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The nicest way to put it is that Michael Flynn is a complex character.
The truth is that he is a chameleon always looking for his next mark.
We can't be sure exactly why Obama fired him, but it does not seem to have been over a sincere difference of opinion regarding America's national interest.
A lot of people disagreed with Obama about America's national interest. Some of them thought we should get closer to Turkey, perhaps. Some of them thought we should get closer to Russia, even though Russia was invading Crimea. Yet no sincere person believed all three things. If you pick a fight to get Obama to fire you, then write a book about how out of touch Obama is, but then take money from both Russia and from Turkey, you're not a sincere American patriot, with a difference of opinion, no, you're just after fame and money. Everyone in the Obama administration who dealt with Flynn knew this. Pence knew this. The lie that Flynn told Pence probably concerned one of these things. Trump knew this also at one time. He is just conveniently forgetting, to get an anti-Biden story into the news cycle.

So what happened to "by the book'? They threw that concept out the window within days as Comey giggled about how stupid the Trump Admin was for trusting the FBI.

(05-19-2020, 09:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The nicest way to put it is that Michael Flynn is a complex character.
The truth is that he is a chameleon always looking for his next mark.
We can't be sure exactly why Obama fired him, but it does not seem to have been over a sincere difference of opinion regarding America's national interest.
A lot of people disagreed with Obama about America's national interest. Some of them thought we should get closer to Turkey, perhaps. Some of them thought we should get closer to Russia, even though Russia was invading Crimea.  Yet no sincere person believed all three things.

If you pick a fight to get Obama to fire you, then write a book about how out of touch Obama is, but then take money from both Russia and from Turkey, you're not a sincere American patriot, with a difference of opinion, no, you're just after fame and money. Everyone in the Obama administration who dealt with Flynn knew this. Pence knew this.

The lie that Flynn told Pence probably concerned one of these things. Trump knew this also at one time. He is just conveniently forgetting, to get an anti-Biden story into the news cycle.

BLUE: Obama fired Flynn because they strongly disagreed on Iran. Bringing up Turkey and Russia is a typical Leftist red-herring.

RED: Taking money from a foreign country is not unpatriotic. Performing what that country asks in opposition to US interests (such as allowing them to take over US uranium rights) while taking money would be unpatriotic, as would using US government influence to pressure that country into allowing your son to continue getting money. In the case of Turkey it is a NATO member nation, and can't just be treated with the garbage Erdogan deserves. Russia is a major nuclear power who can wipe out half the planet. Because of that Putin can't be treated with the garbage he deserves either. Same with China, a country the Left massively panders to.

GREEN: The lie that Flynn told Pence was that he didn't have a conversation with the Russian ambassador, but you knew that.

(05-20-2020, 11:35 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-19-2020, 09:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The nicest way to put it is that Michael Flynn is a complex character.
The truth is that he is a chameleon always looking for his next mark.
We can't be sure exactly why Obama fired him, but it does not seem to have been over a sincere difference of opinion regarding America's national interest.
A lot of people disagreed with Obama about America's national interest. Some of them thought we should get closer to Turkey, perhaps. Some of them thought we should get closer to Russia, even though Russia was invading Crimea.  Yet no sincere person believed all three things.

If you pick a fight to get Obama to fire you, then write a book about how out of touch Obama is, but then take money from both Russia and from Turkey, you're not a sincere American patriot, with a difference of opinion, no, you're just after fame and money. Everyone in the Obama administration who dealt with Flynn knew this. Pence knew this.

The lie that Flynn told Pence probably concerned one of these things. Trump knew this also at one time. He is just conveniently forgetting, to get an anti-Biden story into the news cycle.

BLUE: Obama fired Flynn because they strongly disagreed on Iran. Bringing up Turkey and Russia is a typical Leftist red-herring.

RED: Taking money from a foreign country is not unpatriotic. Performing what that country asks in opposition to US interests (such as allowing them to take over US uranium rights) while taking money would be unpatriotic, as would using US government influence to pressure that country into allowing your son to continue getting money. In the case of Turkey it is a NATO member nation, and can't just be treated with the garbage Erdogan deserves. Russia is a major nuclear power who can wipe out half the planet. Because of that Putin can't be treated with the garbage he deserves either. Same with China, a country the Left massively panders to.

GREEN: The lie that Flynn told Pence was that he didn't have a conversation with the Russian ambassador, but you knew that.

First of all, you're one of the better posters here.  Lots of moving parts in my post and I appreciate you color coding the various responses.
You're likely right that Flynn and Obama disagreed about Iran in particular.  Iran and Turkey are cool to each other, but they're in conflict over Syria.  Russia and Iran are on friendly terms. The Turkish lobbying work lines up a little better with belligerence to Iran.  Being friendly with Russia doesn't line up at all.
I actually have no idea what lie Pence caught Flynn in.

Now John Kerry is directly implicated in the Joe Biden Quid Pro Quo with Ukraine.

This is why Obama had to destroy Flynn. Flynn was going to completely remake the intel agencies, after making them each try to justify their existence. Also, Flynn had the goods on the ISIS hoax and the secret backdoor Iran deal.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/...obama-iran

(05-22-2020, 09:15 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]This is why Obama had to destroy Flynn.  Flynn was going to completely remake the intel agencies, after making them each try to justify their existence.  Also, Flynn had the goods on the ISIS hoax and the secret backdoor Iran deal.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/...obama-iran

What was the ISIS hoax?

(05-22-2020, 12:21 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2020, 09:15 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]This is why Obama had to destroy Flynn.  Flynn was going to completely remake the intel agencies, after making them each try to justify their existence.  Also, Flynn had the goods on the ISIS hoax and the secret backdoor Iran deal.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/...obama-iran

What was the ISIS hoax?

The article says that the Obama admin wanted to minimize ISIS as a "JV team" and Flynn was not on board with that. 
Obama got in a lot of trouble with Fox News over the JV team comment, years later, but Obama's point at the time was, with US troops withdrawn, unsavory groups were bound to start taking over various cities in Iraq. The US didn't have to take any interest in it. Flynn didn't disagree at the time, IIRC. We don't have to care who the mayor of Ramadi is, unless, and only unless, he is trying to kill Americans.

(05-22-2020, 12:21 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-22-2020, 09:15 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]This is why Obama had to destroy Flynn.  Flynn was going to completely remake the intel agencies, after making them each try to justify their existence.  Also, Flynn had the goods on the ISIS hoax and the secret backdoor Iran deal.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/...obama-iran

What was the ISIS hoax?

ISIS was a CIA scheme to undermine Assad by arming regional extremist groups.  It was used as a BS reason for the US to have an uninvited military presence in Syria.  Typical spook stuff, create a fake problem then introduce the desired solution.  But they got out of hand and started slaughtering Christians, gays, women.  Obama "fought ISIS" for years and got nowhere despite having 50x the resources, complete air power, etc.  just couldn't find 'em somehow.  Flynn knows everything.

The "Obamacare" or "unmasking" investigation has concluded.
There were no indictments.
There will be no public report.

I really miss BLT. He was ill with the 'Rona and hasn't been online since July. I hope he's alright.

(10-14-2020, 12:04 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I really miss BLT. He was ill with the 'Rona and hasn't been online since July. I hope he's alright.

Dang.  Seconded.

(10-14-2020, 12:27 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2020, 12:04 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I really miss BLT. He was ill with the 'Rona and hasn't been online since July. I hope he's alright.

Dang.  Seconded.

Thirded.  Also, has anyone heard anything from Gabe?  It looks like he has disappeared as well.

(10-15-2020, 05:20 AM)KodiakJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2020, 12:27 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Dang.  Seconded.

Thirded.  Also, has anyone heard anything from Gabe?  It looks like he has disappeared as well.

For the sake of sanity, Gabe and NYC are avoiding the political forum. Although, I haven't seen Gabe comment lately in the football section. But given the state of the Jaguars, it's probably safe to avoid that section, as well, for the sake of sanity.