(06-07-2020, 02:11 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 06:50 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]That sounds interesting, do you have some links?
Camden, New Jersey
(06-07-2020, 08:47 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]1) I assume "refunded" is a typo.
2) How do you "revamp" a defunded department? Are they paid personnel or private citizens with guns? I like the idea of a well regulated militia!
3) What are the "modern" practices to which you refer?
1) yes
2) You defund the current organization and disband, it then make a new one with reformed practices
3) Focus on descalation, treating personal drug use as a healthcare problem , mental health experts being deployed, removal of secondary military gear, closer background checks on officers etc etc, modern practices in other words
Interesting story. More cops and more arrests mean fewer violent crimes and lower the need to use force. A good model for a small town like Camden.
(06-07-2020, 02:11 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 06:50 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]That sounds interesting, do you have some links?
Camden, New Jersey
(06-07-2020, 08:47 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]1) I assume "refunded" is a typo.
2) How do you "revamp" a defunded department? Are they paid personnel or private citizens with guns? I like the idea of a well regulated militia!
3) What are the "modern" practices to which you refer?
1) yes
2) You defund the current organization and disband, it then make a new one with reformed practices
3) Focus on descalation, treating personal drug use as a healthcare problem , mental health experts being deployed, removal of secondary military gear, closer background checks on officers etc etc, modern practices in other words
Deescalation is the new buzzword. Police departments have been focusing on that for decades. Training them less on how to physically resolve a situation will get them or someone else killed.
The police shouldn’t be involved in treating drugs or mental. It conflicts with the goal of enforcing laws. If the goal is to treat people, there should a group of people doing that.
That military gear seems to be pretty useful during these riots. They don’t need to go anywhere. How would military equipment have stopped unjustified shootings or the injustices you claim these communities face?
Background checks often including calling every neighbor you’ve ever had, every employer, criminal arrests, debt, lawsuits, psychological evaluations, written examinations, etc. I’m not against the idea of making them more thorough. I just don’t know what else you could reasonably do.
I can't take this utopian drivel. In 2019 you have 1/3 the chance of being hit by lightning to be an unarmed black man killed by police. that's 9 instances out of 10 million or so police interactions and most of those were justified. You're going to have human beings exerting the force of the state to coerce people into behavior they don't want to undergo. That shouldn't be done lightly and that shouldn't be toyed with by children. I want to make policing as perfect as possible, but not at the expense of officer and community safety in the name of sentimentality.
(06-07-2020, 07:47 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 02:11 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Camden, New Jersey
1) yes
2) You defund the current organization and disband, it then make a new one with reformed practices
3) Focus on descalation, treating personal drug use as a healthcare problem , mental health experts being deployed, removal of secondary military gear, closer background checks on officers etc etc, modern practices in other words
Deescalation is the new buzzword. Police departments have been focusing on that for decades. Training them less on how to physically resolve a situation will get them or someone else killed.
The police shouldn’t be involved in treating drugs or mental. It conflicts with the goal of enforcing laws. If the goal is to treat people, there should a group of people doing that.
That military gear seems to be pretty useful during these riots. They don’t need to go anywhere. How would military equipment have stopped unjustified shootings or the injustices you claim these communities face?
Background checks often including calling every neighbor you’ve ever had, every employer, criminal arrests, debt, lawsuits, psychological evaluations, written examinations, etc. I’m not against the idea of making them more thorough. I just don’t know what else you could reasonably do.
Cool. It hasn't worked at all based on the evidence of the past week.
The military gear directly contributed to the escalation of peaceful protests and brutality inflicted on peaceful protestors by police. Also tear gassing at your first point of contact with a peaceful crowd should be the antithesis of modern policing.
The important part of your last paragraph is that background checks need to maintain while the officer is active , too many loose cannons allowed to continue working.. Police offers are more likely to be involved in domestic violence cases at home for a reason, better psychological testing can be done very easily, but of course the mental profile they deem acceptable is part of the problem
(06-07-2020, 08:23 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 07:47 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]Deescalation is the new buzzword. Police departments have been focusing on that for decades. Training them less on how to physically resolve a situation will get them or someone else killed.
The police shouldn’t be involved in treating drugs or mental. It conflicts with the goal of enforcing laws. If the goal is to treat people, there should a group of people doing that.
That military gear seems to be pretty useful during these riots. They don’t need to go anywhere. How would military equipment have stopped unjustified shootings or the injustices you claim these communities face?
Background checks often including calling every neighbor you’ve ever had, every employer, criminal arrests, debt, lawsuits, psychological evaluations, written examinations, etc. I’m not against the idea of making them more thorough. I just don’t know what else you could reasonably do.
Cool. It hasn't worked at all based on the evidence of the past week.
The military gear directly contributed to the escalation of peaceful protests and brutality inflicted on peaceful protestors by police. Also tear gassing at your first point of contact with a peaceful crowd should be the antithesis of modern policing.
The important part of your last paragraph is that background checks need to maintain while the officer is active , too many loose cannons allowed to continue working.. Police offers are more likely to be involved in domestic violence cases at home for a reason, better psychological testing can be done very easily, but of course the mental profile they deem acceptable is part of the problem
You take all the blame away from the protestors. Atlanta PD, and many other agencies, refrained from using anything until [BLEEP] hit the fan. I’m fact, CNN was all over the news taking about how well Atlanta handled the protests because they didn’t come out in riot gear. Until thirty minutes later when the peaceful protest devolved into madness like many of them do. Then they had to bring the gear.
What is their acceptable mental profile? The job requires a person capable of being violent. I agree that many situations can be deescalated, but that isn’t often what happens. And any job that requires you to see the things they see will task anyone’s mental capabilities. It’s changes people. It isn’t simple to eliminate bad officers based strictly on their personalities. They do need more mental help, but I don’t think we’ll agree on what kind of person the job requires.
(06-07-2020, 10:11 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ] (06-07-2020, 08:23 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Cool. It hasn't worked at all based on the evidence of the past week.
The military gear directly contributed to the escalation of peaceful protests and brutality inflicted on peaceful protestors by police. Also tear gassing at your first point of contact with a peaceful crowd should be the antithesis of modern policing.
The important part of your last paragraph is that background checks need to maintain while the officer is active , too many loose cannons allowed to continue working.. Police offers are more likely to be involved in domestic violence cases at home for a reason, better psychological testing can be done very easily, but of course the mental profile they deem acceptable is part of the problem
You take all the blame away from the protestors. Atlanta PD, and many other agencies, refrained from using anything until [BLEEP] hit the fan. I’m fact, CNN was all over the news taking about how well Atlanta handled the protests because they didn’t come out in riot gear. Until thirty minutes later when the peaceful protest devolved into madness like many of them do. Then they had to bring the gear.
What is their acceptable mental profile? The job requires a person capable of being violent. I agree that many situations can be deescalated, but that isn’t often what happens. And any job that requires you to see the things they see will task anyone’s mental capabilities. It’s changes people. It isn’t simple to eliminate bad officers based strictly on their personalities. They do need more mental help, but I don’t think we’ll agree on what kind of person the job requires.
Tear gassing peaceful protesters was a country wide tactic (including Jacksonville) , that's an escalation tactic and also there are literally thousands of videos of police abusing peaceful protesters. Not sure how many you watched but cops were showing up head to toe in gear to meet with peaceful protestors (again an escalation tactic).
unfortunately it's a job where you can't afford to have anything but the highest standards. sure you need people who are prepared to be physical but needs be, but that is useless without control, which is why so many cops beat their wives relative to normal humans. As Chris Rock says some jobs you can't afford "bad apples", cops can't afford to just let anyone in and remain despite a litany of errors.
(06-08-2020, 12:09 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Tear gassing peaceful protesters was a country wide tactic (including Jacksonville) , that's an escalation tactic and also there are literally thousands of videos of police abusing peaceful protesters. Not sure how many you watched but cops were showing up head to toe in gear to meet with peaceful protestors (again an escalation tactic).
unfortunately it's a job where you can't afford to have anything but the highest standards. sure you need people who are prepared to be physical but needs be, but that is useless without control, which is why so many cops beat their wives relative to normal humans. As Chris Rock says some jobs you can't afford "bad apples", cops can't afford to just let anyone in and remain despite a litany of errors.
I can’t speak about every instance because that would take all day.
Showing up in riot get isn’t the police escalating it. It’s a response to behavior. These cities didn’t pull out the riot gear until everything went to [BLEEP]. Sure, they showed up a few times when it wasn’t needed, but you can’t show up with riot gear AFTER the riot.
You can’t find a job that requires perfection. You’re never going to get it, either. This isn't a job where you have a pilot sitting in a $100 million jet that took hundreds of engineers years to design. What’s the acceptable amount of errors a cop can make before they’re fired? The errors they make seem so personal, and people are outraged because they know how they’d feel if it happened to them, but this idea where perfection (or even close to it) is expected is unachievable.
(06-08-2020, 02:26 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2020, 12:09 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Tear gassing peaceful protesters was a country wide tactic (including Jacksonville) , that's an escalation tactic and also there are literally thousands of videos of police abusing peaceful protesters. Not sure how many you watched but cops were showing up head to toe in gear to meet with peaceful protestors (again an escalation tactic).
unfortunately it's a job where you can't afford to have anything but the highest standards. sure you need people who are prepared to be physical but needs be, but that is useless without control, which is why so many cops beat their wives relative to normal humans. As Chris Rock says some jobs you can't afford "bad apples", cops can't afford to just let anyone in and remain despite a litany of errors.
I can’t speak about every instance because that would take all day.
Showing up in riot get isn’t the police escalating it. It’s a response to behavior. These cities didn’t pull out the riot gear until everything went to [BLEEP]. Sure, they showed up a few times when it wasn’t needed, but you can’t show up with riot gear AFTER the riot.
You can’t find a job that requires perfection. You’re never going to get it, either. This isn't a job where you have a pilot sitting in a $100 million jet that took hundreds of engineers years to design. What’s the acceptable amount of errors a cop can make before they’re fired? The errors they make seem so personal, and people are outraged because they know how they’d feel if it happened to them, but this idea where perfection (or even close to it) is expected is unachievable.
The focus is also always on how the cops can do better and never on how the person interacting with the cop could have acted differently. Complying with cops instructions will not lead to a bad interaction with a cop unless the cop is a bad cop. Sure no one likes being pulled over and even if you did nothing wrong, you have to wait until it is over to fight against a bad cop. Just because you feel you shouldn't have been pulled over and it wasn't fair you were the one that got pulled over doesn't make it a racist cop.
That just goes with how the left always addresses problems and it's always the other person's fault and they have to change instead of looking within first.