Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(04-26-2020, 04:23 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Thomas is a box only guy to me

Yeah, I think he backs up Harrison

According to the analytics CB is the most important position on Defense. So it makes sense why Caldwell and Tony went for them.

I don't think the deep safety of the future is on our roster right now.

(04-26-2020, 04:40 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think the deep safety of the future is on our roster right now.

Yeah, this is (part of) what I'm getting at.

I find it odd that with of all the dice being rolled on DBs in late rounds/UDFA  -- none of them seem to project to FS except Reed. 

I guess they like Wilson more than we do.

IIRC the jags view the two safety spots as more interchangeable. There are very few true centerfielder FS anymore. Players with that kind of size nd athleticism get pushed to corner in the college system to matchup with the bigger receivers. If the were a prospect that ticked all of the ED Reed boxes they would have drafted him. But I haven't seen that player in a long time.

(04-26-2020, 04:40 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think the deep safety of the future is on our roster right now.

As long as Reed stay healthy, I think he's our futue

(04-26-2020, 04:47 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]IIRC the jags view the two safety spots as more interchangeable.  There are very few true centerfielder FS anymore.  Players with that kind of size nd athleticism get pushed to corner in the college system to matchup with the bigger receivers.   If the were a prospect that ticked all of the ED Reed boxes they would have drafted him. But I haven't seen that player in a long time.

They keep saying they'll play them more interchangeably the past two or three offseasons -- but they still call an awful lot of coverages with a single high safety and Wilson showed some pretty ugly angles to the ball from those coverages last year. That's why I'm being a bit harp-ish on the topic. 

I agree with your assertions about the position and the college athletes often being coached at CB rather than true FS. I just think it's still a significant part of the Jags D and I'm trying to discover if I'm missing some strategy beyond Wilson fending off an undrafted rookie (even if the rookie appears promising).

Guess we'll find out in July if camp stays on schedule.

(04-26-2020, 12:15 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Do people really think Thomas is a free safety candidate?

Dave even said this was the case. You might not want to believe it, but he said it.

(04-26-2020, 04:23 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Thomas is a box only guy to me

He going to get a shot a FS according to Dave.

If you look historically at our 53 man roster to start the season, typically we keep 5 CBs and 4 safeties (although occasionally 5). With the increase in roster to 55 not sure where we will keep those 2 extra.

Henderson is a lock to start at one spot. I'd be surprised if Herndon isnt starting the other side. I thought he played better than this board gave him credit for and it does appear the team likes him. Barring something unknown have to think Hayden is a lock at nickel. My guess is Josiah Scott will be given every opportunity to win a spot as a second slot coverage guy and ultimate Hayden replacement. Keep hearing good things about him(fast and quick, tough, harder worker, etc...) although his lack of height will be an issue if opponents can scheme good matchups. Heard differing reports on his tackling ability. Probably his lack of size and, assuming, playing strength might give him trouble in that department at times. Anyways that leaves one spot. Melvin is the obvious choice since we just signed him to a deal with $625k guaranteed before the season even starts. In theory you could cut him from the 55 man roster but one of the young guys would have to clearly outplay him. We have that 7th rounder at CB and I know folks are excited about the UDFA guy Barcoo.

Safety is more open in my mind. Assuming Harrison and Wilson are the starters but I dont think that is going to be a lock. Similar to Herndon, think Winguard gets dogged more than deserved around here. Good special teamer (think he might have led the team in special teams tackles last year) and was called into start last year when Harrison went down. But doesnt mean he couldnt be beat out. Daniel Thomas wasn't getting much love on the draft thread which I understand. Most of the scouting reports say he is an in the box safety which feels like a somewhat antiquated position in today's pass happy league. Thought I heard Dave say he will compete for free safety though. Not sure if true but seems odd based on the scouting reports although sounds like he does have speed. Also saw we signed the kid from Georgia as UDFA. Lots of people excited about him. Scouting reports seem hit or miss though. Have a hard time believing he didnt get drafted due to a high school knee injury unless it has caused issues since then. Get the impression he dropped because physically he doesnt have any great skillsets. Not big or fast or really elite in any area. But a 3 year starter and team captain so has some positives. I'd be surprised if Harrison and Wilson arent on the team and while not sure being starters is a total lock, would be surprised if they aren't. Unless Winguard's special teams skills becomes expendable (as someone else on the roster can match his ability), I have to think that will give him an edge but by no means a lock. Expanding the roster to 55 may give him some extra cushion. Thomas and Reed probably need to fight as if there is only one spot open. Looking at the current roster, my guess is one of them will make it but wouldnt be shocked if both do.

(04-26-2020, 04:57 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-26-2020, 12:15 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Do people really think Thomas is a free safety candidate?

Dave even said this was the case. You might not want to believe it, but he said it.

Thanks, I missed that. 

(04-26-2020, 05:41 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-26-2020, 04:23 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Thomas is a box only guy to me

He going to get a shot a FS according to Dave.

And thank you as well. 

I'm beginning to wonder if this team's F.O. strategy at the safety position jives with Wash's scheme like it should  - since this has seemingly been a "square peg/round hole" situation in a number of offseason's over the past several years.

Is re-opening a discussion with Dennard a non-starter? I think it was just a contract impasse, not an injury issue, and he is still a free agent. Maybe it's just time to move on.

I think our DB's shake out as follows:

CB: CJ Henderson, Rashaad Melvin, Tre Herndon, Chris Claybrooks
Nickel: DJ Hayden, Josiah Scott
FS: Jarrod Wilson, Daniel Thomas
SS: Ronnie Harrison, JR Reed

Not sure if we keep 6 corners (although Claybrooks seems like he's going to be just pure speed for ST's both on kick returns and covering kicks) I could see Melvin, Herndon or Claybrooks not making the 53 with Claybrooks being a priority add to the PS if he can't be a weapon as a returner right away.

It's very clear that adding speed to the Secondary was the priority this draft.

(04-26-2020, 07:37 PM)Firesky Wrote: [ -> ]I think our DB's shake out as follows:

CB: CJ Henderson, Rashaad Melvin, Tre Herndon, Chris Claybrooks
Nickel: DJ Hayden, Josiah Scott
FS: Jarrod Wilson, Daniel Thomas
SS: Ronnie Harrison, JR Reed

Not sure if we keep 6 corners (although Claybrooks seems like he's going to be just pure speed for ST's both on kick returns and covering kicks) I could see Melvin, Herndon or Claybrooks not making the 53 with Claybrooks being a priority add to the PS if he can't be a weapon as a returner right away.

It's very clear that adding speed to the Secondary was the priority this draft.

Melvin aint gonna play over Herndon

Safety is often a position where you can find vets that get released later in the off-season too. Wouldn't surprise me if they brought in an experienced guy to compete there.

(04-26-2020, 08:03 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]Safety is often a position where you can find vets that get released later in the off-season too. Wouldn't surprise me if they brought in an experienced guy to compete there.

I was going to say this.

Also, this draft didn't have many free safeties worth drafting, and they went pretty fast. Caldwell just didn't have a fit there during the draft.

Eli Apple or Dennard at CB 1 year prove it deal
Eric Reid at Safety for Defensive leadership 2 to 3 year deal
Snacks Harrison comp dline 1 year deal
If we do all of the above, our defense will be back and we may be able to compete. None of these guys would command alot of money. Not sure why we wouldn't

(04-27-2020, 08:41 AM)D-Money Wrote: [ -> ]Eli Apple or Dennard at CB 1 year prove it deal
Eric Reid at  Safety for Defensive leadership 2 to 3 year deal
Snacks Harrison comp dline 1 year deal
If we do all of the above, our defense will be back and we may be able to compete. None of these guys would command alot of money. Not sure why we wouldn't

I always laugh when I see people type "1 year prove it deal."  What do you suppose happens if he "proves it?"   There's no advantage to us.  All we've done is help him sign with another team.  A "1 year prove it deal" is just a 1 year deal.

(04-26-2020, 11:23 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Just beginning to get my head around these acquisitions.

One poster astutely noted that it seems Caldwell is going after the DB position with a shotgun and that certainly seems fair. 
With the exception of Henderson - it seems like he's collected some interesting rolls of the dice value-wise and will attempt to (hopefully) allow some hidden-gem talent to rise to the top.

One interesting note however, there does seem to be an emphasis on finding a cheap heir apparent at nickel and also a bit of a hunt for a poor man's Tyrann Mathieu type.  Lots of guys with "big nickel" traits and a few undersized guys with speed and ball-hawking traits. 

(Personally I thought the idea would be to find a clear cut rangey free safety, allow Herndon to be the heir apparent at nickel and seek to find him competition/ eventual replacement at #2 CB -  not how it went down)

This makes me wonder what long-term strategy they have as far as tweaking the back seven of this defense, if any.  
Are we going to see less single high safety?  
Will there be greater variation in the nickel and dime packages? 
Will we see some of these CB prospects get looks at FS? 
What are you guys anticipating?

Are we going to see less single high safety? I think that's the case. They were abused in the ground game and they might want to start playing more and more frequently towards the box and start pressuring from different looks. 

Will there be greater variation in nickle and dime packages? I think they'll have to get creative this year with Ramsey and Bouye gone. They added a few undersized guys with speed. IMHO, this is to more than likely go more man-to-man with the expectation that the front seven BETTER be getting after the QB's [BLEEP] in obvious passing situations this year. 

Will we see some of these prospects get looks at FS? That's an interesting question. Based on some of their sizes I would say probably not right now. BUT. . . I do like the J.R Reed signing. And I think he's not really built to play single high safety at all. He's more of a shallow's guy that will thump you and use technique to tackle. Smart guy. But he did get beat deep at Georgia a few times. I think this is an intriguing prospect though and one to keep an eye on this summer. 

I pretty much anticipate more front seven blitzes with Chaisson, Jack and Allen lined up at the line and while standing up. And I expect more man-to-man and 3 - 4 looks with some Zone coverage sprinkled in from time to time. But just based on the guys they've drafted? It seems like it'll be more man-to-man right now. Smaller, faster guys don't tend to make for good Zone coverage players as it gives QB's more time in the pocket to high point the ball placement out of their reach. 

More man coverage and more front seven blitz packages is FINE BY ME. Was getting tired of the zone [BLEEP]. Especially on 3rd and 3 with CB's playing 5 yards off the LOS.

(04-26-2020, 04:37 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]According to the analytics CB is the most important position on Defense. So it makes sense why Caldwell and Tony went for them.

Explain this analytics. Why is CB more important than Edge rusher?