(01-05-2021, 04:09 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Some of you have no idea what the term "micro-management" means. A business owner having the final say about how his money is handled is not micro-management.
By your definition then, there are no circumstances under which a business owner could ever micro-manage any decisions which are financial in nature under. Sorry, but you're incorrect and actual ownership is not necessarily a relevant factor.
Regardless, we're only talking semantics. How would you describe an owner who has publicly stated that the (yet unknown) incoming GM will not have full authority to do the job he was hired to do? Meddlesome? Interfering? Controlling?
(01-05-2021, 07:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2021, 04:09 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Some of you have no idea what the term "micro-management" means. A business owner having the final say about how his money is handled is not micro-management.
By your definition then, there are no circumstances under which a business owner could ever micro-manage any decisions which are financial in nature under. Sorry, but you're incorrect and actual ownership is not necessarily a relevant factor.
Regardless, we're only talking semantics. How would you describe an owner who has publicly stated that the (yet unknown) incoming GM will not have full authority to do the job he was hired to do? Meddlesome? Interfering? Controlling?
In that video press conference that I assume were referencing, he did later clarify that it was about money being spent on contracts. Others have posted this as well. I took it like some of them did as well. More so of a “Pay Ramsey and Yan”. Get over the beef. Can you imagintif we had Trevor, Robinson, chark Johnson, Ramsey, Yan plus the other good players we have and had? If the locker room was in order? [BLEEP], I’d be able to coach that team to victory
(01-05-2021, 07:32 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2021, 07:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]By your definition then, there are no circumstances under which a business owner could ever micro-manage any decisions which are financial in nature under. Sorry, but you're incorrect and actual ownership is not necessarily a relevant factor.
Regardless, we're only talking semantics. How would you describe an owner who has publicly stated that the (yet unknown) incoming GM will not have full authority to do the job he was hired to do? Meddlesome? Interfering? Controlling?
In that video press conference that I assume were referencing, he did later clarify that it was about money being spent on contracts. Others have posted this as well. I took it like some of them did as well. More so of a “Pay Ramsey and Yan”. Get over the beef. Can you imagintif we had Trevor, Robinson, chark Johnson, Ramsey, Yan plus the other good players we have and had? If the locker room was in order? [BLEEP], I’d be able to coach that team to victory
Not while maintaining a salary cap...
(01-05-2021, 07:32 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2021, 07:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]By your definition then, there are no circumstances under which a business owner could ever micro-manage any decisions which are financial in nature under. Sorry, but you're incorrect and actual ownership is not necessarily a relevant factor.
Regardless, we're only talking semantics. How would you describe an owner who has publicly stated that the (yet unknown) incoming GM will not have full authority to do the job he was hired to do? Meddlesome? Interfering? Controlling?
In that video press conference that I assume were referencing, he did later clarify that it was about money being spent on contracts. Others have posted this as well. I took it like some of them did as well. More so of a “Pay Ramsey and Yan”. Get over the beef. Can you imagintif we had Trevor, Robinson, chark Johnson, Ramsey, Yan plus the other good players we have and had? If the locker room was in order? [BLEEP], I’d be able to coach that team to victory
As we know all of the players that were mentioned except TLaw16 were drafted by Caldwell. I still feel that it was a bad move to dismiss him. The issues of which most of the players departed wasn't his fault.
As per Mr. Khan having the final say on personnel, yes it was contract driven based on the mishap w/respect to the $60,000,000.00 Nick Foles debacle and I don't blame him.
NH3...
You can imagine all those players but we still had Yan and Ramsey, se.wouldn't be picking first. We would be 5 to 6 wins and going nowhere but a tad more competitive.
(01-05-2021, 07:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2021, 04:09 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Some of you have no idea what the term "micro-management" means. A business owner having the final say about how his money is handled is not micro-management.
By your definition then, there are no circumstances under which a business owner could ever micro-manage any decisions which are financial in nature under. Sorry, but you're incorrect and actual ownership is not necessarily a relevant factor.
Regardless, we're only talking semantics. How would you describe an owner who has publicly stated that the (yet unknown) incoming GM will not have full authority to do the job he was hired to do? Meddlesome? Interfering? Controlling?
Attentive? Interested? Invested? why do all your adjectives have negative connotation?
we have no idea to what degree the owner will exert his final say regarding roster and spending. What if it's merely "don't blow the entire cap on one free agent, unless for some odd reason the Chiefs wave Mahomes" or "I do not want domestic abusers signed to high-dollar contracts"?
The GM is accountable to the owner. It only makes sense that the GM ensure that the owner is on board with the way the GM is attempting to spend the owner's money, especially early on while the GM is proving that he is on the same page as the owner. We had the polar opposite with TC, and look where that got us. How much dead money was wasted on just the QB position alone?
(01-05-2021, 07:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2021, 04:09 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Some of you have no idea what the term "micro-management" means. A business owner having the final say about how his money is handled is not micro-management.
By your definition then, there are no circumstances under which a business owner could ever micro-manage any decisions which are financial in nature under. Sorry, but you're incorrect and actual ownership is not necessarily a relevant factor.
Regardless, we're only talking semantics. How would you describe an owner who has publicly stated that the (yet unknown) incoming GM will not have full authority to do the job he was hired to do? Meddlesome? Interfering? Controlling?
At one pole you have Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder. At the other end you've the Paul Allens of the world who have very little to do with football operations.
Most owners are somewhere in between.
They are the employers of the GMs they hire, and accordingly they stay apprised at the very least and to varying degrees, involved in large decisions.
There's no need to polarize Shad Khan to the extreme Jones/Snyder end of the spectrum because he made clear he won't allow a Coughlin-style rough-shod takeover dumpster fire to take place.
If Khan saw Coughlin come though his building and proceed to alienate multiple first round picks and pro bowlers while putting the team in cap hell and then he
DIDN'T want to follow that by being part of the discussion in roster transactions, then I'd be very concerned about his sanity.
I bet if we sit back and analyze over the next year exactly how "meddlesome" Khan is with his new GM we'll find he's just making sure his franchise doesn't get screwed over again.
(01-05-2021, 07:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2021, 04:09 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Some of you have no idea what the term "micro-management" means. A business owner having the final say about how his money is handled is not micro-management.
By your definition then, there are no circumstances under which a business owner could ever micro-manage any decisions which are financial in nature under. Sorry, but you're incorrect and actual ownership is not necessarily a relevant factor.
Regardless, we're only talking semantics. How would you describe an owner who has publicly stated that the (yet unknown) incoming GM will not have full authority to do the job he was hired to do? Meddlesome? Interfering? Controlling?
The thing is, that is not what Mr. Khan said. He simply stated that he would have the final say over personnel decisions. He also said that the GM and the Head Coach would both report to him directly. That wasn't the case when Tom Coughlin was here and I'm not sure about prior (I seem to recall Tony Khan being in that position).
A good example of micro-managing would be the fact that it was speculated that Fournette was a "Coughlin pick". There was also speculation that Coughlin forced Marrone to start Nick Foles when he was healthy even though Minshew had been doing well.
This past season he gave Caldwell and Marrone one last chance to be successful, and I see no evidence that Mr. Khan was "micro-managing" any of their decisions.
(01-06-2021, 01:06 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (01-05-2021, 07:28 PM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]By your definition then, there are no circumstances under which a business owner could ever micro-manage any decisions which are financial in nature under. Sorry, but you're incorrect and actual ownership is not necessarily a relevant factor.
Regardless, we're only talking semantics. How would you describe an owner who has publicly stated that the (yet unknown) incoming GM will not have full authority to do the job he was hired to do? Meddlesome? Interfering? Controlling?
Attentive? Interested? Invested? why do all your adjectives have negative connotation?
we have no idea to what degree the owner will exert his final say regarding roster and spending. What if it's merely "don't blow the entire cap on one free agent, unless for some odd reason the Chiefs wave Mahomes" or "I do not want domestic abusers signed to high-dollar contracts"?
The GM is accountable to the owner. It only makes sense that the GM ensure that the owner is on board with the way the GM is attempting to spend the owner's money, especially early on while the GM is proving that he is on the same page as the owner. We had the polar opposite with TC, and look where that got us. How much dead money was wasted on just the QB position alone?
Why is a non-football guy making football guy decisions ring as a positive thing to you? Do you happily let your mechanic do dental work on you? How about the store bag boy operate on your heart? There is no problem with Khan dealing with financials with the football team outside of the salary cap. Everything within should be entirely in control of a football guy he hired. I would not want to manage a group of people with my higher up over my shoulder at every turn. Been there, done that. It's not a good thing, that is reality.
(01-06-2021, 04:22 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-06-2021, 01:06 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Attentive? Interested? Invested? why do all your adjectives have negative connotation?
we have no idea to what degree the owner will exert his final say regarding roster and spending. What if it's merely "don't blow the entire cap on one free agent, unless for some odd reason the Chiefs wave Mahomes" or "I do not want domestic abusers signed to high-dollar contracts"?
The GM is accountable to the owner. It only makes sense that the GM ensure that the owner is on board with the way the GM is attempting to spend the owner's money, especially early on while the GM is proving that he is on the same page as the owner. We had the polar opposite with TC, and look where that got us. How much dead money was wasted on just the QB position alone?
Why is a non-football guy making football guy decisions ring as a positive thing to you? Do you happily let your mechanic do dental work on you? How about the store bag boy operate on your heart? There is no problem with Khan dealing with financials with the football team outside of the salary cap. Everything within should be entirely in control of a football guy he hired. I would not want to manage a group of people with my higher up over my shoulder at every turn. Been there, done that. It's not a good thing, that is reality.
So Khan should have zero say as to how HIS money is spent for football players? And your examples are ridiculous btw. And Khan having final say on financial decision is akin to you boss 'looking over your shoulder at every turn'? Really?
Let's just add a ridiculous example to go with yours. Does your boss also say, "Go spend all my money. i don't care what you do with it."
I see many people have never owned or built a business.
When aspects of your business are failing, you have to step in and atleast be a part of the process to make sure its headed in the right direction.
When you solely rely on football guys, you get Tom Coughlin and the mismanagement of the cap. Or O'Brien and his ludicrous roster management.
These dude's get tunnel vision and sometimes the Owner has to step in and set some boundaries.
Nothing in what Shad has said leads me to believe he will meddle like Jones. He seems to be wanting to take on a more working relationship similar to what the Rooney's or Kraft have done.
(01-06-2021, 05:00 PM)jagshype Wrote: [ -> ]I see many people have never owned or built a business.
When aspects of your business are failing, you have to step in and atleast be a part of the process to make sure its headed in the right direction.
When you solely rely on football guys, you get Tom Coughlin and the mismanagement of the cap. Or O'Brien and his ludicrous roster management.
These dude's get tunnel vision and sometimes the Owner has to step in and set some boundaries.
Nothing in what Shad has said leads me to believe he will meddle like Jones. He seems to be wanting to take on a more working relationship similar to what the Rooney's or Kraft have done.
people that have never built a business .... any business... from the ground up can only speculate.
Khan built his business(es) to be able to buy an NFL team.
I don't blame him at all for changing his approach and applaud him leaving the "experts" aside and trusting his own judgment this time around.
He knows whats at stake and will do all in his power to see it to a successful start.
(01-06-2021, 06:31 PM)Mowerguy Wrote: [ -> ] (01-06-2021, 05:00 PM)jagshype Wrote: [ -> ]I see many people have never owned or built a business.
When aspects of your business are failing, you have to step in and atleast be a part of the process to make sure its headed in the right direction.
When you solely rely on football guys, you get Tom Coughlin and the mismanagement of the cap. Or O'Brien and his ludicrous roster management.
These dude's get tunnel vision and sometimes the Owner has to step in and set some boundaries.
Nothing in what Shad has said leads me to believe he will meddle like Jones. He seems to be wanting to take on a more working relationship similar to what the Rooney's or Kraft have done.
people that have never built a business .... any business... from the ground up can only speculate.
Khan built his business(es) to be able to buy an NFL team.
I don't blame him at all for changing his approach and applaud him leaving the "experts" aside and trusting his own judgment this time around.
He knows whats at stake and will do all in his power to see it to a successful start.
I agree with you, but... khan didn’t build that business from the ground up. He worked there for a while and then bought it. Not to take anything away from it. Dude is definitely a master businessman. But it seems like the business was already established. Still, I’m trying to figure out how a man became a billionaire selling bumpers. But whatever.
It was a pretty minor parts stamping business when he got a job there.
So to do what he did was nothing short of stunning.
a kid who came to school here that had to live in the YMCA and to end up as he has is nothing but amazing.
Now he needs to apply his football knowledge gained at considerable expense and get this right ...
and Im betting he will.
(01-06-2021, 06:40 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-06-2021, 06:31 PM)Mowerguy Wrote: [ -> ]people that have never built a business .... any business... from the ground up can only speculate.
Khan built his business(es) to be able to buy an NFL team.
I don't blame him at all for changing his approach and applaud him leaving the "experts" aside and trusting his own judgment this time around.
He knows whats at stake and will do all in his power to see it to a successful start.
I agree with you, but... khan didn’t build that business from the ground up. He worked there for a while and then bought it. Not to take anything away from it. Dude is definitely a master businessman. But it seems like the business was already established. Still, I’m trying to figure out how a man became a billionaire selling bumpers. But whatever.
From what I understand, it was his innovation of a single piece bumper that propelled him upwards. It was a money and time saver for auto manufacturers who contracted with his business, Flex-N-Gate, for parts. The rest is hi$tory.
(01-06-2021, 04:22 PM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-06-2021, 01:06 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]Attentive? Interested? Invested? why do all your adjectives have negative connotation?
we have no idea to what degree the owner will exert his final say regarding roster and spending. What if it's merely "don't blow the entire cap on one free agent, unless for some odd reason the Chiefs wave Mahomes" or "I do not want domestic abusers signed to high-dollar contracts"?
The GM is accountable to the owner. It only makes sense that the GM ensure that the owner is on board with the way the GM is attempting to spend the owner's money, especially early on while the GM is proving that he is on the same page as the owner. We had the polar opposite with TC, and look where that got us. How much dead money was wasted on just the QB position alone?
Why is a non-football guy making football guy decisions ring as a positive thing to you? Do you happily let your mechanic do dental work on you? How about the store bag boy operate on your heart? There is no problem with Khan dealing with financials with the football team outside of the salary cap. Everything within should be entirely in control of a football guy he hired. I would not want to manage a group of people with my higher up over my shoulder at every turn. Been there, done that. It's not a good thing, that is reality.
Not quite the same thing. First, the point I was making about connotation is that Sneakers was forcing the negative opinion in only using those words. Adding a mix of positive and negative might foster more thought, or lead us to come up with a better way of characterizing Khan's position.
Your hyperbole fails. Or are you suggesting that our next GM is going to be a bag boy? If I own a business, I may not be an expert in every aspect of the business. I bring in a manager who knows sales, personnel, data safeguarding, etc. If I tell that manager that I want every new hire to have a college degree, that is "roster control". If I ask to sign off on the hiring decision before the candidate is hired, I have a chance to verify that the standards I have set are adhered to. Or, if I tell my manager that the position should start at $50K per year, but he finds a slam dunk candidate asking for $60K, I want to be able to review that candidate before I let the manager hire that person.
How is that a bad thing? Do you really think Khan is going to be telling the GM not to draft a player because he listens to country music, or that a guy on the street thinks that Manziel kid is the bees knees, so we better pick him up at all costs? Come on.
(01-07-2021, 09:39 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (01-06-2021, 06:40 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with you, but... khan didn’t build that business from the ground up. He worked there for a while and then bought it. Not to take anything away from it. Dude is definitely a master businessman. But it seems like the business was already established. Still, I’m trying to figure out how a man became a billionaire selling bumpers. But whatever.
From what I understand, it was his innovation of a single piece bumper that propelled him upwards. It was a money and time saver for auto manufacturers who contracted with his business, Flex-N-Gate, for parts. The rest is hi$tory.
He started it while a student at the University of Illinois as a Mechanical Engineer;
He worked for Flex Gate but then also started his own company Bumper Works in 1978. (It's not clear whether he was still working for Flex Gate while running is own Bumper Works company or had left Flex Gate.
It says in 1980 he bought Flex Gate. And the rest is history.
"
Khan worked at the automotive manufacturing company Flex-N-Gate Corporation while attending the University of Illinois. When he graduated he was hired as the engineering director for the company. In 1978, he started Bumper Works, which made car bumpers for customized pickup trucks and body shop repairs.[9] The funds to start the new business included a $50,000 loan from the Small Business Administration and $16,000 of his own savings.[15]
In 1980, he bought Flex-N-Gate from his former employer Charles Gleason Butzow, bringing Bumper Works into the fold. Khan grew the company so that it supplied bumpers for the Big Three automakers. In 1984, he began supplying a small number of bumpers for Toyota pickups. By 1987 it was the sole supplier for Toyota pickups and by 1989 it was the sole supplier for the entire Toyota line in the United States. Adopting The Toyota Way increased company efficiency and ability to change its manufacturing process within a few minutes.[9][16] Since then, the company has grown from $17 million in sales to an estimated $2 billion in 2010 to $8.89 billion in 2020.[17]
By 2011, Flex-N-Gate had 12,450 employees and 48 manufacturing plants in the United States and several other countries[10] and in 2018 had a revenue of $8.3 billion and was ranked as the 49th largest private USA company by Forbes.[18]It is also ranked by Automotive News as 7th largest American automotive parts supplier and overall 33rd largest supplier in the world.
In May 2012, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration fined Flex-N-Gate $57,000 for health violations at its Urbana plant.[19] Before the 2012 NFL Draft, the United Automobile Workers (UAW) and other environmentalist groups organized a campaign for several accusations against Flex-N-Gate and Khan.[20][21]"
Shahid R. Khan, owner and chief executive officer of Flex-N-Gate Corporation, began working for the company in 1970 while studying Industrial Engineering at Illinois. Born in Pakistan, Khan came to the United States in 1967, at the age of 16, to attend the University of Illinois.
Khan continued to work at Flex-N-Gate until 1978,
when he left the company to start a new venture. With the help of a Small Business Administration loan, he began a new business designing and building an innovative bumper system—a lightweight, continuous piece of metal with no seams to corrode or rust. This entrepreneurial adventure, which began as a one-man, one-garage, one-press operation, created a product that is considered the industry design standard today.
More than 90 percent of the pick-up trucks and sport utility vehicles have bumper systems supplied by Flex-N-Gate.
Khan purchased Flex-N-Gate in 1980, and he remains the sole owner. Today, the corporation employs more than 15,000 associates at 49 manufacturing plants in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Spain, Argentina, and Brazil, with annual sales exceeding $2.7 billion.
https://grainger.illinois.edu/alumni/hal...hahid-kahn
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