(12-23-2020, 01:28 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]On a side note, kill 2 birds with one stone and go ahead a build a new appropriate sized stadium in a good part of town that developers will embrace. The downtown experiment in Jacksonville will never work.
I disagree. From the shipyards to the Landing property from the river to Bay Street has huge potential. Run a boardwalk from one end to the other and you have a great venue for bars, restaurants and little shops much like Savanna but modern and with smooth walkways. Down the road run the skyway from the beaches and Mandarin and you have a revitalized downtown.
(12-23-2020, 01:52 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2020, 01:28 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]On a side note, kill 2 birds with one stone and go ahead a build a new appropriate sized stadium in a good part of town that developers will embrace. The downtown experiment in Jacksonville will never work.
I disagree. From the shipyards to the Landing property from the river to Bay Street has huge potential. Run a boardwalk from one end to the other and you have a great venue for bars, restaurants and little shops much like Savanna but modern and with smooth walkways. Down the road run the skyway from the beaches and Mandarin and you have a revitalized downtown.
I don't disagree with the potential. That has always been there. The vision is the issue. Downtown has a ton of logistical issues that always seem to be ignored but are crucial in regular people adopting downtown as a place they actually want to go. I mean, Lot J is a start, but that isnt enough by a long shot.
(12-23-2020, 01:57 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2020, 01:52 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree. From the shipyards to the Landing property from the river to Bay Street has huge potential. Run a boardwalk from one end to the other and you have a great venue for bars, restaurants and little shops much like Savanna but modern and with smooth walkways. Down the road run the skyway from the beaches and Mandarin and you have a revitalized downtown.
I don't disagree with the potential. That has always been there. The vision is the issue. Downtown has a ton of logistical issues that always seem to be ignored but are crucial in regular people adopting downtown as a place they actually want to go. I mean, Lot J is a start, but that isnt enough by a long shot.
But the important thing is to start.
The Jaguars don't immediately go from 1-15 team to Suer Bowl champion just by drafting Trevor Lawrence. The team will have to add offensive linemen, more receivers/TE, and help on all three levels of the defense, the right GM, and coach, etc. But that doesn't mean you don't draft Lawrence because he alone is not the sole answer.
(12-23-2020, 02:15 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2020, 01:57 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't disagree with the potential. That has always been there. The vision is the issue. Downtown has a ton of logistical issues that always seem to be ignored but are crucial in regular people adopting downtown as a place they actually want to go. I mean, Lot J is a start, but that isnt enough by a long shot.
But the important thing is to start.
The Jaguars don't immediately go from 1-15 team to Suer Bowl champion just by drafting Trevor Lawrence. The team will have to add offensive linemen, more receivers/TE, and help on all three levels of the defense, the right GM, and coach, etc. But that doesn't mean you don't draft Lawrence because he alone is not the sole answer.
As a 40 year Jacksonville resident who worked downtown for 12 years, seriously explored living in Springfield, and having parents who lived in a loft on Adams Street for 10 years, I am a natural skeptic of all things downtown growth.
I am in the believe it when I see it crowd. Prove me wrong Jax!
(12-23-2020, 02:20 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2020, 02:15 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]But the important thing is to start.
The Jaguars don't immediately go from 1-15 team to Suer Bowl champion just by drafting Trevor Lawrence. The team will have to add offensive linemen, more receivers/TE, and help on all three levels of the defense, the right GM, and coach, etc. But that doesn't mean you don't draft Lawrence because he alone is not the sole answer.
As a 40 year Jacksonville resident who worked downtown for 12 years, seriously explored living in Springfield, and having parents who lived in a loft on Adams Street for 10 years, I am a natural skeptic of all things downtown growth.
I am in the believe it when I see it crowd. Prove me wrong Jax!
The ultimate approval of the Jaguars stadium proposal to get Weaver on board was a good thing. Without it...with the half [BLEEP] renovation of the Gator bowl the then City Council was originally content with, we'd have no Jaguars, and probably no Florida-Georgia game.
(12-23-2020, 02:20 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2020, 02:15 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]But the important thing is to start.
The Jaguars don't immediately go from 1-15 team to Suer Bowl champion just by drafting Trevor Lawrence. The team will have to add offensive linemen, more receivers/TE, and help on all three levels of the defense, the right GM, and coach, etc. But that doesn't mean you don't draft Lawrence because he alone is not the sole answer.
As a 40 year Jacksonville resident who worked downtown for 12 years, seriously explored living in Springfield, and having parents who lived in a loft on Adams Street for 10 years, I am a natural skeptic of all things downtown growth.
I am in the believe it when I see it crowd. Prove me wrong Jax!
+1000.
Two events seriously hindered downtown as a desirable place to live: the consolidation of Jax into a county wide municipality in 1968, and the decision to not extend the Skyway to the suburbs in the 90's. Both could have allowed for more downtown growth than has occurred, though the skyway extension was and still is a huge infrastructure nightmare.
(12-23-2020, 01:42 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]With Trevor Lawerence coming, no need for 1 or 2 London Games. All 8 in Jacksonville cus the place gonna be packed and rocking. We don't need those them anymore , be wearing jersey's of other teams.
Until we have PSLs and a waiting list, I can see Shad keeping the London game(s) for the short term. Doesn't mean we can't do a home game and a road game in succession there, and have a stint to keep the notion going.
In every other thread, nothing but complaints over the fact that Duval is blown off either because of no star power or no out-of-town interest. If we are a winner, and London treats the franchise as their primary rooting interest, that can only help.
If (and mind you it is still a humongous if) this turns around and we start winning, you still want demand for your game attendance.
(12-23-2020, 03:58 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2020, 01:42 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]With Trevor Lawerence coming, no need for 1 or 2 London Games. All 8 in Jacksonville cus the place gonna be packed and rocking. We don't need those them anymore , be wearing jersey's of other teams.
Until we have PSLs and a waiting list, I can see Shad keeping the London game(s) for the short term. Doesn't mean we can't do a home game and a road game in succession there, and have a stint to keep the notion going.
In every other thread, nothing but complaints over the fact that Duval is blown off either because of no star power or no out-of-town interest. If we are a winner, and London treats the franchise as their primary rooting interest, that can only help.
If (and mind you it is still a humongous if) this turns around and we start winning, you still want demand for your game attendance.
You don't just switch to PSLs.
I think with the Trevor hype the Jags could implement a small PSL. Tell the team they can charge $100 per win for PSLs. I think season tickets would still fly off the shelf with a $100 PSL next year if we get Trevor, and then I don't think people would complain about one in the ~thousand buck range if the team was a perennial playoff contender and had one of the top 5 most exciting QBs leading the team. That would help the team get a lot of revenue and in the grand scheme of PSLs it would be on the low end.
(12-23-2020, 06:20 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I think with the Trevor hype the Jags could implement a small PSL. Tell the team they can charge $100 per win for PSLs. I think season tickets would still fly off the shelf with a $100 PSL next year if we get Trevor, and then I don't think people would complain about one in the ~thousand buck range if the team was a perennial playoff contender and had one of the top 5 most exciting QBs leading the team. That would help the team get a lot of revenue and in the grand scheme of PSLs it would be on the low end.
There is not a single NFL team that has just started charging PSLs. They pay for new facilities and in one case (the Bears) an upgraded facility.
And I know you're not from Jacksonville if you don't think people will mind paying PSLs.
PSL is a crime yo. NFL just using their greed and power to take advantage of you cus you cant live without football. Me just gonna stay home and watch Trevor greatness for free.
(12-23-2020, 06:26 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2020, 06:20 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I think with the Trevor hype the Jags could implement a small PSL. Tell the team they can charge $100 per win for PSLs. I think season tickets would still fly off the shelf with a $100 PSL next year if we get Trevor, and then I don't think people would complain about one in the ~thousand buck range if the team was a perennial playoff contender and had one of the top 5 most exciting QBs leading the team. That would help the team get a lot of revenue and in the grand scheme of PSLs it would be on the low end.
There is not a single NFL team that has just started charging PSLs. They pay for new facilities and in one case (the Bears) an upgraded facility.
And I know you're not from Jacksonville if you don't think people will mind paying PSLs.
Ok well it's time for a new stadium or major renovation anyway, usher that in with the Trevor era. Send Lot J to the trash where it belongs.
(12-23-2020, 01:52 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2020, 01:28 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]On a side note, kill 2 birds with one stone and go ahead a build a new appropriate sized stadium in a good part of town that developers will embrace. The downtown experiment in Jacksonville will never work.
I disagree. From the shipyards to the Landing property from the river to Bay Street has huge potential. Run a boardwalk from one end to the other and you have a great venue for bars, restaurants and little shops much like Savanna but modern and with smooth walkways. Down the road run the skyway from the beaches and Mandarin and you have a revitalized downtown.
It would be nice to build a boardwalk from the Hyatt Regency over to the stadium / metro park, but
How would the boardwalk cross the shipyard docks? At the roots, ignoring the docks (not as pretty), or at the tips, with new bridges (more expensive)?
How are you going to work around/through all the contaminated soil in that area?
Smarter and wealthier people than us, including Shad Khan, have thought of these these things before, and concluded they were too expensive to be worth doing.
That means there actually *isn't* potential.
As for the skyway, it could certainly run south and east, but there would be no point in elevating it out in the burbs, it wouldn't be a skyway anymore. It would be commuter rail. Which is good. But what commuter rail actually does, if you look at Miami and Orlando, is create a little string of high rise apartments near each stop, and soon those develop small nightlife districts. Usually the train doesn't even run at night. It doesn't tend to create downtown nightlife. What can create downtown nightlife is consistent police presence, liberal liquor licenses, quick turnaround on DOH permits, constant attention to keeping sidewalks and streets smooth, and most importantly, GOOD HOUSING AND FANCY HOTELS IN WALKING DISTANCE. Not projects. Old single family homes mixed with new highrises. A few of the folks you see out at night in Miami came by public transit. More drove in from the suburbs. But most live there, or are staying in a nearby hotel.
The area around the stadium is contaminated and industrial. It will never have these things. There are only a handful of locations in Jacksonville that have this kind of potential. San Marco and lavilla are the only two that are anywhere close to the downtown business district.
The river is our greatest asset. Let me spend 1 million dollars (if I had it) today to reap 5 million tomorrow. I don’t know what the cost would be to dig out 30 yards or so of contaminated soil and replacing it with clean dirt, a boardwalk, bars, shops and restaurants. What I do know is the area is not so contaminated that we can’t park there and tailgate. We are able to have concerts and a small public marina though.
(12-23-2020, 04:25 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2020, 03:58 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Until we have PSLs and a waiting list, I can see Shad keeping the London game(s) for the short term. Doesn't mean we can't do a home game and a road game in succession there, and have a stint to keep the notion going.
In every other thread, nothing but complaints over the fact that Duval is blown off either because of no star power or no out-of-town interest. If we are a winner, and London treats the franchise as their primary rooting interest, that can only help.
If (and mind you it is still a humongous if) this turns around and we start winning, you still want demand for your game attendance.
You don't just switch to PSLs.
Correct. my point was that until our stadium is consistently sold out and there is a waitlist/PSL involved, we're likely still going to deal with at least one home game overseas. If the team is built well and starts winning consistently, the tickets will sell. If the tickets sell, the next step for revenue stream is to attach PSL to the ticket.
I don't think that taking one guy in any darft is going to shut down the international games for Duval.
(12-23-2020, 06:37 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2020, 06:26 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]There is not a single NFL team that has just started charging PSLs. They pay for new facilities and in one case (the Bears) an upgraded facility.
And I know you're not from Jacksonville if you don't think people will mind paying PSLs.
Ok well it's time for a new stadium or major renovation anyway, usher that in with the Trevor era. Send Lot J to the trash where it belongs.
(12-28-2020, 09:38 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-23-2020, 04:25 PM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]You don't just switch to PSLs.
Correct. my point was that until our stadium is consistently sold out and there is a waitlist/PSL involved, we're likely still going to deal with at least one home game overseas. If the team is built well and starts winning consistently, the tickets will sell. If the tickets sell, the next step for revenue stream is to attach PSL to the ticket.
I don't think that taking one guy in any darft is going to shut down the international games for Duval.
You don't just switch to PSLs. PSLs, in all cases, have been used to fund a new stadium or in one case an upgraded stadium (Chicago). Nobody just changes to PSLs.