Curious and hopeful that maybe we can all agree there are no easy answers. I offer a hypothetical question:
A white police officer is sitting in his car on the side of the street finishing up some paperwork when he hears over the radio: “Be on the lookout for a black male in his mid to late 20’s wearing a red shirt and driving a blue sedan. He has been involved in a domestic dispute and has abducted a 4 year old child. He is considered to be armed and dangerous.”
At that moment a 27 year old black male headed to work driving a blue sedan crosses the intersection the police officer is sitting at. The man is dropping of his 4 year old son at the daycare around the corner before starting his day as an Asst. Manager at Target.
Now ask yourself the following questions.
1. What should the police officer do?
2. How would you respond if you were the man headed to work?
3. How many different ways can this interaction go depending on either the young mans or the police officers actions?
I'll add my two cents here before this thread goes to pot like all the others have: None of the people on this forum have the training to deal with situations like this. And one of the problems that have lead to these protests is that most of the police hasn't had that training either. Becoming a police office in the US requires a high school diploma and less than three months of training, after which not only are you fully qualified to use deadly force, you're now also in a position where you're functionally immune from virtually any prosecution for abuse of power.
1. As officer, advise dispatch that a vehicle/driver matching the profile has been spotted and request additional info. If it is a domestic dispute/custody issue, the suspect's identity and probably vehicle specifics should be known to the complaining party. Pull over suspect and establish identification. When non-match is confirmed, explain the reason for the stop, apologize for the inconvenience and clear suspect to leave.
2. As driver, I would thank the officer for doing his/her job in a professional manner and acknowledge the safety of the child is of greater importance than the potential inconvenience to me.
3. Depending on the personalities/temperaments of both officer and driver, it could also go wrong about a hundred different ways.
(06-05-2020, 09:51 AM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]I'll add my two cents here before this thread goes to pot like all the others have: None of the people on this forum have the training to deal with situations like this. And one of the problems that have lead to these protests is that most of the police hasn't had that training either. Becoming a police office in the US requires a high school diploma and less than three months of training, after which not only are you fully qualified to use deadly force, you're now also in a position where you're functionally immune from virtually any abuse of power.
That opinion is not worth the full two cents you're charging.
(06-05-2020, 10:04 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]That opinion is not worth the full two cents you're charging.
I've edited my post because I noticed I had made a critical error in syntax that ruined the argument I wanted to make. So if you want to present an actual counter-argument instead simply flinging some mud, be my guest.
(06-05-2020, 09:51 AM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]I'll add my two cents here before this thread goes to pot like all the others have: None of the people on this forum have the training to deal with situations like this. And one of the problems that have lead to these protests is that most of the police hasn't had that training either. Becoming a police office in the US requires a high school diploma and less than three months of training, after which not only are you fully qualified to use deadly force, you're now also in a position where you're functionally immune from virtually any prosecution for abuse of power.
You're wrong, at least two posters here are LEOs.
And being a candidate of the JSO is quite a bit more than your moronic presumption.
(06-05-2020, 10:39 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (06-05-2020, 09:51 AM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]I'll add my two cents here before this thread goes to pot like all the others have: None of the people on this forum have the training to deal with situations like this. And one of the problems that have lead to these protests is that most of the police hasn't had that training either. Becoming a police office in the US requires a high school diploma and less than three months of training, after which not only are you fully qualified to use deadly force, you're now also in a position where you're functionally immune from virtually any prosecution for abuse of power.
You're wrong, at least two posters here are LEOs.
And being a candidate of the JSO is quite a bit more than your moronic presumption.
I would bet there are numerous police departments that are less stringent than JSO. Jacksonville is a huge place with two universities, a college, and a million people.
Do you suppose Brunswick has the same requirements? I don't.
(06-05-2020, 12:28 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-05-2020, 10:39 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You're wrong, at least two posters here are LEOs.
And being a candidate of the JSO is quite a bit more than your moronic presumption.
I would bet there are numerous police departments that are less stringent than JSO. Jacksonville is a huge place with two universities, a college, and a million people.
Do you suppose Brunswick has the same requirements? I don't.
I don't know about Brunswick GA because their site is down, but South Brunswick NJ requires an Associates or 4 years in the military to qualify.
But either way my point that Dragonfury is kind of an [BLEEP] hole is born out as truth.
(06-05-2020, 09:51 AM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]I'll add my two cents here before this thread goes to pot like all the others have: None of the people on this forum have the training to deal with situations like this. And one of the problems that have lead to these protests is that most of the police hasn't had that training either. Becoming a police office in the US requires a high school diploma and less than three months of training, after which not only are you fully qualified to use deadly force, you're now also in a position where you're functionally immune from virtually any prosecution for abuse of power.
Bull [BLEEP]. I know of at least two other forum members who are police officers and I served as one many years ago. I can tell you from my experience in Bernalillo County New Mexico that the training is much longer than 3 months and continues on during your career. The screening process is also a lot more than simply filling out a job application.
(06-05-2020, 12:38 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (06-05-2020, 12:28 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I would bet there are numerous police departments that are less stringent than JSO. Jacksonville is a huge place with two universities, a college, and a million people.
Do you suppose Brunswick has the same requirements? I don't.
I don't know about Brunswick GA because their site is down, but South Brunswick NJ requires an Associates or 4 years in the military to qualify.
But either way my point that Dragonfury is kind of an [BLEEP] hole is born out as truth.
Well the academic requirements sound stricter than I thought that would be.
Certainly we all want more out of police officers than just the ability to complete some gen Ed courses or play in the marine corps band for 4 years.
But they don't just need more years of college. They might not need any, honestly. But they need specific training.
Police academy lasts for 3 to six months. It should probably last longer than that .
(06-05-2020, 01:26 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-05-2020, 12:38 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know about Brunswick GA because their site is down, but South Brunswick NJ requires an Associates or 4 years in the military to qualify.
But either way my point that Dragonfury is kind of an [BLEEP] hole is born out as truth.
Well the academic requirements sound stricter than I thought that would be.
Certainly we all want more out of police officers than just the ability to complete some gen Ed courses or play in the marine corps band for 4 years.
But they don't just need more years of college. They might not need any, honestly. But they need specific training.
Police academy lasts for 3 to six months. It should probably last longer than that .
As usual you have no idea what you are talking about.
(06-05-2020, 02:37 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-05-2020, 02:29 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]As usual you have no idea what you are talking about.
Enlighten me.
First of all the initial screening requirements just to enter the academy (from my experience) is a lot more difficult than just filling out a job application. Next, just because a candidate graduates from the academy their training (as well as probation period) is not over. Even after the probation period is over there is quarterly and annual training/testing that must be satisfactory completed in order to remain employed.
Quite frankly police officers are typically WAY underpaid for what they have to do. That's why you see so many of them "moonlight" as security for various establishments.
I became a Deputy Sheriff because I thought it would be a good rewarding job, and in some aspects that certainly was the case. However after 3 years of doing it I decided that it wasn't something that I wanted to do as a career.
(06-05-2020, 09:51 AM)DragonFury Wrote: [ -> ]I'll add my two cents here before this thread goes to pot like all the others have: None of the people on this forum have the training to deal with situations like this. And one of the problems that have lead to these protests is that most of the police hasn't had that training either. Becoming a police office in the US requires a high school diploma and less than three months of training, after which not only are you fully qualified to use deadly force, you're now also in a position where you're functionally immune from virtually any prosecution for abuse of power.
No training required for this “hypothetical” question. The rest of your post is irrelevant.
(06-05-2020, 01:36 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (06-05-2020, 09:36 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]1. What should the police officer do? IF IT'S A BAD COP, THEN HE SIMPLY TURNS HIS RECORDING CAMERA OFF AND SHOOTS BLACK MAN
You’re not even going to try and empathize with he officer in question?
(06-05-2020, 09:36 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Curious and hopeful that maybe we can all agree there are no easy answers. I offer a hypothetical question:
A white police officer is sitting in his car on the side of the street finishing up some paperwork when he hears over the radio: “Be on the lookout for a black male in his mid to late 20’s wearing a red shirt and driving a blue sedan. He has been involved in a domestic dispute and has abducted a 4 year old child. He is considered to be armed and dangerous.”
At that moment a 27 year old black male headed to work driving a blue sedan crosses the intersection the police officer is sitting at. The man is dropping of his 4 year old son at the daycare around the corner before starting his day as an Asst. Manager at Target.
Now ask yourself the following questions.
1. What should the police officer do?
2. How would you respond if you were the man headed to work?
3. How many different ways can this interaction go depending on either the young mans or the police officers actions?
Sorry I forgot to answer your original post. In my opinion another user has the right idea.
1. The police officer should call in the car matching the description including the license plate number and his location. He should initiate a traffic stop and the dispatcher should automatically start a backup unit to the location. The officer needs to approach just like any other traffic stop with the usual precautions, and upon making contact with the driver should get ID information and inform the driver as to why he was pulled over. During that contact he should note the behavior and demeanor of all occupants in the vehicle. Once information clears the driver of not being the suspect being looked for the driver should thank him for his cooperation and wish him a good day.
2. If I am the man headed to work I would hand over my identification and listen the the police officer's explanation and follow instructions. Most people don't know this, but one key thing that police officers watch is your hands. I would keep my hands in plain view at all times and not reach for anything without informing the officer what I am about to reach for.
3. It's hard to judge how the situation could go, but in this scenario I would like to think that the man going to work would be cooperative and understanding. I would also like to think that the officer would conduct himself in a professional manner. It could go south real quick for any number of reasons. Does the man that was pulled over seem irate or nervous? Is he hostile or rude towards the police officer? Does the child appear to be scared? Does the man make sudden moves or is otherwise uncooperative? Is the officer rude or "accusing"? Too many factors could make the situation go south very quickly.
(06-05-2020, 05:26 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (06-05-2020, 09:36 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Curious and hopeful that maybe we can all agree there are no easy answers. I offer a hypothetical question:
A white police officer is sitting in his car on the side of the street finishing up some paperwork when he hears over the radio: “Be on the lookout for a black male in his mid to late 20’s wearing a red shirt and driving a blue sedan. He has been involved in a domestic dispute and has abducted a 4 year old child. He is considered to be armed and dangerous.”
At that moment a 27 year old black male headed to work driving a blue sedan crosses the intersection the police officer is sitting at. The man is dropping of his 4 year old son at the daycare around the corner before starting his day as an Asst. Manager at Target.
Now ask yourself the following questions.
1. What should the police officer do?
2. How would you respond if you were the man headed to work?
3. How many different ways can this interaction go depending on either the young mans or the police officers actions?
Sorry I forgot to answer your original post. In my opinion another user has the right idea.
1. The police officer should call in the car matching the description including the license plate number and his location. He should initiate a traffic stop and the dispatcher should automatically start a backup unit to the location. The officer needs to approach just like any other traffic stop with the usual precautions, and upon making contact with the driver should get ID information and inform the driver as to why he was pulled over. During that contact he should note the behavior and demeanor of all occupants in the vehicle. Once information clears the driver of not being the suspect being looked for the driver should thank him for his cooperation and wish him a good day.
2. If I am the man headed to work I would hand over my identification and listen the the police officer's explanation and follow instructions. Most people don't know this, but one key thing that police officers watch is your hands. I would keep my hands in plain view at all times and not reach for anything without informing the officer what I am about to reach for.
3. It's hard to judge how the situation could go, but in this scenario I would like to think that the man going to work would be cooperative and understanding. I would also like to think that the officer would conduct himself in a professional manner. It could go south real quick for any number of reasons. Does the man that was pulled over seem irate or nervous? Is he hostile or rude towards the police officer? Does the child appear to be scared? Does the man make sudden moves or is otherwise uncooperative? Is the officer rude or "accusing"? Too many factors could make the situation go south very quickly.
And #3 is the point I was attempting to reach. There are so many variables in every single encounter. We cannot pigeon hole every encounter regardless of what the media tells us what we should feel. One small mistake by either party can make a routine stop go sideways. We all need to show some empathy.
I'd shoot first and ask questions later.
(06-05-2020, 09:36 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Curious and hopeful that maybe we can all agree there are no easy answers. I offer a hypothetical question:
A white police officer is sitting in his car on the side of the street finishing up some paperwork when he hears over the radio: “Be on the lookout for a black male in his mid to late 20’s wearing a red shirt and driving a blue sedan. He has been involved in a domestic dispute and has abducted a 4 year old child. He is considered to be armed and dangerous.”
At that moment a 27 year old black male headed to work driving a blue sedan crosses the intersection the police officer is sitting at. The man is dropping of his 4 year old son at the daycare around the corner before starting his day as an Asst. Manager at Target.
Now ask yourself the following questions.
1. What should the police officer do?
2. How would you respond if you were the man headed to work?
3. How many different ways can this interaction go depending on either the young mans or the police officers actions?
1. He should do his job.
Preferably without brutalizing or killing anyone.
2. Like I got pulled over by a cop who may suspect I am someone else? Ummm, what is the alternative?
3. If the cop recognizes that there are more than one young fathers with blue cars and red shirts - that would help him do his job without screwing up the "interaction."
Geez, I hope that's not too big a stretch to ask of our police force that I'm told would not benefit from any improvement whatsoever in vetting or training.
(06-05-2020, 09:36 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Curious and hopeful that maybe we can all agree there are no easy answers. I offer a hypothetical question:
A white police officer is sitting in his car on the side of the street finishing up some paperwork when he hears over the radio: “Be on the lookout for a black male in his mid to late 20’s wearing a red shirt and driving a blue sedan. He has been involved in a domestic dispute and has abducted a 4 year old child. He is considered to be armed and dangerous.”
At that moment a 27 year old black male headed to work driving a blue sedan crosses the intersection the police officer is sitting at. The man is dropping of his 4 year old son at the daycare around the corner before starting his day as an Asst. Manager at Target.
Now ask yourself the following questions.
1. What should the police officer do?
2. How would you respond if you were the man headed to work?
3. How many different ways can this interaction go depending on either the young mans or the police officers actions?
It's worth noting, Hands up Dont shoot never happened. That means that we are dealing with an alogical political entity that doesnt care about truth or who gets hurt in the crossfire. There is no reasoning with that.
(06-05-2020, 07:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-05-2020, 09:36 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Curious and hopeful that maybe we can all agree there are no easy answers. I offer a hypothetical question:
A white police officer is sitting in his car on the side of the street finishing up some paperwork when he hears over the radio: “Be on the lookout for a black male in his mid to late 20’s wearing a red shirt and driving a blue sedan. He has been involved in a domestic dispute and has abducted a 4 year old child. He is considered to be armed and dangerous.”
At that moment a 27 year old black male headed to work driving a blue sedan crosses the intersection the police officer is sitting at. The man is dropping of his 4 year old son at the daycare around the corner before starting his day as an Asst. Manager at Target.
Now ask yourself the following questions.
1. What should the police officer do?
2. How would you respond if you were the man headed to work?
3. How many different ways can this interaction go depending on either the young mans or the police officers actions?
1. He should do his job.
Preferably without brutalizing or killing anyone.
2. Like I got pulled over by a cop who may suspect I am someone else? Ummm, what is the alternative?
3. If the cop recognizes that there are more than one young fathers with blue cars and red shirts - that would help him do his job without screwing up the "interaction."
Geez, I hope that's not too big a stretch to ask of our police force that I'm told would not benefit from any improvement whatsoever in vetting or training.
1. Suspect is to be considered armed and dangerous. How should he approach the vehicle? Andy Griffith or gun drawn?
2. Did you just get pulled over for driving while black or did you just get pulled over for fitting the description of someone who committed a crime?
3. If the young man being pulled over realized there may be a reasonable explanation for him being pulled over besides him being black it might alter the interaction.
There is potential for both parties in this scenario to make this go sideways. You appear to focus on only one side. I posed the question so that perhaps we could all take a step back and consider the other side.
(06-05-2020, 07:44 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-05-2020, 09:36 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Curious and hopeful that maybe we can all agree there are no easy answers. I offer a hypothetical question:
A white police officer is sitting in his car on the side of the street finishing up some paperwork when he hears over the radio: “Be on the lookout for a black male in his mid to late 20’s wearing a red shirt and driving a blue sedan. He has been involved in a domestic dispute and has abducted a 4 year old child. He is considered to be armed and dangerous.”
At that moment a 27 year old black male headed to work driving a blue sedan crosses the intersection the police officer is sitting at. The man is dropping of his 4 year old son at the daycare around the corner before starting his day as an Asst. Manager at Target.
Now ask yourself the following questions.
1. What should the police officer do?
2. How would you respond if you were the man headed to work?
3. How many different ways can this interaction go depending on either the young mans or the police officers actions?
1. He should do his job.
Preferably without brutalizing or killing anyone.
2. Like I got pulled over by a cop who may suspect I am someone else? Ummm, what is the alternative?
3. If the cop recognizes that there are more than one young fathers with blue cars and red shirts - that would help him do his job without screwing up the "interaction."
Geez, I hope that's not too big a stretch to ask of our police force that I'm told would not benefit from any improvement whatsoever in vetting or training.
1. Suspect is to be considered armed and dangerous. How should he approach the vehicle? Andy Griffith or gun drawn?
2. Did you just get pulled over for driving while black or did you just get pulled over for fitting the description of someone who committed a crime?
3. If the young man being pulled over realized there may be a reasonable explanation for him being pulled over besides him being black it might alter the interaction.
There is potential for both parties in this scenario to make this go sideways. You appear to focus on only one side. I posed the question so that perhaps we could all take a step back and consider the other side.