fowler's simmering feud that finally boiled over in a public and ugly training camp fight-ultimately ending in Fowler's trade to the Rams.  Add in Fournette's lack of conditioning and discipline problems in 2018.  Telvin Smith inexplicably retired.  Throw in a healthy pinch of contract squabbles from Ramsey and Yan, Ramsey's tantrum in Houston, TC iron fisted reaction which led to the Ramsey trade, Fournette persistent tardiness and inattention in meetings, and the apparent contempt many of the players showed towards Calais Campbell-a guy who should have been deemed an unquestioned leader, and you have a recipe for disaster. 

The thing is, there have been plenty of championship caliber teams that have been riddled with dysfunction.  The 1970s Yankees fought among themselves.  The Jim Kelly and Marv Levy era Bills were often known as the bickering Bills due to the squabbling and egos.  The Raiders built their legacy on getting outcasts, malcontents and troublemakers from other teams.  The 49ers had and Cowboys had the special brand of dysfunction provided by Charles Haley.  But they had strong enough leadership-from the owners to the front offices to the head coach and throughout the locker room-and apparently not enough dissenters- to tip the balance into chaos.  Obviously, the Jaguars lacked that right balance. Whatever voices of reason the team had seemingly were being drowned out.

In addition to talent and scheme fit, I'm betting the team will look harder for good team players.
(04-20-2020, 07:19 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]In addition to talent and scheme fit, I'm betting the team will look harder for good team players.

Do you remember the arguments on the last board regarding the "choir boys" that Gene Smith allegedly loved?  Does character get back in vogue, and does it happen at the expense of athleticism?  Personally, I think you can have both (thinking Calais Campbell, Larry Fitzgerald), I just don't think we have had the right mix.  The 2017 and 2018 teams had similar rosters, and we can beat to death - and have - the reasons the teams had completely different results.  I think it's obvious that losing revealed what we actually had in the locker room.

"Adversity does not build character, it exposes it." - James Lane Allen  (from that billboard I passed on I-95 a few months back).
(04-20-2020, 08:06 PM)anonymous2112 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-20-2020, 07:19 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]In addition to talent and scheme fit, I'm betting the team will look harder for good team players.

Do you remember the arguments on the last board regarding the "choir boys" that Gene Smith allegedly loved?  Does character get back in vogue, and does it happen at the expense of athleticism?  Personally, I think you can have both (thinking Calais Campbell, Larry Fitzgerald), I just don't think we have had the right mix.  The 2017 and 2018 teams had similar rosters, and we can beat to death - and have - the reasons the teams had completely different results.  I think it's obvious that losing revealed what we actually had in the locker room.

"Adversity does not build character, it exposes it." - James Lane Allen  (from that billboard I passed on I-95 a few months back).

Of course you can have both.

I know the Gibbs era Skins were largely good guys (albeit playing for a contemptible team).  I mean, Riggins and Dexter Manley were [BLEEP], but you didn't hear much about them saying all kinds of outlandish things or much locker room turmoil.  The 49ers seemed to keep locker room turmoil to a minimum.  Charles Haley was disruptive on and off the field.  Montana and Young didn't like each other.  But overall, you didn't get much controversy from that group.  I don't even recall any substance abuse suspensions from them.  Just last year, although Tyreek Hill had the horrific off field allegations against him, I never heard any peep about them and internal strife. 

You are right.  That 2018 and 2019 team did NOT have the right mix.
Guys were tougher in those eras. They were all [BLEEP] holes but mostly put the team first. Money seldom came up. You can win a number of ways culture wise in most sports.

I think the key in this sport is just the QB position. Find you a guy that finds a way to win consistently regardless of who you put around him and the rest of the locker room normally follows suit.

Minshew either becomes that guy or he doesn't. We'll see. If he does? Ramsey and Ngakoue will continue to look like the selfish [BLEEP] holes that they've become and probably play on equal quality ot subpar teams.

Or, he slips and we get Lawrence in 2021.
(04-21-2020, 02:12 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Guys were tougher in those eras. They were all [BLEEP] holes but mostly put the team first. Money seldom came up. You can win a number of ways culture wise in most sports.

I think the key in this sport is just the QB position. Find you a guy that finds a way to win consistently regardless of who you put around him and the rest of the locker room normally follows suit.

Minshew either becomes that guy or he doesn't. We'll see. If he does? Ramsey and Ngakoue will continue to look like the selfish [BLEEP] holes that they've become and probably play on equal quality ot subpar teams.

Or, he slips and we get Lawrence in 2021.

Yep.  A good QB has a lot of power in the locker room because he is so valuable and everyone else knows, if push comes to shove, the management will keep the QB and jettison the troublemaker.  So everyone avoids a conflict with the star QB.  And that pulls the team together.
I don't know about a rebuild but I'm in full apathy mode. And it is compounded by the lockdown. Was glad to see the beaches are "open" back home. We are ruled by a Dallas County Judge Tyrant here imposing misery day to day. I'm waiting for Jerry Jones to put him in his place.

Hope today finds everyone else well.
It’s built, it’s been all down hill since that statement
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