(04-27-2020, 08:53 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2020, 08:41 AM)D-Money Wrote: [ -> ]Eli Apple or Dennard at CB 1 year prove it deal
Eric Reid at Safety for Defensive leadership 2 to 3 year deal
Snacks Harrison comp dline 1 year deal
If we do all of the above, our defense will be back and we may be able to compete. None of these guys would command alot of money. Not sure why we wouldn't
I always laugh when I see people type "1 year prove it deal." What do you suppose happens if he "proves it?" There's no advantage to us. All we've done is help him sign with another team. A "1 year prove it deal" is just a 1 year deal.
Prove that he will can contribute to the team in a positive way, if he can you renegotiate with him before the season and lock them up for a longer term. I say that because they no one has tried to sign them so they would probably take the 1st offer that makes sense.
(04-27-2020, 09:08 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 04:37 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]According to the analytics CB is the most important position on Defense. So it makes sense why Caldwell and Tony went for them.
Explain this analytics. Why is CB more important than Edge rusher?
It's a lot harder to find a shut down corner in a pass happy era of football. Since CB and WR are pretty much mono e mono it's just as important to have a guy that can shut down one side of the football field. The term "coverage sack" was coined for a reason.
It can't be a coincidence that Ngakoue's and Campbell's sacks went down when Ramsey was no longer apart of the line up and picture. The positions all correlate of course. But it was pretty clear three years ago that our secondary play was absolutely allowing a ton of coverage sacks.
For an edge rusher you have to consider that there's more opportunities to scheme against them as well. Chip blocks, solid LT or RT play, G's that can get around the edge and pop them, a FB or RB that can pass block and stone wall a defender.
The only way you can really get after a stout CB is by running pick plays and you can only run so many of those before the stripes start calling pass interference. Even the top offenses like New England and Kansas City that made the pick play popular over the past few years (Can throw Manning into that mix between his time with the clots and Broncos) they eventually get called out for it.
(04-27-2020, 08:41 AM)D-Money Wrote: [ -> ]Eli Apple or Dennard at CB 1 year prove it deal
Eric Reid at Safety for Defensive leadership 2 to 3 year deal
Snacks Harrison comp dline 1 year deal
If we do all of the above, our defense will be back and we may be able to compete. None of these guys would command alot of money. Not sure why we wouldn't
that pesky Cap thing will get in the way. Build the foundation and talent floor/depth with youth and use 2021 and 2022 free agency to fill holes.
From a cap perspective, they are in position to use Free Agency to attack holes in 2021 and 2022 with high level players. Similar to 2016 and 2017: Gipson, Malik, Calais, Church, Bouye.
(04-27-2020, 10:51 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2020, 09:08 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]Explain this analytics. Why is CB more important than Edge rusher?
It's a lot harder to find a shut down corner in a pass happy era of football. Since CB and WR are pretty much mono e mono it's just as important to have a guy that can shut down one side of the football field. The term "coverage sack" was coined for a reason.
It can't be a coincidence that Ngakoue's and Campbell's sacks went down when Ramsey was no longer apart of the line up and picture. The positions all correlate of course. But it was pretty clear three years ago that our secondary play was absolutely allowing a ton of coverage sacks.
For an edge rusher you have to consider that there's more opportunities to scheme against them as well. Chip blocks, solid LT or RT play, G's that can get around the edge and pop them, a FB or RB that can pass block and stone wall a defender.
The only way you can really get after a stout CB is by running pick plays and you can only run so many of those before the stripes start calling pass interference. Even the top offenses like New England and Kansas City that made the pick play popular over the past few years (Can throw Manning into that mix between his time with the clots and Broncos) they eventually get called out for it.
Good analysis. Yes, it was awesome to have Ramsey around to neutralize Hopkins and AJ Green. That really put a damper on game plans. You're right that the two positions correlate. If we don't have an Allen, a Yan, etc. that the offense has to devote extra personnel to block (freeing up other rushers), then the benefit of good CBs is diminished.
(04-27-2020, 10:51 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2020, 09:08 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]Explain this analytics. Why is CB more important than Edge rusher?
It's a lot harder to find a shut down corner in a pass happy era of football. Since CB and WR are pretty much mono e mono it's just as important to have a guy that can shut down one side of the football field. The term "coverage sack" was coined for a reason.
It can't be a coincidence that Ngakoue's and Campbell's sacks went down when Ramsey was no longer apart of the line up and picture. The positions all correlate of course. But it was pretty clear three years ago that our secondary play was absolutely allowing a ton of coverage sacks.
For an edge rusher you have to consider that there's more opportunities to scheme against them as well. Chip blocks, solid LT or RT play, G's that can get around the edge and pop them, a FB or RB that can pass block and stone wall a defender.
The only way you can really get after a stout CB is by running pick plays and you can only run so many of those before the stripes start calling pass interference. Even the top offenses like New England and Kansas City that made the pick play popular over the past few years (Can throw Manning into that mix between his time with the clots and Broncos) they eventually get called out for it.
Another big reason their sacks went down was because the Jags were terrible against the run and were playing from behind just about every game.
(04-27-2020, 12:24 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2020, 10:51 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's a lot harder to find a shut down corner in a pass happy era of football. Since CB and WR are pretty much mono e mono it's just as important to have a guy that can shut down one side of the football field. The term "coverage sack" was coined for a reason.
It can't be a coincidence that Ngakoue's and Campbell's sacks went down when Ramsey was no longer apart of the line up and picture. The positions all correlate of course. But it was pretty clear three years ago that our secondary play was absolutely allowing a ton of coverage sacks.
For an edge rusher you have to consider that there's more opportunities to scheme against them as well. Chip blocks, solid LT or RT play, G's that can get around the edge and pop them, a FB or RB that can pass block and stone wall a defender.
The only way you can really get after a stout CB is by running pick plays and you can only run so many of those before the stripes start calling pass interference. Even the top offenses like New England and Kansas City that made the pick play popular over the past few years (Can throw Manning into that mix between his time with the clots and Broncos) they eventually get called out for it.
Another big reason their sacks went down was because the Jags were terrible against the run and were playing from behind just about every game.
That's a big factor as well and fair point. Hopefully they did enough between adding Schobert and moving Jack outside. Williams should hopefully be up to speed and healthy in year two. Hamilton should be good inside as a space eater. Chaisson should be good against the run. Hopefully more 3 - 4 looks this year with man-to-man outside. Need more gap control, discipline and penetration this year for sure.
Most of the [BLEEP] we saw with the run defense looked about 60% mental error and 40% piss poor tackling. The mental errors are what to led to those explosive runs more than anything.
(04-26-2020, 12:38 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 12:37 PM)fredalwaysajag Wrote: [ -> ]So Reed is def a FS? I gotta go watch some highlights of him. I wonder if Reed is related to Ed Reed.
His dad is Jake Reed.
I just found out that Dale Carter is the kids uncle. He has some pretty good DB blood after all- Here is a snippet from a John Clayton article back in '01...
The Vikings are expected to finalize a deal Thursday that will unite wide receiver Jake Reed with his brother, Dale Carter.
Carter cleared waivers Wednesday after being released by the Broncos.
Because he has been staying with his brother in Minneapolis, Carter popped over to the Vikings facility for an informal visit. Negotiations then began, and although the one-year contract wasn’t done before the end of the evening Wednesday, it should be concluded Thursday.
Carter would help the Vikings problems at cornerback.
Reed's a solid football player. He's smart between the ears and that shows at times. I liked him at Georgia. I am a Bulldogs fan. Was surprised he didn't get drafted. I know he's not the most remarkable athlete combine wise but it's not like he tested THAT poorly for this position.
He'll be a pleasant surprise this summer for a lot of folks. Especially against the run. Again, my only concern is his lack of recovery speed. He's not a guy that you want to see back there in a single safety formation but he's a guy that you want to see within the box area and within that 10 - 15 yard range.
This kill will pop you if the opening is there and he'll wrap up when he needs to wrap up. It'll be rare you'll see this kid playing patty cake out there. But I like the direction Caldwell went with in this draft, at least for now. Especially with David Johnson and Johnathan Taylor now in the division to tag along with Derrick Henry. Those are six games with six potential heavy doses of ground and pound. We're going to be thankful for guys like Reed, Schobert, Hamilton and Jack being back outside this year.
Remember back when Sammy Knight signed in mid-August and started the whole season?
(04-28-2020, 12:22 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Reed's a solid football player. He's smart between the ears and that shows at times. I liked him at Georgia. I am a Bulldogs fan. Was surprised he didn't get drafted. I know he's not the most remarkable athlete combine wise but it's not like he tested THAT poorly for this position.
He'll be a pleasant surprise this summer for a lot of folks. Especially against the run. Again, my only concern is his lack of recovery speed. He's not a guy that you want to see back there in a single safety formation but he's a guy that you want to see within the box area and within that 10 - 15 yard range.
This kill will pop you if the opening is there and he'll wrap up when he needs to wrap up. It'll be rare you'll see this kid playing patty cake out there. But I like the direction Caldwell went with in this draft, at least for now. Especially with David Johnson and Johnathan Taylor now in the division to tag along with Derrick Henry. Those are six games with six potential heavy doses of ground and pound. We're going to be thankful for guys like Reed, Schobert, Hamilton and Jack being back outside this year.
Alot of these UDFA's are intriguing. The guard outta mizzou. Barcoo. Marvelle Ross. Feaster. James. The Big Norwegian
(04-26-2020, 04:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 04:47 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]IIRC the jags view the two safety spots as more interchangeable. There are very few true centerfielder FS anymore. Players with that kind of size nd athleticism get pushed to corner in the college system to matchup with the bigger receivers. If the were a prospect that ticked all of the ED Reed boxes they would have drafted him. But I haven't seen that player in a long time.
They keep saying they'll play them more interchangeably the past two or three offseasons -- but they still call an awful lot of coverages with a single high safety and Wilson showed some pretty ugly angles to the ball from those coverages last year. That's why I'm being a bit harp-ish on the topic.
I wonder if that's more of an indictment on the team's dissatisfaction, or lack of excitement, towards Wilson's skill-level than anything else. Wasn't the talk most last off-season about Harrison being the FS and Wilson being the SS, even though most pegged Harrison as a more-traditional SS? I know Harrison showed some ballhawk skills, but I seem to remember most of this board, at least, thinking Wash was using Harrison and Wilson in reverse. I wonder if they "stopped" that "experiment" not because Wilson was better as the FS, or as a single-high safety than Harrison, but because Wilson didn't hold up in-the-box or against the run as well as Harrison manned the single-high spot (in other words: the dropoff from Harrison to Wilson at SS was significantly more drastic than the dropoff from Wilson to Harrison at FS).
Perhaps we see the team try to move Harrison back over to FS, where they seemed to like him, and one of the newcomers take Harrison's spot as the more-traditional SS?
(Note: I used "SS" and "FS" for convenience purposes. I realize that the team, at least, tries to use the two roles more interchangeably than say in the days of Darius and Grant. But for purposes of this post, it seemed easier to distinguish by just using the two commonly accepted names for their roles.)
(Unrelated, but necessary aside: your new signature is filthy NYC. I can't tell you how many times I've planned to respond to a post in a thread, saw your sig, watched it about 10 times, and just felt too giddy to bother putting any thought into a response after.)
Someone to watch already on the roster...
The Jags picked up Josh Jones off the waiver wire at the end of December last year. He was a 2nd round draft pick for the Packers in 2017, and had 12 starts at SS in 29 games his first two seasons. He was released by Green Bay for a non-football injury and signed by Dallas to the practice squad last year, and was called up onto the active roster for about 30 days. He's 6'2" 220 with good 4.41 speed. Not sure what has been his issue, but am curious to see him play and likely complete for a backup safety spot.
(04-27-2020, 10:51 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2020, 09:08 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]Explain this analytics. Why is CB more important than Edge rusher?
It's a lot harder to find a shut down corner in a pass happy era of football. Since CB and WR are pretty much mono e mono it's just as important to have a guy that can shut down one side of the football field. The term "coverage sack" was coined for a reason.
It can't be a coincidence that Ngakoue's and Campbell's sacks went down when Ramsey was no longer apart of the line up and picture. The positions all correlate of course. But it was pretty clear three years ago that our secondary play was absolutely allowing a ton of coverage sacks.
For an edge rusher you have to consider that there's more opportunities to scheme against them as well. Chip blocks, solid LT or RT play, G's that can get around the edge and pop them, a FB or RB that can pass block and stone wall a defender.
The only way you can really get after a stout CB is by running pick plays and you can only run so many of those before the stripes start calling pass interference. Even the top offenses like New England and Kansas City that made the pick play popular over the past few years (Can throw Manning into that mix between his time with the clots and Broncos) they eventually get called out for it.
I agree that the loss of Ramsey definitely impacted our Dline. But I think the Pectoral injury to Dareus had way more of an impact than people realize. Not just from pushing the pocket, & eating up blockers in the middle to free up Yan, Josh Allen & Calais on the edges. But because without him our run defense went back to 2017 pre-Dareus trade levels. The book was out on us (especially after the Panthers game) that we couldn't stop the run in the A & B gaps. Getting road graded by an Offensive line wears you down as a Dlinemen and you have less energy on 3rd downs to get after the QB. Also when you play from behind on the scoreboard, the other team will run more and you get less opportunities to pass rush and rack up sacks. 3rd & 1 vs. 3rd & 10 & even 3rd & 5 to an extent is a HUGE difference in terms of the tendency to call pass plays. I'm glad we signed Woods & drafted Hamilton to try and address NT which has been a HUGE need for us since Knighton left (Dareus trade not-withstanding of course)
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