It's kind of funny how trusting people are of the President, who otherwise don't trust the government at all.
Shouldn’t a 75 year old man be “adult” enough to listen to basic instructions? Police clearing the street. Yeah, let’s hold our ground. Seriously, what else to you expect.
A good portion of this “brutality” BS Wouldn’t be an issue if people just listened to an officer and complied to sort out whatever it is or accept getting arrested for whatever may have been done.
Sadly, I’m informed I’m wrong because of rare cases of true “bad cops”. For crying out loud, “COPS” and “Live PD” have been pulled off air. Just wow!
(06-10-2020, 04:06 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (06-10-2020, 03:30 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]"He was pushed"
"He wasn't pushed"
If you don't understand the difference between one word and the exact same word, then I'm afraid I can't help you. Please don't vote.
Classic Leftist to cut the message to change the meaning. You created a shining example of a procedure used by "fake news."
(06-10-2020, 03:43 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Here's the point furiously flying way over your head:
They shouldn't have [BLEEP] pushed him ANYWHERE in the first place.
Holy hell. Can you not see or imagine a more effective and efficient (much less non-violent) way of removing that man from the area than shoving him further into the direct path of multiple policemen?
It was completely unnecessary to shove him in the first place. Please stop skipping this point.
Use your brain.
I agree. They shouldn't have pushed him. They should have known he was a clumsy oaf who couldn't keep his balance and also didn't know how to fall.
So in your eyes - their
only option in that scenario was to shove the old man standing in front of them?
You can't think of
any other action they could have taken that may have prevented them facing felony assault charges?
(06-10-2020, 04:21 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]Shouldn’t a 75 year old man be “adult” enough to listen to basic instructions? Police clearing the street. Yeah, let’s hold our ground. Seriously, what else to you expect.
A good portion of this “brutality” BS Wouldn’t be an issue if people just listened to an officer and complied to sort out whatever it is or accept getting arrested for whatever may have been done.
Sadly, I’m informed I’m wrong because of rare cases of true “bad cops”. For crying out loud, “COPS” and “Live PD” have been pulled off air. Just wow!
It's unfortunately not BS.
41 NYPD cops are being prosecuted for assault right now by state prosecutors for their actions during these recent protests alone. You don't think that number is too high?
What would be the acceptable number?
What's the acceptable number of deaths due to improper action by police?
What if we could make that number smaller by requiring cops to have more hours of training than we do a barber?
Do you know how many cops in America have been formally charged with domestic assault?
(hint: it's a high number) Yet 28% of those formally charged with abusing a family member are still policing our streets.
It's not BS. There are too many incidents of this crap and it's VERY clear the public has had enough of it.
Reform will be coming to many of our police departments soon and there is zero reason to lament any attempt to improve the vetting and training of the brave men and women we are intended to trust behind that badge.
If you think vetting and training are fine right now, you shouldn't have a problem with making those things even better.
If it's "just a few bad apples" then great. We'll have fewer [BLEEP] bad apples soon. They never should have been allowed to wear the badge in the first place, and we can choose and train their replacements more carefully.
(06-10-2020, 01:40 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (06-10-2020, 12:32 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Why should a narrative go unchallenged? Who else is going to publicly broadcast a lie that was told? You think any news agency is going to retract it? I don't know what's true or not. I'm waiting for the evidence, but your reasoning is so terrible.
If there is evidence that comes out that shows this dude faked it for a photo op, is anyone that condemned the police or Trump going to change their tune? It's just going to be "reasoned" away like the statement above.
There are always stragglers, but, yes, some people will change their tune if new and surprising evidence comes out.
Your reasoning is terrible because you are hedging based on behavior you imagine from people you imagine as your enemies. I mean, it's not reasoning so much as storytelling for you, isn't it? And why would you care if these enemies admit their folly? "I will persist in folly because my enemies also persist." Listen to youself!
Gotta do better than "he put his phone up to the cops' waistband." Because, come on. Grab hand, take phone, make arrest. No shove. Right?
Reread what I typed. I said I don't know what is true, either way. If evidence comes out (like Jack City suggests) that this dude was seriously hurt. It's an asinine tweet from the President. If evidence comes out that this was a publicity stunt, it's not an asinine tweet from the President. If the latter happens, and no one changes the narrative, that's on them. I personally want to assume that the President has more information than the same internet meme I saw floating around. That said, I also know there's a chance he saw the same things I did and just tweeted about it, which is irresponsible. Maybe the truth is in the middle and it was a publicity stunt gone wrong. The more misinformation that goes around, the less people are going to trust institutions. So, they follow a narrative. And let's be real, there is a lot of misinformation going around. I am not sure it's possible to even follow the evidence anymore.
I'd also like to address the seemingly constant issue of conflating riots and protests, but arguing about this stuff is like whack-a-mole.
Their goal is to clear the streets. By forming a line and walking down at the same time, you can force people in a direction. You can't do this if you are stopping to arrest everyone that is not complying. They probably need to make exceptions for the elderly and the disabled, but hindsight is 20/20. This argument is largely decided on world view. Those who tend to favor our system come down on the side of compliance, and those who are anti-establishment come down on the side of the protesters/provocateurs. The funny thing is I'm not even sure you can use this across the board. It's specifically tied to political worldview for most.
There are many on this board (from both sides) who would have been arguing the exact opposite if this happened a few weeks ago during the coronavirus protests. I know I wouldn't like it if I saw an old man shoved to the ground because the government was enforcing lockdown measures.
The way I see it, any person confronted by police in riot gear advancing and giving orders to clear the area that advances towards the police officers should face the consequences of their actions.
(06-10-2020, 06:25 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]The way I see it, any person confronted by police in riot gear advancing and giving orders to clear the area that advances towards the police officers should face the consequences of their actions.
What if they are disabled
(06-10-2020, 06:25 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]The way I see it, any person confronted by police in riot gear advancing and giving orders to clear the area that advances towards the police officers should face the consequences of their actions.
What would you have done in the shoes of the officer who pushed a 75-year-old man backwards and sidestepped him as his head made a lovely cracking sound?
Jeez, I swear, some of you people going after the old man (not you, jiblet) must not have seen the video. You guys know he's white, right?
(06-10-2020, 06:25 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]The way I see it, any person confronted by police in riot gear advancing and giving orders to clear the area that advances towards the police officers should face the consequences of their actions.
And likewise, if the police officers' response is unwarranted, the police should face the consequences of their actions. Goose and gander and all.
(06-10-2020, 07:32 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (06-10-2020, 06:45 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]What would you have done in the shoes of the officer who pushed a 75-year-old man backwards and sidestepped him as his head made a lovely cracking sound?
Jeez, I swear, some of you people going after the old man (not you, jiblet) must not have seen the video. You guys know he's white, right?
He sidestepped him because there was a police medic right behind the line, and his duty was to keep the line intact. The line cop was not equipped with medical equipment, so he left that to the one who was.
I guess you saw the video edited by the Marxist press.
Actually, I did see the video with medics coming in. Good them. Glad they were right there. Too bad their job is made harder by pigs (yep, a cop that shoves a man backwards and cracks his skull is a pig).
(06-10-2020, 04:35 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (06-10-2020, 04:21 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]Shouldn’t a 75 year old man be “adult” enough to listen to basic instructions? Police clearing the street. Yeah, let’s hold our ground. Seriously, what else to you expect.
A good portion of this “brutality” BS Wouldn’t be an issue if people just listened to an officer and complied to sort out whatever it is or accept getting arrested for whatever may have been done.
Sadly, I’m informed I’m wrong because of rare cases of true “bad cops”. For crying out loud, “COPS” and “Live PD” have been pulled off air. Just wow!
It's unfortunately not BS.
41 NYPD cops are being prosecuted for assault right now by state prosecutors for their actions during these recent protests alone. You don't think that number is too high?
What would be the acceptable number?
What's the acceptable number of deaths due to improper action by police?
What if we could make that number smaller by requiring cops to have more hours of training than we do a barber?
Do you know how many cops in America have been formally charged with domestic assault?
(hint: it's a high number) Yet 28% of those formally charged with abusing a family member are still policing our streets.
It's not BS. There are too many incidents of this crap and it's VERY clear the public has had enough of it.
Reform will be coming to many of our police departments soon and there is zero reason to lament any attempt to improve the vetting and training of the brave men and women we are intended to trust behind that badge.
If you think vetting and training are fine right now, you shouldn't have a problem with making those things even better.
If it's "just a few bad apples" then great. We'll have fewer [BLEEP] bad apples soon. They never should have been allowed to wear the badge in the first place, and we can choose and train their replacements more carefully.
41 cops under investigation is too many. I’ll agree with you there. But it also makes up for less than 1% of the force. I truly hate to say this, but [BLEEP] happens. Sad but true (great song btw). But the same goes for 100% of every other occupation out there. And let’s not pretend the bad apples are only white people. They’re out there regardless of race. You’re gonna have [BLEEP] heads in every field. Statistics will be statistics. No matter how many bad apples you eliminate there will still be some out there. What percentage is acceptable? Idk. It’s always going to be there no matter what vetting you do.
In that regard, where do we stop? Do we take away every single scholarship and grant so every American teen can have the same opportunity? Do we take away more stuff? So it’s all even keel? But something tells me the results will be well, the same.
I took 30 days away from this site along with media and come back to find a [BLEEP] ton of crap. It makes me want to take another 90-365 days of seeing the news. Add this to the economy and Corona and a religious man would be thinking they’ll be seeing their maker soon. I’m ready to back off again to live in peace and not get pissed at the headlines. But it doesn’t make it go away. But from what I was able to catch up on, I’m left to think “careful what you wish for”. I’m seeing the aftermath and numerous people fighting for racial inequality, freedom of speech and justice while the other half is getting canned for the free speech they said years ago, police are apparently all bad and should be abolished, history should be replaced and now as a white man I now have a dream that one day my little white daughter can grow up in a peaceful nation. One that can see another human as they are. I give two [BLEEP] about skin color. But I’ll be damned if I’m gonna feel bad for who I am. What I’ve earned and worked for. Sure, say that isn’t what’s it about. I can only speculate of what some of the protesters have been looking for. It doesn’t add up. And I say “careful what you wish for”. You want to defund LE and such. Let’s See who the winners of that are. Race war? Is that what’s trying to happen? Idk. I hope I’m wrong. I really do
(06-10-2020, 06:25 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]The way I see it, any person confronted by police in riot gear advancing and giving orders to clear the area that advances towards the police officers should face the consequences of their actions.
Granny with dementia be damned. The usual cop answer, "don't look at me cross-eyed, I am the law, and I will force you to bow to my authority" True fashion that cops can't operate with different people under different circumstances. You just confirmed such, but we all knew that ... That's what this is all about.
(06-10-2020, 09:11 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (06-10-2020, 08:10 PM)Sammy Wrote: [ -> ]Granny with dementia be damned. The usual cop answer, "don't look at me cross-eyed, I am the law, and I will force you to bow to my authority" True fashion that cops can't operate with different people under different circumstances. You just confirmed such, but we all knew that ... That's what this is all about.
I don't think it was Joe Biden who refused to obey the curfew.
.gif "Laughing")
or
? Or cry? Can't chose. But I know it's true.
Interesting those who always want more protection of their 'freedoms' always stick up for oppressive police actions...