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these petitions are not well though out

Quote:Well said Americus.

Thank you. It frustrates me to no end how much people want to be a victim in this country. The United States of America was not founded by a bunch of pansies, yet that's where we find ourselves just 240 years later. I could really get into this but I have a headache and it's not worth it because me saying it here won't do any good anyway.

 

I will say I believe many people on this board have never broadened their horizons and have no clue what it is they're actually complaining about because they've never lived life outside of their box or comfort zone. Heck, my husband was born and raised in the county we now live, has only lived in two homes in his 45 years of life, and never flew on a plane or went further west than Alabama until we married and went to Colorado (my home state) for our honeymoon. I lived in three states before the age of 5 and many more since then. He had a very limited worldview when we got married, now 4.5 years later he's learned quite a bit from me about how what he thinks is life is not how everyone lives, and I don't just mean geographically. Limited thinking due to sheltered lives is a very frustrating and dangerous thing. It makes you incapable of seeing other's POV. Life is not black and white. There is a lot of gray. There are a lot of people who do not understand that at all.

 

Sorry to go off track from the subject posted. 

Quote:TJBender has your answer. Also, in Germany the concentration camps where unspeakable horrors were committed upon innocent people are all still standing. Why? Because they want future generations to know what happened and they be a tangible reminder of what should never, ever happen again. I visited Dachau when I lived over there and it's a somber place to be as well as a powerful sight to behold. When you drive by it the high walls are still there with the razor wire and you walk through the same gate with the sign reading, "Arbeit macht frei". Google present day images of it. It's been 15 years since I was there and I remember it as if were yesterday. And that's not the history of my country.

 

That is why destroying monuments of the past, changing names of cities, schools, etc., can be dangerous. People need to stop looking at flags, monuments and other historical stuff as symbols of oppression and hate (or even pride) and look at them as what should never be allowed to happen in this country again. 

Bravo.

Quote:TJBender has your answer. Also, in Germany the concentration camps where unspeakable horrors were committed upon innocent people are all still standing. Why? Because they want future generations to know what happened and they be a tangible reminder of what should never, ever happen again. I visited Dachau when I lived over there and it's a somber place to be as well as a powerful sight to behold. When you drive by it the high walls are still there with the razor wire and you walk through the same gate with the sign reading, "Arbeit macht frei". Google present day images of it. It's been 15 years since I was there and I remember it as if were yesterday. And that's not the history of my country.

 

That is why destroying monuments of the past, changing names of cities, schools, etc., can be dangerous. People need to stop looking at flags, monuments and other historical stuff as symbols of oppression and hate (or even pride) and look at them as what should never be allowed to happen in this country again. 

 

I would be OK with Andrew Jackson coming back, destroying the central bank, and throwing epic cheese parties in the White House.

Black lives matter only when a white person does the killing. 100 percent fact.

If anyone should tear down the Jackson monument, it should be Native Americans. Jackson had more of them murdered than any other person. I've always considered the man a war criminal. He was the first to use biological warfare when he sent Native Americans on "The Trail of Tears", knowingly giving them blankets infected with smallpox. The man was no better than Hitler. With that said, I have no idea what this has to do with the Black Lives Matter movement.

Quote:If anyone should tear down the Jackson monument, it should be Native Americans. Jackson had more of them murdered than any other person. I've always considered the man a war criminal. He was the first to use biological warfare when he sent Native Americans on "The Trail of Tears", knowingly giving them blankets infected with smallpox. The man was no better than Hitler. With that said, I have no idea what this has to do with the Black Lives Matter movement.

 

Whoa what? Andrew Jackson was nothing even close to being Hitler. First of all, your accusation that Andrew Jackson sent small-pox infected blankets is pure, unadulterated fabrication. Second, the Trail of Tears, while inhumane for modern era, was tame compared to what other western nations were doing to indigenous populations at the same time. I can understand peoples dislike of Andrew Jackson, but to compare him to Hitler is just ignorant of historical reality.

Quote:Whoa what? Andrew Jackson was nothing even close to being Hitler. First of all, your accusation that Andrew Jackson sent small-pox infected blankets is pure, unadulterated fabrication. Second, the Trail of Tears, while inhumane for modern era, was tame compared to what other western nations were doing to indigenous populations at the same time. I can understand peoples dislike of Andrew Jackson, but to compare him to Hitler is just ignorant of historical reality.

 

 

Learn some history. The small pox thing is fact. I've learned this throughout high school and college. It's part of how we conquered the Native Americans and herded them like cattle onto reservations. Hitler imprisoned Jews in masses and put them in concentration camps and murdered them in gas chambers. Jackson had masses of Native Americans slaughtered and the ones he captured, he had relocated onto reservations in the middle of nowhere. He forced them to walk for many, many miles in ungodly harsh conditions with little food or water and small pox infected blankets to try and kill off the majority of them. He was just as bad as Hitler, but because he was American, we seem to give him a pass. 

Quote:Learn some history. The small pox thing is fact. I've learned this throughout high school and college. It's part of how we conquered the Native Americans and herded them like cattle onto reservations. Hitler imprisoned Jews in masses and put them in concentration camps and murdered them in gas chambers. Jackson had masses of Native Americans slaughtered and the ones he captured, he had relocated onto reservations in the middle of nowhere. He forced them to walk for many, many miles in ungodly harsh conditions with little food or water and small pox infected blankets to try and kill off the majority of them. He was just as bad as Hitler, but because he was American, we seem to give him a pass. 

 

It is sort of depressing that this is the kind of history that is taught in modern education. Your views on Andrew Jackson are extremely ignorant and you would do well to educate yourself. I suggest reading the biography Andrew Jackson by H.W. Brands. It is very insightful into Andrew Jackson's life and presidency while also covering the tough decisions he made regarding the Native American's and their relationship with American citizens.

Quote:It is sort of depressing that this is the kind of history that is taught in modern education. Your views on Andrew Jackson are extremely ignorant and you would do well to educate yourself. I suggest reading the biography Andrew Jackson by H.W. Brands. It is very insightful into Andrew Jackson's life and presidency while also covering the tough decisions he made regarding the Native American's and their relationship with American citizens.

 

 

No thanks. I'll stick to what I know, not some propaganda that tries to humanize that monster. If you want to keep your head in the sand and choose to ignore the historical facts, I can't help you. 

Quote:It is sort of depressing that this is the kind of history that is taught in modern education. Your views on Andrew Jackson are extremely ignorant and you would do well to educate yourself. I suggest reading the biography Andrew Jackson by H.W. Brands. It is very insightful into Andrew Jackson's life and presidency while also covering the tough decisions he made regarding the Native American's and their relationship with American citizens.

I learned history in the late 70's and early 80's in Ohio.  The treatment of indigenous people by Andrew Jackson is repugnant regardless of which decade you judge him by.  

Quote:I would be OK with Andrew Jackson coming back, destroying the central bank, and throwing epic cheese parties in the White House.

For a genocidal racist, the man sure did know how to have a good time.

BLM is a failed ideology for two reasons:

 

1 - It is based on skin color.  But we can't change our skin color.  So nothing will change.

 

2 - It is based on hate.  Hate is like drinking poison and expecting the OTHER GUY to die. 

Quote:BLM is a failed ideology for two reasons:

 

1 - It is based on skin color.  But we can't change our skin color.  So nothing will change.

 

2 - It is based on hate.  Hate is like drinking poison and expecting the OTHER GUY to die.

Inconceivable!

Quote:It is sort of depressing that this is the kind of history that is taught in modern education. Your views on Andrew Jackson are extremely ignorant and you would do well to educate yourself. I suggest reading the biography Andrew Jackson by H.W. Brands. It is very insightful into Andrew Jackson's life and presidency while also covering the tough decisions he made regarding the Native American's and their relationship with American citizens.

are you trying to say it is possible that Andrew Jackson was a complex man who was forced to make complex decisions in his lifetime and some of those key decisions can't be summed up in a simple two paragraph block in a high school text book?

 

Quote:No thanks. I'll stick to what I know, not some propaganda that tries to humanize that monster. If you want to keep your head in the sand and choose to ignore the historical facts, I can't help you. 

this is one of the reviews from amazon

 

"Andrew Jackson, one of the most unqualified US Presidents ever. I respect his military service, but the guy just wasn't cut out for the job. Brands has put together a solid bio in Andrew Jackson: His Life and Times. Though it did nothing to dissuade my low opinion of his political prowess, I would still recommend this as a good read, especially if you're interested in Jackson."

 

believe it or not, it is good for biographers to spell out all historical facts and try not to trick you into thinking things.  If Biographers do not do this people will stop reading them because they are inaccurate and find a better writer to quench their thirst for historical knowledge.


But like you said you have some education on the subject so whats the need to have any more.

Quote:Yeah Hurricane I get that.  But you can't just go around destroying stuff that doesn't belong to you.

 

Agreed.  The guy was an aweful human being.  But you go through the proper channels to get things done.  Maybe start organizing to get the statue removed through the representative democratic process?  

Quote:It is sort of depressing that this is the kind of history that is taught in modern education. Your views on Andrew Jackson are extremely ignorant and you would do well to educate yourself. I suggest reading the biography Andrew Jackson by H.W. Brands. It is very insightful into Andrew Jackson's life and presidency while also covering the tough decisions he made regarding the Native American's and their relationship with American citizens.

 

His tough decisions?  Like genocide?  That's not really a tough decision unless you are an inhuman peice of human garbage that saw Native Americans as heathens.  The guy was a terrible human being.

 

You can put as much lipstick on that pig as you want, JW. Just change the core of who Jackson was and what he will always be remembered for.  

Do I think the statue should come down? Sure. But there's a proper way to do things.


I also think the Malcolm X statue in NYC should also come down for him and his racism.. Let's not cherry pick..

Why have statues of anyone then?  All humans are flawed.  All behaved in ways that future generations might find primitive or unseemly.  We celebrate war heroes because they killed a lot of people and won the battle or war. 

Quote:Do I think the statue should come down? Sure. But there's a proper way to do things.


I also think the Malcolm X statue in NYC should also come down for him and his racism.. Let's not cherry pick..

As long as we're not talking about taking down Rocky Balboa.