Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Norwell has sucked since he got here.  He's not worth the cap hit and there are plenty of options available that would be an upgrade in both FA and the draft.  Best to cut the bad contracts now.

(03-06-2021, 11:38 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]Norwell has sucked since he got here.  He's not worth the cap hit and there are plenty of options available that would be an upgrade in both FA and the draft.  Best to cut the bad contracts now.

Such as?

If the rumor is true, then the staff must strongly believe they can acquire an equal to or better OG talent for likely equal or less pay. It would not surprise me to learn that they asked Norwell to take a paycut, and he said no.

With the current and coming cuts to further enrich the free agency pool, and the expected reasonable and low cost to sign many of the mid tier (and possibly some higher tier on short deals) free agents, the Jags could be wanting to maximize their available cap in order to take full advantage of the unique situation. As so many teams do not have the cap to spend, the Jags have the chance to really take advantage of the situation, and better the roster substantially.

(03-06-2021, 07:00 PM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ]If the rumor is true, then the staff must strongly believe they can acquire an equal to or better OG talent for likely equal or less pay.  It would not surprise me to learn that they asked Norwell to take a paycut, and he said no.  

With the current and coming cuts to further enrich the free agency pool, and the expected reasonable and low cost to sign many of the mid tier (and possibly some higher tier on short deals) free agents, the Jags could be wanting to maximize their available cap in order to take full advantage of the unique situation.  As so many teams do not have the cap to spend, the Jags have the chance to really take advantage of the situation, and better the roster substantially.

Agreed completely...especially if the glut of IOL materializes on the market like some have predicted.

I just hope that if there is an upgrade available, the team signs him fast, especially in conjunction with a Trent Williams signing.

I would like to remind everyone we went 1-15 last year with 0 Pro Bowlers. Throw Bartch in there and let him do his thing.

(03-07-2021, 12:36 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I would like to remind everyone we went 1-15 last year with 0 Pro Bowlers. Throw Bartch in there and let him do his thing.

I think it's too early to throw him in the starting lineup. It could get Lawrence hurt. With that said, I would love to see him come into training camp and the preseason and earn the starting job. I just think it's dangerous to assume he will do so.

I want him to earn it as well.

(03-07-2021, 12:41 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2021, 12:36 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I would like to remind everyone we went 1-15 last year with 0 Pro Bowlers. Throw Bartch in there and let him do his thing.

I think it's too early to throw him in the starting lineup. It could get Lawrence hurt. With that said, I would love to see him come into training camp and the preseason and earn the starting job. I just think it's dangerous to assume he will do so.

(03-07-2021, 12:45 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I want him to earn it as well.

I have little doubt he will earn the starting role immediately.

That said, I would be reluctant to start him until I was confident the OL had it together enough to protect him to the best of its ability.

(03-07-2021, 12:36 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I would like to remind everyone we went 1-15 last year with 0 Pro Bowlers. Throw Bartch in there and let him do his thing.

Bartch was a small school player chosen to develop, and had only played on the OL for 2 collegiate seasons.  Based on last season, he was/is still pretty raw.  I think he is ultimately an OT, although they gave him work at OG this past season.  I am not sold that he's the guy at OG if they move on from Norwell.

In my mind, a sleeper to watch will be Tre'rour Wallace-Simms for the spot. He was undrafted, with good size, but did get elevated from the practice squad 4 games towards the end of the season. He was a 1st team all-conference (SEC) player in 2018.

(03-05-2021, 12:35 PM)JaG4LyFe Wrote: [ -> ]Bartch to LG?

....this is the only thing I can imagine, is that they are confident that someone on the roster is able to pick up the slack, and likely at a discount.

We are not in any way strapped for cap room, so making the move from Norwell is either a situation where he and the OL coach aren't gelling, or we have someone in mind to replace him.

An absolute head-scratcher from the outside looking in.

(03-07-2021, 12:36 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I would like to remind everyone we went 1-15 last year with 0 Pro Bowlers. Throw Bartch in there and let him do his thing.

....so a popularity contest is now the standard we use to determine who makes the roster?

Are you saying that Norwell is the reason we lost multiples of games?

This can either become a very enlightening discussion, or a complete bonkers one. Either way, consider me intrigued.  For now.

(03-05-2021, 07:01 PM)jagsfan06 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-05-2021, 01:26 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ]Because the Jaguars have the most salary cap space in the NFL at present, they have the luxury of keeping Andrew Norwell until his expected replacement can be added.  

As much as it would benefit Norwell to be released ASAP ( if he's indeed going to be released ), the Jaguars would be hurting their contract leverage with FA Guards if Norwell is released before his replacement is secured.

Very well stated D6. 

I thought that Norwell was one of the better players on the team last year even if his performance was not commensurate with his performance. 

There are some nice prospects at the guard position that I think will be available in the mid rounds of the draft.

Thanks, jagsfan06.

The middle rounds of most drafts are an excellent opportunity to put together the majority of an Offensive Line. One GM who did a masterful job with this is former Packers GM , Ted Thompson, who sadly passed away back in January.  Thompson selected the following eventual quality starting Offensive Lineman in the 4th or 5th Round:

1. T David Bakhtiari ( 4th )
2.  G T. J. Lang ( 4th )
3. G Josh Sitton ( 4th )
4. T Don Barclay ( 4th )
5. C Corey Linsey ( 5th )

(03-05-2021, 08:02 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-05-2021, 01:26 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ]As much as it would benefit Norwell to be released ASAP ( if he's indeed going to be released ), the Jaguars would be hurting their contract leverage with FA Guards if Norwell is released before his replacement is secured.

I disagree on this point.

If there ends up a glut on IOL on the market as many predict (and what seems to be happening), I'm not sure that will have any real negative impact on any contract leverage.

Every year there are cap casualties.  Every year, the teams that cut players due to the cap ends up signing players to replace them.

If there are a bunch of offensive linemen on the market, they will want to work and get paid.  If a team is offering a reasonable contract, the player will sign.

If they wait, they will be without a chair when the music stops, because when other players sign and roster spots and the money under the cap disappears, they will be with fewer viable options.

All of this said, I still say we should keep Norwell.

Good points.

Even with what you mentioned is factored in,  an agent can use a glaring need against the Jaguars. If his client is clearly the G that the Jaguars preference to replace Andrew Norwell is, he can try to up the ante substantially... knowing that the Jaguars have the salary cap space to afford his client.  If a team that's further along the road to Super Bowl contention has a firm lower offer on the table, the agent can use that as leverage more easily than if Andrew Norwell was still on the roster.

(03-08-2021, 11:05 AM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-05-2021, 07:01 PM)jagsfan06 Wrote: [ -> ]Very well stated D6. 

I thought that Norwell was one of the better players on the team last year even if his performance was not commensurate with his performance. 

There are some nice prospects at the guard position that I think will be available in the mid rounds of the draft.

Thanks, jagsfan06.

The middle rounds of most drafts are an excellent opportunity to put together the majority of an Offensive Line. One GM who did a masterful job with this is former Packers GM , Ted Thompson, who sadly passed away back in January.  Thompson selected the following eventual quality starting Offensive Lineman in the 4th or 5th Round:

1. T David Bakhtiari ( 4th )
2.  G T. J. Lang ( 4th )
3. G Josh Sitton ( 4th )
4. T Don Barclay ( 4th )
5. C Corey Linsey ( 5th )

Great point.

I have long argued the best GMs use the middle rounds to build the best OLs.

The great Dallas OLs of the 90s were build with mid round picks.  Walsh built the 49ers offensive lines and Beathard built the great Hogs with those mid round picks.  Your example with the Packers further exemplifies this concept.

(03-08-2021, 11:55 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...a-pay-cut/

Upon first reading this my reaction was incredulity. But I'm sure (hopefully) the FO people at least did some cursory research to see what Norwell would get elsewhere before their proposition. 

For the sake of continuity with TL incoming, I hope Norwell agrees. This buys time to find a better replacement.

(03-08-2021, 11:46 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-08-2021, 11:05 AM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks, jagsfan06.

The middle rounds of most drafts are an excellent opportunity to put together the majority of an Offensive Line. One GM who did a masterful job with this is former Packers GM , Ted Thompson, who sadly passed away back in January.  Thompson selected the following eventual quality starting Offensive Lineman in the 4th or 5th Round:

1. T David Bakhtiari ( 4th )
2.  G T. J. Lang ( 4th )
3. G Josh Sitton ( 4th )
4. T Don Barclay ( 4th )
5. C Corey Linsey ( 5th )

Great point.

I have long argued the best GMs use the middle rounds to build the best OLs.

The great Dallas OLs of the 90s were build with mid round picks.  Walsh built the 49ers offensive lines and Beathard built the great Hogs with those mid round picks.  Your example with the Packers further exemplifies this concept.

Thanks, Bullseye.

As impressive of a job that Bill Walsh, Bobby Beathard, and Jimmy Johnson did in building Offensive Lines with very few 1st or 2nd Round picks, Ted Thompson accomplished this with the Packers entirely in the current Free Agent / Salary Cap era. This indicates that every NFL team is capable of doing the same from this point forward under the parameters of the current CBA ( In place through the 2030 season. ).

(03-08-2021, 11:55 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...a-pay-cut/

A related thought came to mind when reading the article. 

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Urban Meyer's strategy is to be very active with big ticket FAs in 2021. With the plan on front loading most of the new contracts. Hence, taking advantage of the Jaguars excellent 2021 salary cap situation. 

An additional risk with this type of strategy ( besides losing interior Offensive Line continuity if Andrew Norwell is let go ) is many, if not most players and agents, have short memories. By year 3 or year 4 of a long term contract,  the perception will be their contracts are outdated.

(03-08-2021, 11:46 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-08-2021, 11:05 AM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks, jagsfan06.

The middle rounds of most drafts are an excellent opportunity to put together the majority of an Offensive Line. One GM who did a masterful job with this is former Packers GM , Ted Thompson, who sadly passed away back in January.  Thompson selected the following eventual quality starting Offensive Lineman in the 4th or 5th Round:

1. T David Bakhtiari ( 4th )
2.  G T. J. Lang ( 4th )
3. G Josh Sitton ( 4th )
4. T Don Barclay ( 4th )
5. C Corey Linsey ( 5th )

Great point.

I have long argued the best GMs use the middle rounds to build the best OLs.

The great Dallas OLs of the 90s were build with mid round picks.  Walsh built the 49ers offensive lines and Beathard built the great Hogs with those mid round picks.  Your example with the Packers further exemplifies this concept.

That is indeed one of the best examples of drafting quality offensive linemen. I remember really liking David Bakhtiari and thinking that who ever drafted him would be getting a value, but with that said, I had no idea he'd end up being as good as he is. With LT though, guys like Bakhtiari are very rare. You usually don't find premier LT's that late in the draft. You definitely can find very good players at all the other O-Line positions in the middle of the draft though. Great OG's, Centers and RT's can even be found in the later rounds of the draft. That's where I'm hoping we find competition for Jawaan Taylor at RT.

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(03-08-2021, 12:41 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-08-2021, 11:55 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...a-pay-cut/

A related thought came to mind when reading the article. 

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Urban Meyer's strategy is to be very active with big ticket FAs in 2021. With the plan on front loading most of the new contracts. Hence, taking advantage of the Jaguars excellent 2021 salary cap situation. 

An additional risk with this type of strategy ( besides losing interior Offensive Line continuity if Andrew Norwell is let go ) is many, if not most players and agents, have short memories. By year 3 or year 4 of a long term contract,  the perception will be their contracts are outdated.

That would definitely be my strategy with acquiring Trent Williams. I'd sign him to a 3 year deal and front load the contract so much with guaranteed money, that no other team could compete. That would buy us at least 2 years with a "rock solid" blind side protector for our new QB.

(03-08-2021, 01:41 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-08-2021, 11:46 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Great point.

I have long argued the best GMs use the middle rounds to build the best OLs.

The great Dallas OLs of the 90s were build with mid round picks.  Walsh built the 49ers offensive lines and Beathard built the great Hogs with those mid round picks.  Your example with the Packers further exemplifies this concept.

That is indeed one of the best examples of drafting quality offensive linemen. I remember really liking David Bakhtiari and thinking that who ever drafted him would be getting a value, but with that said, I had no idea he'd end up being as good as he is. With LT though, guys like Bakhtiari are very rare. You usually don't find premier LT's that late in the draft. You definitely can find very good players at all the other O-Line positions in the middle of the draft though. Great OG's, Centers and RT's can even be found in the later rounds of the draft. That's where I'm hoping we find competition for Jawaan Taylor at RT.

Agreed completely.

Take your LTs early.

Every other OL position can be found later.