Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(06-26-2021, 06:19 PM)cincyjacket Wrote: [ -> ]We had an undrafted running back go for over 1000 yards. That doesn't happen without a decent offensive line.

This

(06-26-2021, 06:19 PM)cincyjacket Wrote: [ -> ]We had an undrafted running back go for over 1000 yards. That doesn't happen without a decent offensive line.

A RB that ran between the Tackles. Our interior O-Line is fine. It's the starting OT's that suck.

(06-27-2021, 02:18 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2021, 06:19 PM)cincyjacket Wrote: [ -> ]We had an undrafted running back go for over 1000 yards. That doesn't happen without a decent offensive line.

A RB that ran between the Tackles. Our interior O-Line is fine. It's the starting OT's that suck.

The tackles contributed to Robinson’s 1k but I don’t feel like arguing

(06-27-2021, 02:18 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-26-2021, 06:19 PM)cincyjacket Wrote: [ -> ]We had an undrafted running back go for over 1000 yards. That doesn't happen without a decent offensive line.

A RB that ran between the Tackles. Our interior O-Line is fine. It's the starting OT's that suck.

Our interior OL can best be described as average. All the credit for Robinson's rookie season goes to Robinson himself. The tackles are awful at pass pro. Maybe it was scheme. The OL is the weakest link on the team though. At least they were last year, reserving judgement for now.

(06-27-2021, 03:41 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2021, 02:18 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]A RB that ran between the Tackles. Our interior O-Line is fine. It's the starting OT's that suck.

Our interior OL can best be described as average. All the credit for Robinson's rookie season goes to Robinson himself. The tackles are awful at pass pro. Maybe it was scheme. The OL is the weakest link on the team though. At least they were last year, reserving judgement for now.

Exactly. To me, average is fine, but you are "spot on" about Cam Robinson and Jawaan Taylor. If it was the scheme, nothing will change since Warhop is back.

(06-27-2021, 07:15 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2021, 03:41 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]Our interior OL can best be described as average. All the credit for Robinson's rookie season goes to Robinson himself. The tackles are awful at pass pro. Maybe it was scheme. The OL is the weakest link on the team though. At least they were last year, reserving judgement for now.

Exactly. To me, average is fine, but you are "spot on" about Cam Robinson and Jawaan Taylor. If it was the scheme, nothing will change since Warhop is back.

The Oline coach might have input but the OC determines scheme.

(06-27-2021, 07:53 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2021, 07:15 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. To me, average is fine, but you are "spot on" about Cam Robinson and Jawaan Taylor. If it was the scheme, nothing will change since Warhop is back.

The Oline coach might have input but the OC determines scheme.

Which is taught by the O-Line coach.

(06-27-2021, 11:50 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2021, 07:53 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]The Oline coach might have input but the OC determines scheme.

Which is taught by the O-Line coach.

Correct but let's say you have guys who fit a Gap Scheme but your OC wants to run IZ and OZ, guess what you are running? Yes it is your job to teach it but if your OC doesn't listen to you when you tell him what your guys run best, is that necessarily on you?

(06-28-2021, 08:10 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2021, 11:50 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Which is taught by the O-Line coach.

Correct but let's say you have guys who fit a Gap Scheme but your OC wants to run IZ and OZ, guess what you are running? Yes it is your job to teach it but if your OC doesn't listen to you when you tell him what your guys run best, is that necessarily on you?

And if your O-Line coach is a bad teacher and has not developed a single O-Lineman in a very long time, that shouldn't be on the OC. It works both ways.

(06-28-2021, 08:10 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2021, 11:50 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Which is taught by the O-Line coach.

Correct but let's say you have guys who fit a Gap Scheme but your OC wants to run IZ and OZ, guess what you are running? Yes it is your job to teach it but if your OC doesn't listen to you when you tell him what your guys run best, is that necessarily on you?

This would hold more water if it was a new oline coach. Warhop has been around for two decades, coached every scheme, and by all accounts has been among the worst at it the whole time.

(06-28-2021, 08:01 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-28-2021, 08:10 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Correct but let's say you have guys who fit a Gap Scheme but your OC wants to run IZ and OZ, guess what you are running? Yes it is your job to teach it but if your OC doesn't listen to you when you tell him what your guys run best, is that necessarily on you?

This would hold more water if it was a new oline coach. Warhop has been around for two decades, coached every scheme, and by all accounts has been among the worst at it the whole time.

If you are a bad coach, you don't stick around in the league.

(06-28-2021, 10:50 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-28-2021, 08:01 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]This would hold more water if it was a new oline coach. Warhop has been around for two decades, coached every scheme, and by all accounts has been among the worst at it the whole time.

If you are a bad coach, you don't stick around in the league.

So, how is Warhop still employed? When is the last time he developed and O-Linemen? Certainly not in his time here. He didn't in Tampa either.

(06-28-2021, 08:01 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-28-2021, 08:10 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Correct but let's say you have guys who fit a Gap Scheme but your OC wants to run IZ and OZ, guess what you are running? Yes it is your job to teach it but if your OC doesn't listen to you when you tell him what your guys run best, is that necessarily on you?

This would hold more water if it was a new oline coach. Warhop has been around for two decades, coached every scheme, and by all accounts has been among the worst at it the whole time.

"...by all accounts..." really?  All accounts?   I assume you mean that everybody thinks he's a terrible coach.  Who specifically says he's "among the worst," other than yourself?

(06-28-2021, 10:38 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-28-2021, 08:10 AM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ]Correct but let's say you have guys who fit a Gap Scheme but your OC wants to run IZ and OZ, guess what you are running? Yes it is your job to teach it but if your OC doesn't listen to you when you tell him what your guys run best, is that necessarily on you?

And if your O-Line coach is a bad teacher and has not developed a single O-Lineman in a very long time, that shouldn't be on the OC. It works both ways.

Cann went from horrible to average

(06-27-2021, 07:15 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2021, 03:41 PM)MarleyJag Wrote: [ -> ]Our interior OL can best be described as average. All the credit for Robinson's rookie season goes to Robinson himself. The tackles are awful at pass pro. Maybe it was scheme. The OL is the weakest link on the team though. At least they were last year, reserving judgement for now.

Exactly. To me, average is fine, but you are "spot on" about Cam Robinson and Jawaan Taylor. If it was the scheme, nothing will change since Warhop is back.

I think we just need a single domino to come in and have all the OL talent fall into the right spots. Hopefully that's Walker Little at LT. I think Cam Robinson would be a probowl level RT. Jawaan Taylor might have to play Guard if he can't get his consistency issues sorted out. Linder is an excellent Center aside from a few untimely penalties; and I really think we need to rotate/change/upgrade the Guard spots; it's the easiest position to find and somehow we have a LOT of $$$ invested into subpar players in Norwell & Cann. Norwell is solid but not worth the price-tag and Cann I just don't think is very good, he'll stick on an NFL roster but by no means should he be our starter at RG.

Curious to see what Ben Bartch will be after one more year in the weight room & the best nutrition & sports performance staff being brought in.

I think we get one more year out of Norwell and two more tops out of Linder, so some combo of Little, Bartch, Taylor along with two guys who aren't on the roster today will be the starters in 2023. Better draft well next year.

Lots of ways this could play out.

I do like Warhop coming out and making it known he doesn’t like his tackles’ performance in pass protection. His track record is bad, but he moved up a tiny notch with me for airing that out.

Best case scenario is Little is good enough to take over a tackle spot and one of the current starters upgrades a guard spot.

Um... how about Robinson’s 3.2 yard-after-contact average. Did the great oline help there? He averaged 4.5 a carry but my eye balls said outstanding bright spot on a horrible team lead with a meh line.

(06-29-2021, 06:38 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-28-2021, 10:38 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]And if your O-Line coach is a bad teacher and has not developed a single O-Lineman in a very long time, that shouldn't be on the OC. It works both ways.

Cann went from horrible to average

Is this where we are at now? Really? We are considering going from bad to average, development? When a rookie comes in and takes a starting role, I expect him to be average right away. That's kind of the standard. Look how long it has taken Cann to get to this point. Development means taking an average lineman and turning them into something good or even better. Warhop has not done that in many years, if ever.

(06-29-2021, 07:11 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-29-2021, 06:38 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Cann went from horrible to average

Is this where we are at now? Really? We are considering going from bad to average, development? When a rookie comes in and takes a starting role, I expect him to be average right away. That's kind of the standard. Look how long it has taken Cann to get to this point. Development means taking an average lineman and turning them into something good or even better. Warhop has not done that in many years, if ever.

Development means teaching, instructing and motivating the player enough to move the needle.  Which direction that needle has been moving is up for debate.