Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Here is a breakdown of Gardner's play from this week from Brian Baldinger:

https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1305912638526959618

(09-15-2020, 09:56 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-15-2020, 06:02 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Yards per attempt is a much better yardstick of success than yards per completion. 

They are both useful, but YPA definitely lies when 95% of the A's result in a C.

So what  you're saying is, 10-20 for 173 is better than 19-20 for 173 because the yards per completion would have been higher?  

I say no.  What counts is how many yards you got and how many attempts it took you to get those yards.  That's why the most widely accepted yardstick for a passer is yards per attempt. Not yards per completion.

Here's an article on the subject:  

https://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...r-attempt/

“To put it most simply, passing yards per attempt is the single most important indicator of success in all of football. The short version is this:

* Teams that win the passing YPA battle almost always win the game.
* Teams that lose the passing YPA battle almost always lose the game.
* The winningest teams in history are typically the teams with the best passing YPA average.
* The winningest quarterbacks in history are typically the quarterbacks with the best passing YPA average.”

(09-15-2020, 03:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-15-2020, 09:56 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]They are both useful, but YPA definitely lies when 95% of the A's result in a C.

So what  you're saying is, 10-20 for 173 is better than 19-20 for 173 because the yards per completion would have been higher?  

I say no.  What counts is how many yards you got and how many attempts it took you to get those yards.  That's why the most widely accepted yardstick for a passer is yards per attempt. Not yards per completion.

I didn't say that. I just said that 95% is an outlier percentage that can skew the story that YPA is supposed to tell. The only time 173 yards on 20 attempts is a respectable YPA is when you complete ~95% of your passes, and obviously you can't count on that very often.

(09-15-2020, 04:13 PM)I’ll Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-15-2020, 03:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So what  you're saying is, 10-20 for 173 is better than 19-20 for 173 because the yards per completion would have been higher?  

I say no.  What counts is how many yards you got and how many attempts it took you to get those yards.  That's why the most widely accepted yardstick for a passer is yards per attempt. Not yards per completion.

I didn't say that. I just said that 95% is an outlier percentage that can skew the story that YPA is supposed to tell. The only time 173 yards on 20 attempts is a respectable YPA is when you complete ~95% of your passes, and obviously you can't count on that very often.

YPA is an efficiency measure that takes into account all levels of the field. His YPA tells the story correctly, he was super accurate short and hence the good YPA.  If he was super accurate deep he’d have a phenomenal YPA.

Not really sure what your point is here.

(09-15-2020, 12:08 PM)The Eleventh Doctor Wrote: [ -> ]Let's wait until the end of the season to name him the second coming of Brady or not good enough to be a franchise QB.  I want to see him with a second season under his belt before I judge anything.  That said, if he keeps this up, then he puts to rest the idea of Jacksonville being in the market for a QB.  His performance was truly impressive.

It's always the same. A player makes a nice play or has a good game and they wanna crown him right away.

I do believe Minshew is the answer but we gotta see more out of him (in like more games being good, proving he is the answer).
Garrard had 1 good season they gave him a big contract and he was mediocre.
Everyone was excited about Bortles after his second year and what happened?

Just let the guy play. He will give us answers during the season.

(09-15-2020, 05:19 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-15-2020, 04:13 PM)I’ll Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't say that. I just said that 95% is an outlier percentage that can skew the story that YPA is supposed to tell. The only time 173 yards on 20 attempts is a respectable YPA is when you complete ~95% of your passes, and obviously you can't count on that very often.

YPA is an efficiency measure that takes into account all levels of the field. His YPA tells the story correctly, he was super accurate short and hence the good YPA.  If he was super accurate deep he’d have a phenomenal YPA.

Not really sure what your point is here.

Same point as he always makes. No jaguars are good and they absolutely must not be celebrated in any fashion.

(09-15-2020, 04:13 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-15-2020, 03:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So what  you're saying is, 10-20 for 173 is better than 19-20 for 173 because the yards per completion would have been higher?  

I say no.  What counts is how many yards you got and how many attempts it took you to get those yards.  That's why the most widely accepted yardstick for a passer is yards per attempt. Not yards per completion.

I didn't say that. I just said that 95% is an outlier percentage that can skew the story that YPA is supposed to tell. The only time 173 yards on 20 attempts is a respectable YPA is when you complete ~95% of your passes, and obviously you can't count on that very often.

So what is more important.  A stat (YPA) or the final outcome (a win)?

(09-15-2020, 06:04 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-15-2020, 04:13 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't say that. I just said that 95% is an outlier percentage that can skew the story that YPA is supposed to tell. The only time 173 yards on 20 attempts is a respectable YPA is when you complete ~95% of your passes, and obviously you can't count on that very often.

So what is more important.  A stat (YPA) or the final outcome (a win)?

Why are you trying to change the subject?

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(09-15-2020, 05:42 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-15-2020, 05:19 PM)NoShoes Wrote: [ -> ]YPA is an efficiency measure that takes into account all levels of the field. His YPA tells the story correctly, he was super accurate short and hence the good YPA.  If he was super accurate deep he’d have a phenomenal YPA.

Not really sure what your point is here.

Same point as he always makes. No jaguars are good and they absolutely must not be celebrated in any fashion.

I said like 4 times that Minshew did a very good job, read better.

(09-15-2020, 07:54 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-15-2020, 06:04 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]So what is more important.  A stat (YPA) or the final outcome (a win)?

Why are you trying to change the subject?

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(09-15-2020, 05:42 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]Same point as he always makes. No jaguars are good and they absolutely must not be celebrated in any fashion.

I said like 4 times that Minshew did a very good job, read better.

You said that 4 times? Care to reference the post numbers?

(09-15-2020, 07:59 PM)Senor Fantastico Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-15-2020, 07:54 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Why are you trying to change the subject?

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I said like 4 times that Minshew did a very good job, read better.

You said that 4 times? Care to reference the post numbers?

Well, there's that one post where he said Minshew did a good job at taking what he was given by soft coverage and then "like" those zero other anythings.

Upper, hey bro screw the stats. Bortles threw 38TDs and 4500 and he ended up being terrible.

Minshew has a team full of rookies and carved up the defense and won the game. He’s the real deal, and he’s a stud muffin.

Once you watch the video by Baldy, you realize how awesome this performance was. The timing, the look offs, the anticipation. I have not seen a jags QB like this before. Minshew makes it look easy, but it’s not.

(09-13-2020, 05:19 PM)MikePete54 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/CBSSports/status/130...1261796352

I had no idea Fornette was cancer. But hey we are cancer-free! GO JAGS F THE TACKS.

(09-15-2020, 09:03 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Once you watch the video by Baldy, you realize how awesome this performance was. The timing, the look offs, the anticipation. I have not seen a jags QB like this before. Minshew makes it look easy, but it’s not.

He 100% passes the eye test. The problem is he's not a "WOW" player like Mahomes or Lamar, so people are not as impressed or ready to call him "the man". All indications point to him being a top 10 QB in this league.

I said it last year. #15 is a broke man's russle Wilson. (I know it's a stretch) but hey. Gut feeling.

(09-16-2020, 02:06 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]I said it last year. #15 is a broke man's russle Wilson. (I know it's a stretch) but hey. Gut feeling.

Probably not but who knows where his ceiling is? What he's done is encouraging and he has a finesse to his game that makes it easy to forget he's only started his 13th NFL game. I don't remember what Wilson was like after 13 games but pretty sure he wasn't what he is now.

(09-16-2020, 06:47 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2020, 02:06 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]I said it last year. #15 is a broke man's russle Wilson. (I know it's a stretch) but hey. Gut feeling.

Probably not but who knows where his ceiling is? What he's done is encouraging and he has a finesse to his game that makes it easy to forget he's only started his 13th NFL game. I don't remember what Wilson was like after 13 games but pretty sure he wasn't what he is now.

2012 - 64%  26tds 10 ints  100.0 rating

Wilson was good from Day 1 of his first camp and beat out the just signed and very expensive Matt Flynn for the job. The big difference is Russell's cannon right arm.

So, yeah, GM15 as a poor man's Wilson isn't really that far off. Wilson was and is better, but we'll see what the Stache does this year and hope for the same results.

(09-16-2020, 09:15 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2020, 06:47 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]Probably not but who knows where his ceiling is? What he's done is encouraging and he has a finesse to his game that makes it easy to forget he's only started his 13th NFL game. I don't remember what Wilson was like after 13 games but pretty sure he wasn't what he is now.

2012 - 64%  26tds 10 ints  100.0 rating

Wilson was good from Day 1 of his first camp and beat out the just signed and very expensive Matt Flynn for the job. The big difference is Russell's cannon right arm.

So, yeah, GM15 as a poor man's Wilson isn't really that far off. Wilson was and is better, but we'll see what the Stache does this year and hope for the same results.

And that's why I don't see Kyler Murray doing well. He's just not that smart. Especially compared to Russell Wilson.

The Shew is very smart and is a cerebral QB with the ability to read the defense, look off defenders and pump fake them into bad positions.

(09-16-2020, 10:01 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2020, 09:15 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]2012 - 64%  26tds 10 ints  100.0 rating

Wilson was good from Day 1 of his first camp and beat out the just signed and very expensive Matt Flynn for the job. The big difference is Russell's cannon right arm.

So, yeah, GM15 as a poor man's Wilson isn't really that far off. Wilson was and is better, but we'll see what the Stache does this year and hope for the same results.

And that's why I don't see Kyler Murray doing well. He's just not that smart. Especially compared to Russell Wilson.

The Shew is very smart and is a cerebral QB with the ability to read the defense, look off defenders and pump fake them into bad positions.

Do you have evidence for saying Kyler is “just not that smart”? 

Or are you just making a baseless statement with no actual facts to back it up?

I base it off my own opinion after listening to him speak about the game and never hearing his coaches rave about his understanding of concepts. Plus the extremely simple offense that doesn't really require anything beyond throw if its open, run if it's not.

It's an opinion. Not trying to pass it off as fact.

Ya know.. opinions.. that thing we are all allowed to have. I've just never watched Kyler and thought, "wow". Whereas with Russell Wilson, even when he was in College, it was "wow, this guy gets the game"