(04-26-2020, 12:57 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2020, 10:19 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Yan, though he hasn't acted like it, is a professional when it comes to game day. He will sign his tender and then play his [BLEEP] off for his last year here. I am not worried at all about Fournette. He is essentially in his contract year, so he is going to play his [BLEEP] off.
That is being overly optimistic. I don't see this happening at all.
How? Both will have tons to play for.
I doubt Fournette gets cut. Personally I'd love it because it would get us closer to Trevor Lawrence, but I still have some hopes they ship him when the year starts, Ngakoue too. If I were a betting man though...Fournette plays the whole year then becomes a free agent and signs elsewhere. Yannick gets traded for a second and maybe some day 3 pick before the season starts. If we don't have a season Fournette walks in free agency and we tag Yannick again and trade for a day two pick.
(04-25-2020, 10:00 PM)JNev Wrote: [ -> ]Can we all agree the ideal realistic scenario is Yann holds out of Training Camp, reports for the season and plays well enough before the trade deadline to get us something of value (something he wants and we want) with Leo playing great and when we let him walk we get a 3rd or 4th rd comp pick (assuming no one wants to trade a 4th or better for him in-season)?
I think the ideal realistic scenario is for someone like Caldwell or Tony Khan to sit down with Ngakoue and ask him, if it's not about money, what is it? Ngakoue has claimed it was never about the money. So what is it? What did we do that caused this rift? How can we apologize? How can we do better in the future? It's apparent that your salary demands are keeping you from being traded, so is there a face-saving compromise that we can adopt that will allow us to go forward happily on the same team?
If it's not about money, then there has to be something we can do to make him feel better about things.
If it is about money, then the last couple of months should persuade him that his salary demands are too high for the market.
The current path they are on is surely going to be painful for both sides. Both sides have to see this.
They have to sit down and talk. There's still a chance they can work things out.
(04-26-2020, 05:32 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think the ideal realistic scenario is for someone like Caldwell or Tony Khan to sit down with Ngakoue and ask him, if it's not about money, what is it? Ngakoue has claimed it was never about the money. So what is it? What did we do that caused this rift? How can we apologize? How can we do better in the future? It's apparent that your salary demands are keeping you from being traded, so is there a face-saving compromise that we can adopt that will allow us to go forward happily on the same team?
If it's not about money, then there has to be something we can do to make him feel better about things.
If it is about money, then the last couple of months should persuade him that his salary demands are too high for the market.
The current path they are on is surely going to be painful for both sides. Both sides have to see this.
They have to sit down and talk. There's still a chance they can work things out.
I'd venture to say that the main hindrance now is whether or not Yannick can get over his fractured emotions. It was clear that he felt disrespected in the prior offseason with the contract/Coughlin mishap - and I think some of that ire was pointed towards the rest of our FO because at that time they sided with Coughlin.
And with that, he decided to bet on himself this past year to prove his perceived worth - and based off the quiet void of this offseason for his trade talks, he missed his mark. He definitely hurt his own stock with the nonsensical crap this offseason but I can tell you that he will not get offered a contract more than what we offered him previously.
Again, the only way I see things getting worked out is if he can set aside his bruised ego and resume negotiations - but I just do not see this happening here. He's checked out of Jacksonville and yet he's not coming from a position of power.
Mehh, hopefully Yann and his camp will come back to reality and find a deal with another team and in return the Jags get proper compensation. If not, I'd still play Chaisson. Yann rides the pine. Hell I'd give Chaisson 91 if he wanted it, just to say, we've moved on guy.
(04-26-2020, 05:32 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2020, 10:00 PM)JNev Wrote: [ -> ]Can we all agree the ideal realistic scenario is Yann holds out of Training Camp, reports for the season and plays well enough before the trade deadline to get us something of value (something he wants and we want) with Leo playing great and when we let him walk we get a 3rd or 4th rd comp pick (assuming no one wants to trade a 4th or better for him in-season)?
I think the ideal realistic scenario is for someone like Caldwell or Tony Khan to sit down with Ngakoue and ask him, if it's not about money, what is it? Ngakoue has claimed it was never about the money. So what is it? What did we do that caused this rift? How can we apologize? How can we do better in the future? It's apparent that your salary demands are keeping you from being traded, so is there a face-saving compromise that we can adopt that will allow us to go forward happily on the same team?
If it's not about money, then there has to be something we can do to make him feel better about things.
If it is about money, then the last couple of months should persuade him that his salary demands are too high for the market.
The current path they are on is surely going to be painful for both sides. Both sides have to see this.
They have to sit down and talk. There's still a chance they can work things out.
To me it's too late. The Chaisson pick is the replacement. Everything should be invested into getting him on the field. To me Dave and Doug said we've moved on even though we have this issue hanging around. So eventually Yann and his camp are going to have to lower their price IF he wants to find another team. Nobody is going to pay what they are asking, otherwise, he'd be gone already.
Yan is one if the worst negotiators I have ever seen
(04-26-2020, 05:32 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]I think the ideal realistic scenario is for someone like Caldwell or Tony Khan to sit down with Ngakoue and ask him, if it's not about money, what is it? Ngakoue has claimed it was never about the money. So what is it? What did we do that caused this rift? How can we apologize? How can we do better in the future? It's apparent that your salary demands are keeping you from being traded, so is there a face-saving compromise that we can adopt that will allow us to go forward happily on the same team?
If it's not about money, then there has to be something we can do to make him feel better about things.
If it is about money, then the last couple of months should persuade him that his salary demands are too high for the market.
The current path they are on is surely going to be painful for both sides. Both sides have to see this.
They have to sit down and talk. There's still a chance they can work things out.
I can't imagine this hasn't happened already, if not face to face, then a video call. If they were negotiating, I expect both sides are now re-evaluating their post-draft positions. That being the case, I expect an outcome soon, either way.
If they're just too far apart on the money, or Ngakoue simply wants out, for whatever reason, I still expect him to report to camp and play like the professional he is. I think he's smart enough to realize it only helps his trade value.
If we put together a winning season, he may rethink his position. If we struggle, then I expect a trade. Hopefully Dave can make another Ramsey-type deal to a team that sees itself as a player away from the Superbowl and will sacrifice the future for the present.
(04-25-2020, 09:42 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly this season is setting up to be the season of stuck in neutral. We are back to year 1 David Caldwell with the few talented players on other teams. They are trying once again to put together a defense. The coaching is suspect and the front office is suspect. Everyone has a built in excuse to milk the COVID restrictions for a do over. I don't want them in the locker room because it will accelerate the obvious that this coaching staff is headed by a bad Head Coach and Defensive Coordinator. They are playing Disgruntled Player whack a mole. TC was a pain in the locker room's rear end but ousting him has had zero overall impact.
If we could see some progress on offense, I would at least feel like Gruden was a nice pick up and Minshew was developing.
"They are playing Disgruntled Player whack a mole." - best line in the whole thread. I keep picturing Tom Coughlin popping up on the board, too.
Bamboozle did a nice job on the new CBA provisions but when does that go into effect? Aren't we still on the old CBA through this league year, i.e. through early March 2021?
#27: he'll likely slink back into town and play out his last year. He's not getting the 5th year option and certainly sealed his fate on that front.
#91: teams are assessing their post-draft positions now and may look a little differently at acquiring him. If he's still here come camp time and even the beginning of the season, a key injury elsewhere will also ramp up his value. I don't see him playing another game here.
I want to see a player for player trade. Especially for an OL. There HAS to be upgrades at LT and RG.
Ive been hopeful that we could find an agreement with Yan at some point. I was hopeful Coughlin going would be enough. I dont see a good ending here. Both are important players for us so we want a high price but i dont see other teams valuing them that high. Seeing Trent Williams go for a 5th and 3rd should be the warning sign.
Im just pissed that players can be so destructive and i know its a business, teams cut players and players leave teams, but to see 2 such critical players go to such lengths to leave is so frustrating.
But then, just try looking at it from Yan's perspective, he wants out, hes said he wants out, he wont sign a new contract, we tag him against his request. He clearly wants out. What options does he have? Im not justifying his actions but if you wanted out from somewhere and they just wouldn't let you, your going to be a pain. Now weve got to twitter spats that only make him look a potential problem and lower his value.
These guys are gonna play. Fournette needs to for sure. If he sits he may not have a job at all next season. I mean, we couldn't even trade him for a late round pick. Fournette will play, and next year he'll be a rotational guy/back up somewhere else.
Yan however.... well... he plays on the tag or he sits. Who knows? If he sits... he sits... nothing we can do about it. If he shows up and plays, great, we got a great pass rusher for another year so Chaisson doesn't have to forced into the lineup as much and as early.
(04-25-2020, 08:25 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2020, 07:49 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]We tried trading malcontent DE Yannick Ngakoue with no takers. He is adamant that he wants out, but we weren't gonna trade him without the right compensation. One of two things are gonna happen. He's either gonna sit out as long as he can and come back, faking an injury or he's gonna come back and be a locker room cancer. Neither are ideal situations for a team needing to move on from the situation. Anyone who thinks he's gonna come back with his tail between his legs and the locker room will be all harmonious, is out of their minds. The same can be said of Leonard Fournette. He's basically been dissing our QB and taking shots here and there. We tried to trade him with no takers either. He knows we're not picking up his option and that we couldn't trade him. He's probably not gonna be too happy either and I can't see him "letting it go." We didn't draft his replacement, so I don't think we're gonna cut him either. How is this gonna work, having these two "whiners" back in the locker room? Is anyone else a little concerned that we may be headed for yet another Jalen Ramsey situation, only this time we're not gonna come out with any compensation?
I was hoping it would be over after this weekend, but it looks like it just may be the beginning. This could be a very long season. I'm still holding out hope that we can trade Ngakoue for a 2021 pick, but that looks bleak. As for Fournette, with no real replacement, we have no choice, but to roll with him in 2020.
I think they'll cut Fournette before they let him back in the locker room. I don't know about Ngouke. At this point, I'd trade Ngouke for a ham sandwich.
Ngouke will play this year if we don't trade him. AT this point he must play to restore his position with other teams by having a stellar year and being a good player in the locker room. If he holds out or does not play that will destroy any chance of a team wanting to trade for him. If his agent is worth his salt he will instruct Yan to play hard and stay out of trouble in the locker room. As far as fournette that may be a different story and I hope we can trade him before the season starts. His stats are deceptive and he is at best an average back.
I think Fournette sticks around, he didn't go nuclear like Yan did going after the owner. Yan's probably dealt in the pre-season when a team has injuries or realizes their pass-rush isn't going to be good enough.
(04-28-2020, 08:17 PM)AlphaJag Wrote: [ -> ]I think Fournette sticks around, he didn't go nuclear like Yan did going after the owner. Yan's probably dealt in the pre-season when a team has injuries or realizes their pass-rush isn't going to be good enough.
At least Fournettes' agent gave him sound advice