So you know things are getting dark when House Democrats House Republicans Trump and many of the Senators are all aligned to pay once again welfare payments to the public at large in the form of stimulus checks. These are not funds that require proof of hardship no request is to be made no qualifications other than income to be considered.
I get it many myself included are financial impacted by this pandemic and it’s reactionary effect on the economy. Personally I’m bringing home the least amount of income in the last 6 years it was tough. However I’m concerned with the lack of discussion from the GOP on where this goes. Your essentially giving the entire population welfare twice in 12 months and a significant amount both times. How does this not condition the public for UBI? How can you make the argument against UBI when both parties are unilaterally participating in this?
I’m seeing hardline conservatives bark at McConnell for not increasing payments from 600 to 2000 without conditions. I for one say thank you McConnell someone had to be a voice of reason here! Why not give everyone 10,000 dollars?
Democrats are flawlessly letting the GOP and Trump make the best argument for their dream objective UBI think about that
(01-03-2021, 06:02 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]So you know things are getting dark when House Democrats House Republicans Trump and many of the Senators are all aligned to pay once again welfare payments to the public at large in the form of stimulus checks. These are not funds that require proof of hardship no request is to be made no qualifications other than income to be considered.
I get it many myself included are financial impacted by this pandemic and it’s reactionary effect on the economy. Personally I’m bringing home the least amount of income in the last 6 years it was tough. However I’m concerned with the lack of discussion from the GOP on where this goes. Your essentially giving the entire population welfare twice in 12 months and a significant amount both times. How does this not condition the public for UBI? How can you make the argument against UBI when both parties are unilaterally participating in this?
I’m seeing hardline conservatives bark at McConnell for not increasing payments from 600 to 2000 without conditions. I for one say thank you McConnell someone had to be a voice of reason here! Why not give everyone 10,000 dollars?
Democrats are flawlessly letting the GOP and Trump make the best argument for their dream objective UBI think about that
$600 is not significant. We've had a massive shutdown on the economy and rampant unemployment, this is exactly the time for the government to do something, but our morons can't figure out how to do that without spending 5 times as much as necessary in order to feed their pork hungry benefactors.
So do you realize the argument isn’t weather or not mass welfare payment should be made but how much should be paid, that is the problem. Conservatives have lost all footing to object to UBI now we lost and we lead the charge.
$600 per person is significant just wait until it’s $600 per person every month and your fooling yourself if you don’t think that’s where this leads.
I agree we shouldn’t be spending the pork money either but they doesn’t change the reality we’re setting the table for UBI
(01-03-2021, 06:09 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 06:02 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]So you know things are getting dark when House Democrats House Republicans Trump and many of the Senators are all aligned to pay once again welfare payments to the public at large in the form of stimulus checks. These are not funds that require proof of hardship no request is to be made no qualifications other than income to be considered.
I get it many myself included are financial impacted by this pandemic and it’s reactionary effect on the economy. Personally I’m bringing home the least amount of income in the last 6 years it was tough. However I’m concerned with the lack of discussion from the GOP on where this goes. Your essentially giving the entire population welfare twice in 12 months and a significant amount both times. How does this not condition the public for UBI? How can you make the argument against UBI when both parties are unilaterally participating in this?
I’m seeing hardline conservatives bark at McConnell for not increasing payments from 600 to 2000 without conditions. I for one say thank you McConnell someone had to be a voice of reason here! Why not give everyone 10,000 dollars?
Democrats are flawlessly letting the GOP and Trump make the best argument for their dream objective UBI think about that
$600 is not significant. We've had a massive shutdown on the economy and rampant unemployment, this is exactly the time for the government to do something, but our morons can't figure out how to do that without spending 5 times as much as necessary in order to feed their pork hungry benefactors.
All anyone needs to know about the bill that was passed is “Pakistan Gender Studies”. This should have been a hard NO by every elected representative. Over 5000 pages and was it 3 hours to review it? Every bleeping son of a bleep that voted for this needs to be drug out of their DC office and face trial for High Crimes and Treason.
(01-03-2021, 06:02 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]So you know things are getting dark when House Democrats House Republicans Trump and many of the Senators are all aligned to pay once again welfare payments to the public at large in the form of stimulus checks. These are not funds that require proof of hardship no request is to be made no qualifications other than income to be considered.
I get it many myself included are financial impacted by this pandemic and it’s reactionary effect on the economy. Personally I’m bringing home the least amount of income in the last 6 years it was tough. However I’m concerned with the lack of discussion from the GOP on where this goes. Your essentially giving the entire population welfare twice in 12 months and a significant amount both times. How does this not condition the public for UBI? How can you make the argument against UBI when both parties are unilaterally participating in this?
I’m seeing hardline conservatives bark at McConnell for not increasing payments from 600 to 2000 without conditions. I for one say thank you McConnell someone had to be a voice of reason here! Why not give everyone 10,000 dollars?
Democrats are flawlessly letting the GOP and Trump make the best argument for their dream objective UBI think about that
Know what the horrible part is? It is solely based on income from your previous tax return. This makes zero sense.
(01-03-2021, 07:32 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 06:09 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]$600 is not significant. We've had a massive shutdown on the economy and rampant unemployment, this is exactly the time for the government to do something, but our morons can't figure out how to do that without spending 5 times as much as necessary in order to feed their pork hungry benefactors.
All anyone needs to know about the bill that was passed is “Pakistan Gender Studies”. This should have been a hard NO by every elected representative. Over 5000 pages and was it 3 hours to review it? Every bleeping son of a bleep that voted for this needs to be drug out of their DC office and face trial for High Crimes and Treason.
Treason?! You'll sprain yourself making stretches like that.
(01-03-2021, 07:32 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 06:09 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]$600 is not significant. We've had a massive shutdown on the economy and rampant unemployment, this is exactly the time for the government to do something, but our morons can't figure out how to do that without spending 5 times as much as necessary in order to feed their pork hungry benefactors.
All anyone needs to know about the bill that was passed is “Pakistan Gender Studies”. This should have been a hard NO by every elected representative. Over 5000 pages and was it 3 hours to review it? Every bleeping son of a bleep that voted for this needs to be drug out of their DC office and face trial for High Crimes and Treason.
There is only one way to fix this and that is at the ballot box. Unfortunately, stupid people are multiplying faster than smart, reasonable people.
(01-03-2021, 07:35 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 07:32 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]All anyone needs to know about the bill that was passed is “Pakistan Gender Studies”. This should have been a hard NO by every elected representative. Over 5000 pages and was it 3 hours to review it? Every bleeping son of a bleep that voted for this needs to be drug out of their DC office and face trial for High Crimes and Treason.
Treason?! You'll sprain yourself making stretches like that.
Every American should be pissed off and furious about what has transpired.
(01-03-2021, 07:35 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 07:32 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]All anyone needs to know about the bill that was passed is “Pakistan Gender Studies”. This should have been a hard NO by every elected representative. Over 5000 pages and was it 3 hours to review it? Every bleeping son of a bleep that voted for this needs to be drug out of their DC office and face trial for High Crimes and Treason.
Treason?! You'll sprain yourself making stretches like that.
Borrow money from foreign countries and send money back to them labeled as aid. Defend it all you want, our elected representatives no longer represent us nor the country. If that is not treasonous then nothing is.
(01-03-2021, 07:35 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 06:02 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]So you know things are getting dark when House Democrats House Republicans Trump and many of the Senators are all aligned to pay once again welfare payments to the public at large in the form of stimulus checks. These are not funds that require proof of hardship no request is to be made no qualifications other than income to be considered.
I get it many myself included are financial impacted by this pandemic and it’s reactionary effect on the economy. Personally I’m bringing home the least amount of income in the last 6 years it was tough. However I’m concerned with the lack of discussion from the GOP on where this goes. Your essentially giving the entire population welfare twice in 12 months and a significant amount both times. How does this not condition the public for UBI? How can you make the argument against UBI when both parties are unilaterally participating in this?
I’m seeing hardline conservatives bark at McConnell for not increasing payments from 600 to 2000 without conditions. I for one say thank you McConnell someone had to be a voice of reason here! Why not give everyone 10,000 dollars?
Democrats are flawlessly letting the GOP and Trump make the best argument for their dream objective UBI think about that
Know what the horrible part is? It is solely based on income from your previous tax return. This makes zero sense.
Once you accept the argument this is all meant to lay the foundation for UBI it makes perfect sense.
I can hear the arguments being made now COVID has forever changed our economy now more than ever the middle class needs the UBI
(01-03-2021, 08:36 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 07:35 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Know what the horrible part is? It is solely based on income from your previous tax return. This makes zero sense.
Once you accept the argument this is all meant to lay the foundation for UBI it makes perfect sense.
I can hear the arguments being made now COVID has forever changed our economy now more than ever the middle class needs the UBI
Which will lead to illegals taking the jobs nobody wants to take because they pay less than UBI.
Can you say recipe for disaster?
(01-03-2021, 08:38 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 08:36 PM)EricC85 Wrote: [ -> ]Once you accept the argument this is all meant to lay the foundation for UBI it makes perfect sense.
I can hear the arguments being made now COVID has forever changed our economy now more than ever the middle class needs the UBI
Which will lead to illegals taking the jobs nobody wants to take because they pay less than UBI.
Can you say recipe for disaster?
You misunderstand.
Everyone would get UBI, whether they worked or not.
That's what the U is for, Universal. Everyone. No means test, no phaseout, no requirement to apply for jobs.
If a citizen takes a job and earns some money, his UBI payments don't change.
(01-03-2021, 09:07 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 08:38 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Which will lead to illegals taking the jobs nobody wants to take because they pay less than UBI.
Can you say recipe for disaster?
You misunderstand.
Everyone would get UBI, whether they worked or not.
That's what the U is for, Universal. Everyone. No means test, no phaseout, no requirement to apply for jobs.
If a citizen takes a job and earns some money, his UBI payments don't change.
Correct UBI is an allowance without condition from mother government it is the ultimate nanny state policy. Anyone with basic understanding of economics should see it would be rendered useless in a decade due to inflation which will then lead to increases in payouts more inflation rinse and repeat. It’s only real purpose is to make everyone dependent on the state.
(01-03-2021, 09:07 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 08:38 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Which will lead to illegals taking the jobs nobody wants to take because they pay less than UBI.
Can you say recipe for disaster?
You misunderstand.
Everyone would get UBI, whether they worked or not.
That's what the U is for, Universal. Everyone. No means test, no phaseout, no requirement to apply for jobs.
If a citizen takes a job and earns some money, his UBI payments don't change.
And what you misunderstand is there is a percentage of our population who would make more money from UBI than actually working, therefore they would choose to not actually work.
Thus my comment mentioning the next logical group of people to take those jobs outside of teenagers looking for summer work.
(01-03-2021, 09:23 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 09:07 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You misunderstand.
Everyone would get UBI, whether they worked or not.
That's what the U is for, Universal. Everyone. No means test, no phaseout, no requirement to apply for jobs.
If a citizen takes a job and earns some money, his UBI payments don't change.
And what you misunderstand is there is a percentage of our population who would make more money from UBI than actually working, therefore they would choose to not actually work.
Thus my comment mentioning the next logical group of people to take those jobs outside of teenagers looking for summer work.
Suppose the UBI was $2000 a month, but the market only thought their 40 hours/week was worth $1000/month. If they took the job, they get $3000 a month total.
They probably take the job regardless of UBI.
There's probably not a disincentive to work.
There probably is an inflation trap, as EricC85 pointed out.
This isn’t a stimulus. It’s “don’t complain” hush money.
(01-03-2021, 09:31 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 09:23 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]And what you misunderstand is there is a percentage of our population who would make more money from UBI than actually working, therefore they would choose to not actually work.
Thus my comment mentioning the next logical group of people to take those jobs outside of teenagers looking for summer work.
Suppose the UBI was $2000 a month, but the market only thought their 40 hours/week was worth $1000/month. If they took the job, they get $3000 a month total.
They probably take the job regardless of UBI.
There's probably not a disincentive to work.
There probably is an inflation trap, as EricC85 pointed out.
There are a bucket of people who refused to go back to work when unemployment shot up to $600 a week during the pandemic. We have proven "a disincentive to work" in a very short time just by increasing unemployment. This sentiment would increase 1,000,000 fold with UBI.
The Democrats willingness to increase peoples reliance on government would backfire horribly in the case of UBI.
(01-03-2021, 09:38 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 09:31 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Suppose the UBI was $2000 a month, but the market only thought their 40 hours/week was worth $1000/month. If they took the job, they get $3000 a month total.
They probably take the job regardless of UBI.
There's probably not a disincentive to work.
There probably is an inflation trap, as EricC85 pointed out.
There are a bucket of people who refused to go back to work when unemployment shot up to $600 a week during the pandemic. We have proven "a disincentive to work" in a very short time just by increasing unemployment. This sentiment would increase 1,000,000 fold with UBI.
The Democrats willingness to increase peoples reliance on government would backfire horribly in the case of UBI.
Sure.
A boosted unemployment payment is conditional. Only people who had recently lost a job qualified for it. A conditional payment like that can create a disincentive to work.
A UBI payment would be unconditional.
(01-03-2021, 07:32 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]All anyone needs to know about the bill that was passed is “Pakistan Gender Studies”. This should have been a hard NO by every elected representative. Over 5000 pages and was it 3 hours to review it? Every bleeping son of a bleep that voted for this needs to be drug out of their DC office and face trial for High Crimes and Treason.
There is a difference between stupidity and treason. If anything, these days I'd say being smart is treasonous.
(01-03-2021, 07:35 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]Know what the horrible part is? It is solely based on income from your previous tax return. This makes zero sense.
I get why, though. How else are you going to put everyone on anything even close to resembling a level playing field. Require everyone to submit copies of their last two months' worth of pay stubs? Or, worse, make employers do it? If you're ok with the payments taking a year to go out, sure, you can get creative. If you need them out the door now, last year's tax return it is.
(01-03-2021, 09:23 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 09:07 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You misunderstand.
Everyone would get UBI, whether they worked or not.
That's what the U is for, Universal. Everyone. No means test, no phaseout, no requirement to apply for jobs.
If a citizen takes a job and earns some money, his UBI payments don't change.
And what you misunderstand is there is a percentage of our population who would make more money from UBI than actually working, therefore they would choose to not actually work.
Thus my comment mentioning the next logical group of people to take those jobs outside of teenagers looking for summer work.
You're both partially right. A UBI would be issued to everyone, regardless of employment and compensation from their work. Would there ever be a situation in which someone would make more by accepting UBI than they would by working? No. Would there be a situation in which someone might say, "I only make $20,000 per year waiting tables and my UBI is $40,000...why am I working at all?" Hell yes. If someone is getting paid so little that it's easier for them to just live off of American Yen, they will. This problem would be even bigger as you get to lower-income families. If the two parents are making $50,000 between the two of them and UBI is $80,000 combined, they're going to walk into a whole new world of living better with no job than they were with two. Would they continue to work, or would they retire at 25?
And then we'll screwed again in 10 years because $40,000 has become the new zero point. Hence, the American Yen. If you really want to make a sustainable economic impact, change the way income and sales tax are weighted in this country to a point where we're a much more consumption-based society. But no one would ever do something that solves so many problems at once, and if UBI becomes a thing and people get spoiled by this inflation bomb waiting to happen, consumption based taxes will never happen.
(01-03-2021, 07:36 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2021, 07:32 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]All anyone needs to know about the bill that was passed is “Pakistan Gender Studies”. This should have been a hard NO by every elected representative. Over 5000 pages and was it 3 hours to review it? Every bleeping son of a bleep that voted for this needs to be drug out of their DC office and face trial for High Crimes and Treason.
There is only one way to fix this and that is at the ballot box. Unfortunately, stupid people are multiplying faster than smart, reasonable people.
(01-03-2021, 07:35 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Treason?! You'll sprain yourself making stretches like that.
Every American should be pissed off and furious about what has transpired.
The ballot box is rigged by gerrymandering, and closed partisan primaries, also.
as for your call for every American to get pissed off about this, I've got enough anger in my life. Sorry.
![[Image: 09wnnbuacr861.jpg?auto=webp&s=76e2805916...a7365b3ebe]](https://preview.redd.it/09wnnbuacr861.jpg?auto=webp&s=76e2805916d379d23339150d0a0cc6a7365b3ebe)