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I can't believe these people are calling for defunding. They claim black lives matter, but they don't care one bit.

(06-05-2020, 10:44 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Can you imagine what defunding the police would do to the poor communities democratic leadership pretends to care about?

Why would anybody still be a democrat?

Because they have successfully blamed either their opposition or the country @ large for their own failures.

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(06-05-2020, 11:31 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-05-2020, 09:57 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]Minneapolis City Council wants to delete the Police Department and start over with the Nice Patrol:

“Several of us on the council are working on finding out what it would take to disband the Minneapolis Police Department and start fresh with a community-oriented, nonviolent public safety and outreach capacity,” he wrote.

I fully support the ability of local government to experiment with policy. After a few months we will see exactly how well the Left can govern. Of course when it doesn't work out the story will be buried by the MSM.

I have to disagree.  When the problem fails it will be on the front pages.  They will blame it on lack of funding for schools & outreach.

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(06-05-2020, 12:41 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Policing will stay the same as long as they treat drugs the same way and keep hiring low IQ goons into the forces

Ignorance

Police are waaaaay under paid now. Defunding then isn’t going to incentivize good people to join the police force. Hell I pay mid level mechanics more than starting wages for a sheriff in clay, St. John’s and duval make.

Cops are asked to do too many jobs.
There are not enough social workers in this country, and the government doesn't hire enough therapists for the people who really need one but can't afford one. All that makes policing harder than it needs to be.

I'd be all for paying cops more, but it's not going to happen.
Not that they don't deserve it. Many do. Not that the local governments couldn't find the money. Most could. The issue is deeper.

Every time there is ever any kind of negative story about the police, what do you hear? F.O.P. has his back. Union has his back. He stays on the job. The police won't police their own and they make life difficult for anyone who tries to do it for them. Tear all that down, wait a few years, the public might be on board for a "pay cops more" type campaign.

(06-05-2020, 10:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Cops are asked to do too many jobs.
There are not enough social workers in this country, and the government doesn't hire enough therapists for the people who really need one but can't afford one.  All that makes policing harder than it needs to be.

I'd be all for paying cops more, but it's not going to happen.  
Not that they don't deserve it.  Many do.  Not that the local governments couldn't find the money.  Most could.  The issue is deeper.

Every time there is ever any kind of negative story about the police, what do you hear? F.O.P. has his back.  Union has his back. He stays on the job.  The police won't police their own and they make life difficult for anyone who tries to do it for them.  Tear all that down, wait a few years, the public might be on board for a "pay cops more" type campaign.

Whoever you are, stealing is a crime. Give mikesez his cell phone back.

What I don't get it these people calling to defund the police are just going to create a wider economic gap. The haves will hire their own security forces that won't have to live under the rules the cops have. You already see it with leftist politicians wanting to ban guns while surrounding themselves with security with guns. Maybe that is part of the plan.

(06-05-2020, 10:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Cops are asked to do too many jobs.
There are not enough social workers in this country, and the government doesn't hire enough therapists for the people who really need one but can't afford one.  All that makes policing harder than it needs to be.

I'd be all for paying cops more, but it's not going to happen.  
Not that they don't deserve it.  Many do.  Not that the local governments couldn't find the money.  Most could.  The issue is deeper.

Every time there is ever any kind of negative story about the police, what do you hear? F.O.P. has his back.  Union has his back. He stays on the job.  The police won't police their own and they make life difficult for anyone who tries to do it for them.  Tear all that down, wait a few years, the public might be on board for a "pay cops more" type campaign.

An FOP doesn’t have a strong enough hand to stop the firing of a dirty cop. They don’t hold the same power as a union. 

The idea that police don’t police themselves is a myth. You can’t imagine how many cops I’ve seen fired for something as little as lying about signing out equipment. This idea comes from the public’s perception when they see a cop like Chauvin get 17 complaints over 19 years so he must’ve been dirty, and the department covered for him. People complain about everything. Often they do it just to ruin your career. 

Tear what down? What does that even mean? You can’t propose ideas without an idea of how to accomplish the goal. It’s easy to say rebuild the police department with less corruption while ignoring that there’s no foolproof method to weed that out. And when the next George Floyd happens, we’ll be back here saying the same thing. 

Your suggestion that paying for good cops will come after they’re fixed ignores that bad cops won’t fix it.

(06-06-2020, 02:01 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-05-2020, 10:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Cops are asked to do too many jobs.
There are not enough social workers in this country, and the government doesn't hire enough therapists for the people who really need one but can't afford one.  All that makes policing harder than it needs to be.

I'd be all for paying cops more, but it's not going to happen.  
Not that they don't deserve it.  Many do.  Not that the local governments couldn't find the money.  Most could.  The issue is deeper.

Every time there is ever any kind of negative story about the police, what do you hear? F.O.P. has his back.  Union has his back. He stays on the job.  The police won't police their own and they make life difficult for anyone who tries to do it for them.  Tear all that down, wait a few years, the public might be on board for a "pay cops more" type campaign.

An FOP doesn’t have a strong enough hand to stop the firing of a dirty cop. They don’t hold the same power as a union. 

The idea that police don’t police themselves is a myth. You can’t imagine how many cops I’ve seen fired for something as little as lying about signing out equipment. This idea comes from the public’s perception when they see a cop like Chauvin get 17 complaints over 19 years so he must’ve been dirty, and the department covered for him. People complain about everything. Often they do it just to ruin your career. 

Tear what down? What does that even mean? You can’t propose ideas without an idea of how to accomplish the goal. It’s easy to say rebuild the police department with less corruption while ignoring that there’s no foolproof method to weed that out. And when the next George Floyd happens, we’ll be back here saying the same thing. 

Your suggestion that paying for good cops will come after they’re fixed ignores that bad cops won’t fix it.

True, complaints are not evidence of wrong doing in our Karen-based society of scolding.

(06-06-2020, 02:01 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-05-2020, 10:02 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Cops are asked to do too many jobs.
There are not enough social workers in this country, and the government doesn't hire enough therapists for the people who really need one but can't afford one.  All that makes policing harder than it needs to be.

I'd be all for paying cops more, but it's not going to happen.  
Not that they don't deserve it.  Many do.  Not that the local governments couldn't find the money.  Most could.  The issue is deeper.

Every time there is ever any kind of negative story about the police, what do you hear? F.O.P. has his back.  Union has his back. He stays on the job.  The police won't police their own and they make life difficult for anyone who tries to do it for them.  Tear all that down, wait a few years, the public might be on board for a "pay cops more" type campaign.

An FOP doesn’t have a strong enough hand to stop the firing of a dirty cop. They don’t hold the same power as a union. 

The idea that police don’t police themselves is a myth. You can’t imagine how many cops I’ve seen fired for something as little as lying about signing out equipment. This idea comes from the public’s perception when they see a cop like Chauvin get 17 complaints over 19 years so he must’ve been dirty, and the department covered for him. People complain about everything. Often they do it just to ruin your career. 

Tear what down? What does that even mean? You can’t propose ideas without an idea of how to accomplish the goal. It’s easy to say rebuild the police department with less corruption while ignoring that there’s no foolproof method to weed that out. And when the next George Floyd happens, we’ll be back here saying the same thing. 

Your suggestion that paying for good cops will come after they’re fixed ignores that bad cops won’t fix it.

I saw that the US Senate is considering a bill to make a national database of cops that get dismissed from a department for abusing suspects. So that cop can't be hired by some other department that has no idea of his history. I guess that would help. 

I'm not a cop and I never will be a cop. But I think I speak for a lot of people when I say, my tolerance for cops failing to sign out equipment is a lot higher than my tolerance for them using force on guys who have already submitted, or stealing from suspects.  The latter should be just warnings until the third or fourth offense.  Excessive force should be one warning.  Stealing from suspects should be zero tolerance.  
I know none of  this could ever be implemented perfectly, but we need to see them trying.  Police chiefs should give, as needed, press conferences talking about which cops have been disciplined and fired.  No need to name names, just tell us "one officer did this, another did that." and what the remedy was.

(06-06-2020, 02:01 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]An FOP doesn’t have a strong enough hand to stop the firing of a dirty cop. They don’t hold the same power as a union. 

The idea that police don’t police themselves is a myth. You can’t imagine how many cops I’ve seen fired for something as little as lying about signing out equipment. This idea comes from the public’s perception when they see a cop like Chauvin get 17 complaints over 19 years so he must’ve been dirty, and the department covered for him. People complain about everything. Often they do it just to ruin your career. 

Tear what down? What does that even mean? You can’t propose ideas without an idea of how to accomplish the goal. It’s easy to say rebuild the police department with less corruption while ignoring that there’s no foolproof method to weed that out. And when the next George Floyd happens, we’ll be back here saying the same thing. 

Your suggestion that paying for good cops will come after they’re fixed ignores that bad cops won’t fix it.

I would consider such offense an integrity issue.

(06-06-2020, 09:42 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-06-2020, 02:01 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]An FOP doesn’t have a strong enough hand to stop the firing of a dirty cop. They don’t hold the same power as a union. 

The idea that police don’t police themselves is a myth. You can’t imagine how many cops I’ve seen fired for something as little as lying about signing out equipment. This idea comes from the public’s perception when they see a cop like Chauvin get 17 complaints over 19 years so he must’ve been dirty, and the department covered for him. People complain about everything. Often they do it just to ruin your career. 

Tear what down? What does that even mean? You can’t propose ideas without an idea of how to accomplish the goal. It’s easy to say rebuild the police department with less corruption while ignoring that there’s no foolproof method to weed that out. And when the next George Floyd happens, we’ll be back here saying the same thing. 

Your suggestion that paying for good cops will come after they’re fixed ignores that bad cops won’t fix it.

I saw that the US Senate is considering a bill to make a national database of cops that get dismissed from a department for abusing suspects. So that cop can't be hired by some other department that has no idea of his history. I guess that would help. 

I'm not a cop and I never will be a cop. But I think I speak for a lot of people when I say, my tolerance for cops failing to sign out equipment is a lot higher than my tolerance for them using force on guys who have already submitted, or stealing from suspects.  The latter should be just warnings until the third or fourth offense.  Excessive force should be one warning.  Stealing from suspects should be zero tolerance.  
I know none of  this could ever be implemented perfectly, but we need to see them trying.  Police chiefs should give, as needed, press conferences talking about which cops have been disciplined and fired.  No need to name names, just tell us "one officer did this, another did that." and what the remedy was.

Termination of employment for wrongdoing is already reported to the state. Making a national database won’t change that, and it doesn’t make any considerable difference to the issues people have with police. I will admit that incompetent officers are too often hired by other departments when fired. But that’s because most departments are critically low on man power, and they see it as the best option available. 

A confirmed excessive force should be, at minimum, a suspension. I believe, however, that a lot of people think something is excessive when it isn’t. A mere complaint for excessive force, when unfounded or unknown, shouldn’t result in any sort of punishment. 

Stealing is an automatic termination in my department. 

(06-06-2020, 10:36 AM)Sammy Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-06-2020, 02:01 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]An FOP doesn’t have a strong enough hand to stop the firing of a dirty cop. They don’t hold the same power as a union. 

The idea that police don’t police themselves is a myth. You can’t imagine how many cops I’ve seen fired for something as little as lying about signing out equipment. This idea comes from the public’s perception when they see a cop like Chauvin get 17 complaints over 19 years so he must’ve been dirty, and the department covered for him. People complain about everything. Often they do it just to ruin your career. 

Tear what down? What does that even mean? You can’t propose ideas without an idea of how to accomplish the goal. It’s easy to say rebuild the police department with less corruption while ignoring that there’s no foolproof method to weed that out. And when the next George Floyd happens, we’ll be back here saying the same thing. 

Your suggestion that paying for good cops will come after they’re fixed ignores that bad cops won’t fix it.

I would consider such offense an integrity issue.

Agreed. I’m not excusing it. Only showing that we’re not intentionally allowing thieves and liars to work.

(06-06-2020, 10:34 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/JohnnyHeatWave/statu...50597?s=20

Lol. I talked to a dude that lives in a poor black neighborhood yesterday. He's fed up. He's scared these actions are going to cause police to come into his area less, and he believes the crime is going to go up. I think it's pretty pathetic how white liberals, who sit in their comfortable areas of town, propagate lies about the police and complete neglect the real needs of law abiding citizens. I think it's pathetic that our news media, who profits TREMENDOUSLY every time one of these shootings occurs, continues to distort facts and manipulate people into believing they are likely to be killed by a police officer if they move the wrong way.

(06-05-2020, 04:55 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]I can't believe these people are calling for defunding. They claim black lives matter, but they don't care one bit.

LOL.  Defunding the police department.  Wait until they call 911 and nobody answers the phone.

(06-06-2020, 05:26 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-05-2020, 04:55 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]I can't believe these people are calling for defunding. They claim black lives matter, but they don't care one bit.

LOL.  Defunding the police department.  Wait until they call 911 and nobody answers the phone.

You can defund police and still keep for emergencies. The trained farm yard animals can keep away from non important call outs

(06-07-2020, 12:18 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-06-2020, 05:26 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]LOL.  Defunding the police department.  Wait until they call 911 and nobody answers the phone.

You can defund police and still keep for emergencies. The trained farm yard animals can keep away from non important call outs

Caller: Someone is shooting people, come quick
911: You took the budget away, the 1 cop will get there when they can
Cop: Since you took my gun away and I can't hurt you, please let me know when you run out of bullets. I'll then let you cuff yourself and get in the back of my car.

(06-07-2020, 01:28 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-07-2020, 12:18 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]You can defund police and still keep for emergencies. The trained farm yard animals can keep away from non important call outs

Caller: Someone is shooting people, come quick
911: You took the budget away, the 1 cop will get there when they can
Cop: Since you took my gun away and I can't hurt you, please let me know when you run out of bullets. I'll then let you cuff yourself and get in the back of my car.

This may come as a shock to you but you know theres examples of refunded police units that were revamped with more modern practices and the crime rates were significantly lowered! 

You don't need to live in as much of a nanny state as you want to

(06-07-2020, 06:09 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-07-2020, 01:28 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]Caller: Someone is shooting people, come quick
911: You took the budget away, the 1 cop will get there when they can
Cop: Since you took my gun away and I can't hurt you, please let me know when you run out of bullets. I'll then let you cuff yourself and get in the back of my car.

This may come as a shock to you but you know theres examples of refunded police units that were revamped with more modern practices and the crime rates were significantly lowered! 

You don't need to live in as much of a nanny state as you want to

That sounds interesting, do you have some links?

(06-07-2020, 06:09 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-07-2020, 01:28 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]Caller: Someone is shooting people, come quick
911: You took the budget away, the 1 cop will get there when they can
Cop: Since you took my gun away and I can't hurt you, please let me know when you run out of bullets. I'll then let you cuff yourself and get in the back of my car.

This may come as a shock to you but you know theres examples of refunded police units that were revamped with more modern practices and the crime rates were significantly lowered! 

You don't need to live in as much of a nanny state as you want to

1)  I assume "refunded" is a typo.
2)  How do you "revamp" a defunded department?  Are they paid personnel or private citizens with guns?  I like the idea of a well regulated militia!
3)  What are the "modern" practices to which you refer?

(06-07-2020, 06:50 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-07-2020, 06:09 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]This may come as a shock to you but you know theres examples of refunded police units that were revamped with more modern practices and the crime rates were significantly lowered! 

You don't need to live in as much of a nanny state as you want to

That sounds interesting, do you have some links?

Camden, New Jersey

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(06-07-2020, 08:47 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-07-2020, 06:09 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]This may come as a shock to you but you know theres examples of refunded police units that were revamped with more modern practices and the crime rates were significantly lowered! 

You don't need to live in as much of a nanny state as you want to

1)  I assume "refunded" is a typo.
2)  How do you "revamp" a defunded department?  Are they paid personnel or private citizens with guns?  I like the idea of a well regulated militia!
3)  What are the "modern" practices to which you refer?

1) yes 
2) You defund the current organization and disband, it then make a new one with reformed practices 
3) Focus on descalation,  treating personal drug use as a healthcare problem , mental health experts being deployed, removal of secondary military gear, closer background checks on officers etc etc, modern practices in other words