What do these players have in common?
Yannick Ngakoue
Calais Campbell
Jalen Ramsey
Allen Robinson
Jaydon Mickens
Allen Lazard
Leonard Fournette
Tashaun Gipson
Tyson Alualu
Ronnie Harrison
Jason Myers
TJ Yeldon
The obvious answer is, they are all former Jaguar players. But the answer I'm going for is, THEY ALL STARTED FOR PLAYOFF TEAMS IN 2021. Starters. Not backups. Starters.
Now, one would think that if a team is 1-15, they could use almost any starter from a playoff team. Right? How come we either could not, or would not, retain any of such an extensive list of players who went on to start on playoff teams this year? It's mind-boggling.
Obviously, there was something way out of sync with the way this team has been managed, that goes beyond first round flops, and the failure to find a quarterback. Maybe it has to do with the "alignment" Urban Meyer keeps talking about. I don't know. It's just weird.
Players just aren't going to give their all for an organization they consider dysfunctional. There's been a persistent morale problem inside that stadium for years and years. I was hoping 2017 would snap us out of it but it returned with a vengeance the very next year.
A complete and total reset, with the few exceptions, is exactly what was needed. I'm still not entirely sold on Meyer, but his attitude and philosophy is certainly a big change up from what we've had in the past.
I remember a few years ago, nobody that was leaving this team was going on to have success elsewhere. And we still sucked.
Would be nice if we still had a few of those guys. Then again, they may have helped us win a few more games this year and we could still be in QB purgatory.
(01-27-2021, 09:34 AM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ]I remember a few years ago, nobody that was leaving this team was going on to have success elsewhere. And we still sucked.
Would be nice if we still had a few of those guys. Then again, they may have helped us win a few more games this year and we could still be in QB purgatory.
Yep: I remember getting excited about signing scrap heap rejects like Jason Hill, Matt Roth, Jason Gildon thinking they were gonna do something for US. Now OUR cuts go on and do great things for other teams.
We finally got a GM in Caldwell that could identify talent but didn't realize he didn't know how to retain talent --- I know Coughlin had a lot to do with that as well.
(01-27-2021, 09:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]What do these players have in common?
Yannick Ngakoue
Calais Campbell
Jalen Ramsey
Allen Robinson
Jaydon Mickens
Allen Lazard
Leonard Fournette
Tashaun Gipson
Tyson Alualu
Ronnie Harrison
Jason Myers
TJ Yeldon
The obvious answer is, they are all former Jaguar players. But the answer I'm going for is, THEY ALL STARTED FOR PLAYOFF TEAMS IN 2021. Starters. Not backups. Starters.
Now, one would think that if a team is 1-15, they could use almost any starter from a playoff team. Right? How come we either could not, or would not, retain any of such an extensive list of players who went on to start on playoff teams this year? It's mind-boggling.
Obviously, there was something way out of sync with the way this team has been managed, that goes beyond first round flops, and the failure to find a quarterback. Maybe it has to do with the "alignment" Urban Meyer keeps talking about. I don't know. It's just weird.
You make a very good point as usual. The thing is, most of those names were drafted high by us or became a key player to starter for us. We identified talent but we couldnt get one of those players to sign a 2nd contract.
This is one thing I think weve lost in the years of churning draft picks, the first few years are seeing if the guy is good enough and improves over those 4-5 years, it's not a case of they have to win a SB on that rookie contract to justify a second one.
I get the salary cap makes it hard to keep teams together but I want a core group of leaders that are here for a career and get Duval and Jacksonville and can teach that to the next generation.
(01-27-2021, 10:29 AM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]You make a very good point as usual. The thing is, most of those names were drafted high by us or became a key player to starter for us. We identified talent but we couldnt get one of those players to sign a 2nd contract.
This is one thing I think weve lost in the years of churning draft picks, the first few years are seeing if the guy is good enough and improves over those 4-5 years, it's not a case of they have to win a SB on that rookie contract to justify a second one.
I get the salary cap makes it hard to keep teams together but I want a core group of leaders that are here for a career and get Duval and Jacksonville and can teach that to the next generation.
Here lies the problem with that list. No leaders other than Calais.
(01-27-2021, 09:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]What do these players have in common?
Yannick Ngakoue
Calais Campbell
Jalen Ramsey
Allen Robinson
Jaydon Mickens
Allen Lazard
Leonard Fournette
Tashaun Gipson
Tyson Alualu
Ronnie Harrison
Jason Myers
TJ Yeldon
The obvious answer is, they are all former Jaguar players. But the answer I'm going for is, THEY ALL STARTED FOR PLAYOFF TEAMS IN 2021. Starters. Not backups. Starters.
Now, one would think that if a team is 1-15, they could use almost any starter from a playoff team. Right? How come we either could not, or would not, retain any of such an extensive list of players who went on to start on playoff teams this year? It's mind-boggling.
Obviously, there was something way out of sync with the way this team has been managed, that goes beyond first round flops, and the failure to find a quarterback. Maybe it has to do with the "alignment" Urban Meyer keeps talking about. I don't know. It's just weird.
About half of these guys are 'starters', three are impact guys, the rest are just guys.
(01-27-2021, 10:57 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2021, 09:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]What do these players have in common?
Yannick Ngakoue
Calais Campbell
Jalen Ramsey
Allen Robinson
Jaydon Mickens
Allen Lazard
Leonard Fournette
Tashaun Gipson
Tyson Alualu
Ronnie Harrison
Jason Myers
TJ Yeldon
The obvious answer is, they are all former Jaguar players. But the answer I'm going for is, THEY ALL STARTED FOR PLAYOFF TEAMS IN 2021. Starters. Not backups. Starters.
Now, one would think that if a team is 1-15, they could use almost any starter from a playoff team. Right? How come we either could not, or would not, retain any of such an extensive list of players who went on to start on playoff teams this year? It's mind-boggling.
Obviously, there was something way out of sync with the way this team has been managed, that goes beyond first round flops, and the failure to find a quarterback. Maybe it has to do with the "alignment" Urban Meyer keeps talking about. I don't know. It's just weird.
About half of these guys are 'starters', three are impact guys, the rest are just guys.
All those guys started for their teams in the playoffs. Of course, I am including a starting punt returner and a starting kicker, but my point remains, for a multitude of reasons, they are not starting for us. They are
starting for
playoff teams and we are 1-15. We didn't think they were good enough, or we thought we were better off without them, or they wanted to go somewhere else. Add in the fact that we missed on first round picks, and failed to find a QB in spite of numerous high draft picks, and you can see the mismanagement on a grand scale.
(01-27-2021, 10:53 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2021, 10:29 AM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]You make a very good point as usual. The thing is, most of those names were drafted high by us or became a key player to starter for us. We identified talent but we couldnt get one of those players to sign a 2nd contract.
This is one thing I think weve lost in the years of churning draft picks, the first few years are seeing if the guy is good enough and improves over those 4-5 years, it's not a case of they have to win a SB on that rookie contract to justify a second one.
I get the salary cap makes it hard to keep teams together but I want a core group of leaders that are here for a career and get Duval and Jacksonville and can teach that to the next generation.
Here lies the problem with that list. No leaders other than Calais.
And that's more than fair. In fact more than a few have shown they dont have that leader quality. I know we arent top of most college kids list of teams where they would like to end up but you see players embrace cities and teams they are drafted to elsewhere so why not here.
(01-27-2021, 10:53 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2021, 10:29 AM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]You make a very good point as usual. The thing is, most of those names were drafted high by us or became a key player to starter for us. We identified talent but we couldnt get one of those players to sign a 2nd contract.
This is one thing I think weve lost in the years of churning draft picks, the first few years are seeing if the guy is good enough and improves over those 4-5 years, it's not a case of they have to win a SB on that rookie contract to justify a second one.
I get the salary cap makes it hard to keep teams together but I want a core group of leaders that are here for a career and get Duval and Jacksonville and can teach that to the next generation.
Here lies the problem with that list. No leaders other than Calais.
And we let him go. I will forever hold that against Caldwell & Co. Calais
wanted to stay here and continue leading those guys but noooo....someone hit the peace pipe too hard and traded him. Jacktards every single one.
As Homebiscuit said too, the culture has been such that players don't want to stay and I'm not talking about lying crybaby Jalen Ramsey, or nut job Telvin Smith, I'm talking the regular guys who want to play ball, get paid and actually like the organization they work for.
Honestly, it's hard to be excited about our draft picks when history tells us we draft some positions/players too high and we can't keep the good ones. I guess we'll see with Meyer and Baalke. I am curious to see how this plays out.
The thing about this list is only the first four were difference making players, all of whom either left because they didn't want to be here, or left because the team couldn't afford them anymore. You could probably find a list of 5-6 players that started in the playoffs for a different team than the one that drafted them for most teams in the league. The reality is even good teams don't have 22 difference makers, they have 6 or 7 difference makers and the rest of the guys are just taking advantage of the opportunities the difference makers create for them. Is it really important that someone who was once on the Jaguars is another team's worst starter?
Plus this year there were 14 teams in the playoffs, almost 44% of the league was in the playoffs this year.
(01-27-2021, 11:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2021, 10:57 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]About half of these guys are 'starters', three are impact guys, the rest are just guys.
All those guys started for their teams in the playoffs. Of course, I am including a starting punt returner and a starting kicker, but my point remains, for a multitude of reasons, they are not starting for us. They are starting for playoff teams and we are 1-15. We didn't think they were good enough, or we thought we were better off without them, or they wanted to go somewhere else. Add in the fact that we missed on first round picks, and failed to find a QB in spite of numerous high draft picks, and you can see the mismanagement on a grand scale.
Failing to find a QB is very different from choosing another position because we thought we had our guy and it was obvious to everyone we did not. Didn't we pass on the possibility of Mahomes because we had Bortles?
And yet I wouldn’t change anything about it to be in the position we currently are.
(01-27-2021, 11:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2021, 10:57 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]About half of these guys are 'starters', three are impact guys, the rest are just guys.
All those guys started for their teams in the playoffs. Of course, I am including a starting punt returner and a starting kicker, but my point remains, for a multitude of reasons, they are not starting for us. They are starting for playoff teams and we are 1-15. We didn't think they were good enough, or we thought we were better off without them, or they wanted to go somewhere else. Add in the fact that we missed on first round picks, and failed to find a QB in spite of numerous high draft picks, and you can see the mismanagement on a grand scale.
Mickens has zero catches in the playoffs and 7 total for the entire season.
He is not even listed on the bucs depth chart.
(01-27-2021, 02:23 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2021, 11:45 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]All those guys started for their teams in the playoffs. Of course, I am including a starting punt returner and a starting kicker, but my point remains, for a multitude of reasons, they are not starting for us. They are starting for playoff teams and we are 1-15. We didn't think they were good enough, or we thought we were better off without them, or they wanted to go somewhere else. Add in the fact that we missed on first round picks, and failed to find a QB in spite of numerous high draft picks, and you can see the mismanagement on a grand scale.
Mickens has zero catches in the playoffs and 7 total for the entire season.
He is not even listed on the bucs depth chart.
Mickens is their primary PR/KR averaging about 25 yards a return on KR and about 6.5 per PR
The list were players ticked off because who was offered second contracts and how it was handled. I hope this is fixed going forward.
Early success came at the cost of the salary cap and the win now closing of the window.
Second wave had a solid core but again they went all in with 2 draft picks to fix the win now.
Thus last time around, was one year and the plan was based on luck.
Time to start making our own luck by aligning opportunity to preparation.
(01-27-2021, 09:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Yannick Ngakoue
Calais Campbell
Jalen Ramsey
Allen Robinson
Jaydon Mickens
Allen Lazard
Leonard Fournette
Tashaun Gipson
Tyson Alualu
Ronnie Harrison
Jason Myers
TJ Yeldon
You know, none of these guys have won a Super Bowl. And the least impactful guy, Mickens, is the only one playing for one. I get your point, but it’s over. Keep going over these hypothetical list of rosters we could have had if we kept all our players over the course of a decade is going to have you on the bottle. We are going back to Alualu? I like the situation we have with Trevor Lawrence, Meyer, Josh Allen, DJ Chark, etc. because if all goes right, we’ll have 22 guys to list off of Jaguars who start playoff games in 2021
(01-27-2021, 03:13 PM)Black and Teal Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2021, 09:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Yannick Ngakoue
Calais Campbell
Jalen Ramsey
Allen Robinson
Jaydon Mickens
Allen Lazard
Leonard Fournette
Tashaun Gipson
Tyson Alualu
Ronnie Harrison
Jason Myers
TJ Yeldon
You know, none of these guys have won a Super Bowl. And the least impactful guy, Mickens, is the only one playing for one. I get your point, but it’s over. Keep going over these hypothetical list of rosters we could have had if we kept all our players over the course of a decade is going to have you on the bottle. We are going back to Alualu? I like the situation we have with Trevor Lawrence, Meyer, Josh Allen, DJ Chark, etc. because if all goes right, we’ll have 22 guys to list off of Jaguars who start playoff games in 2021
You missed that lil' feller right there. I get what you're saying though. The only one on this list that bothers me is Allen Lazard. He seems to be genuinely blossoming into a QUALITY receiver in GB.
Ditto on Ronnie Harrison. The guy started on a pretty stout Cleveland defense, because Dave got rid of him....because he thought he had a "diamond in the rough" with Josh Jones.
(01-27-2021, 10:29 AM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2021, 09:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]What do these players have in common?
You make a very good point as usual.
I think you inadvertently thought that I compiled the original post.
Also, I hope you realize we're only allowed 3 compliments per year so don't waste them in the 1st month of the year. Fortunately, we have unlimited number of insults to post (as long as they aren't too bad), so that's what keeps most people active around here.