(05-01-2021, 04:48 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2021, 12:12 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Understandable.
The more I think about the pick, I have more problems regarding how the team will utilize him.
Everyone predicted great things for Reggie Bush when he came out in 2006. He had insane speed, acceleration, good hands, change of direction, and open field ability. What he didn't have was a lot of bulk and good between the tackles running ability. In essence he was a receiving back. As a result, even a great coach like Payton didn't seem to know how to utilize him or get the most out of him. Given all the hoopla surrounding him, he should have had more impact.
While I like Ettienne as a player, it's no stretch to say he is not quite the prospect Reggie Bush was coming out. How will he be utilized? Meyer said he will be a 3rd down back. Taking that at face value, even factoring in his breakaway ability and hands, I'm not sure that role warrants a 1st round pick. He'll be an asset, but can the offense maximize his contribution?
Reggie Bush was the 2nd overall pick in the draft. Etienne was drafted with the 25th pick. That's a huge difference.
I am convinced that Etienne is a special player and he will do some great things for us. Remember, it's a 17 game season now, and bell cow running backs rarely last an entire season without missing games due to injury. You need more than one.
The point wasn't so much as to compare Etienne to Bush, but to illustrate that receiving backs don't maximize their productivity if they are not properly utilized. It seemed that the Saints never quite figured out what to do with Reggie Bush-as talented as he was. If you look back at Bush's career, he wasn't as productive as you might have expected. I think that is due in part to him being a receiving back, which reduced the number of touches he got, which, in turn, reduced his impact.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...shRe00.htm
If Etienne is going to be utilized similarly to Bush, then I'm left to wonder how productive he will be. Granted he wasn't picked to be #2 overall, but as a first round pick, he will carry high expectations. If he's limited to 3rd downs, how many touches could he realistically be expected to have? How will limited touches limit his impact? How likely would it be for him to meet the expectations of a first round pick?
If I had to give a more direct player comp with Etienne, it would be with CJ Spiller.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...ilC.00.htm
Let's just hope he manages to stay healthier than Spiller.
(05-01-2021, 05:21 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2021, 04:48 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Reggie Bush was the 2nd overall pick in the draft. Etienne was drafted with the 25th pick. That's a huge difference.
I am convinced that Etienne is a special player and he will do some great things for us. Remember, it's a 17 game season now, and bell cow running backs rarely last an entire season without missing games due to injury. You need more than one.
The point wasn't so much as to compare Etienne to Bush, but to illustrate that receiving backs don't maximize their productivity if they are not properly utilized. It seemed that the Saints never quite figured out what to do with Reggie Bush-as talented as he was. If you look back at Bush's career, he wasn't as productive as you might have expected. I think that is due in part to him being a receiving back, which reduced the number of touches he got, which, in turn, reduced his impact. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...shRe00.htm
If Etienne is going to be utilized similarly to Bush, then I'm left to wonder how productive he will be. Granted he wasn't picked to be #2 overall, but as a first round pick, he will carry high expectations. If he's limited to 3rd downs, how many touches could he realistically be expected to have? How will limited touches limit his impact? How likely would it be for him to meet the expectations of a first round pick?
If I had to give a more direct player comp with Etienne, it would be with CJ Spiller.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...ilC.00.htm
Let's just hope he manages to stay healthier than Spiller.
My direct comp to Etienne is Christian McCaffrey. See what I did there? It's easy to find a similar player who failed, and make that the comp, just like it's easy for me to compare him to a star player.
I don't think he's going to be strictly a "3rd down back," no matter what Meyer says now. He's way too good for that. They will get him 15-20 touches per game, and he will get us minimum 10 TDs in a season. That is easily worth the 25th pick in the draft.
(05-01-2021, 05:52 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2021, 05:21 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]The point wasn't so much as to compare Etienne to Bush, but to illustrate that receiving backs don't maximize their productivity if they are not properly utilized. It seemed that the Saints never quite figured out what to do with Reggie Bush-as talented as he was. If you look back at Bush's career, he wasn't as productive as you might have expected. I think that is due in part to him being a receiving back, which reduced the number of touches he got, which, in turn, reduced his impact. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...shRe00.htm
If Etienne is going to be utilized similarly to Bush, then I'm left to wonder how productive he will be. Granted he wasn't picked to be #2 overall, but as a first round pick, he will carry high expectations. If he's limited to 3rd downs, how many touches could he realistically be expected to have? How will limited touches limit his impact? How likely would it be for him to meet the expectations of a first round pick?
If I had to give a more direct player comp with Etienne, it would be with CJ Spiller.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...ilC.00.htm
Let's just hope he manages to stay healthier than Spiller.
My direct comp to Etienne is Christian McCaffrey. See what I did there? It's easy to find a similar player who failed, and make that the comp, just like it's easy for me to compare him to a star player.
I don't think he's going to be strictly a "3rd down back," no matter what Meyer says now. He's way too good for that. They will get him 15-20 touches per game, and he will get us minimum 10 TDs in a season. That is easily worth the 25th pick in the draft.
urban has said part of his philosophy is getting each of his playmakers the ball a certain amount of times every game, and if he feels the gamescript hasn't given a talented guy enough opportunities he manufactures touches for them. I have a feeling that Etiene will be used on Kick Returns along with Agnew, he'll line up in the slot, and they may have him and Robinson on the field at the same time to threaten between the tackles with JRob & stretch the defense horizontally with Etiene's speed.
The way he utilized Percy Harvin at florida and how he moved everyone around at Ohio State makes me think he's not as rigid with positions in that "oh etiene can't play bc Robinson is the RB" it's more like he wants each playmaker to get the ball and he'll find a way to scheme the ball into his hands. if etiene gets 10-15 touches/looks a game including ST's than the pick was worth it. This team needs talent, period. It needs playmakers and homerun hitters in the worst way, hopefully Etiene can be that guy. Still not a huge fan of RB's in the first round but the pick is growing on me.
(05-01-2021, 05:52 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2021, 05:21 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]The point wasn't so much as to compare Etienne to Bush, but to illustrate that receiving backs don't maximize their productivity if they are not properly utilized. It seemed that the Saints never quite figured out what to do with Reggie Bush-as talented as he was. If you look back at Bush's career, he wasn't as productive as you might have expected. I think that is due in part to him being a receiving back, which reduced the number of touches he got, which, in turn, reduced his impact. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...shRe00.htm
If Etienne is going to be utilized similarly to Bush, then I'm left to wonder how productive he will be. Granted he wasn't picked to be #2 overall, but as a first round pick, he will carry high expectations. If he's limited to 3rd downs, how many touches could he realistically be expected to have? How will limited touches limit his impact? How likely would it be for him to meet the expectations of a first round pick?
If I had to give a more direct player comp with Etienne, it would be with CJ Spiller.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...ilC.00.htm
Let's just hope he manages to stay healthier than Spiller.
My direct comp to Etienne is Christian McCaffrey. See what I did there? It's easy to find a similar player who failed, and make that the comp, just like it's easy for me to compare him to a star player.
I don't think he's going to be strictly a "3rd down back," no matter what Meyer says now. He's way too good for that. They will get him 15-20 touches per game, and he will get us minimum 10 TDs in a season. That is easily worth the 25th pick in the draft.
I remembered you comparing him to McCaffrey. I think Etienne is more "straight linish" than either McCaffrey or Bush, but that comp is pretty good. I didn't choose Spiller because he failed. In fact, Spiller actually made a Pro bowl. I chose Spiller because stylistically, he's basically the same guy as Etienne: not very big, fast...good burst...not necessarily shifty or a move guy. Just get it and go. Besides, pre draft, I said I wouldn't be surprised if the Jaguars took Etienne, and I said that while he initially would not be a popular pick, he would, in time, become a fan favorite because he should be productive.
My concerns with Etienne always centered around how he will be utilized. Now if he is utilized how you suggest, then if he stays healthy and if he gets the blocking, he should be productive enough. But I think he's not going to be a between the tackles guy unless you work him on draws. He is best in space. Lots of his plays at Clemson were designed to get him in space.
I like him as a player. I believe from a purely talent perspective, he deserved to be a first round pick. But as is the case with receiving backs, often they don't get the number of touches needed to thrive and maximize their impact.
(05-01-2021, 05:52 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]My direct comp to Etienne is Christian McCaffrey. See what I did there? It's easy to find a similar player who failed, and make that the comp, just like it's easy for me to compare him to a star player.
Etienne actually is a lot like Spiller stylistically though. He's absolutely nothing like McCaffrey. I wouldn't really call Spiller a fail either, he was just overdrafted really badly. He was a fine player though.
(05-01-2021, 08:05 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2021, 05:52 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]My direct comp to Etienne is Christian McCaffrey. See what I did there? It's easy to find a similar player who failed, and make that the comp, just like it's easy for me to compare him to a star player.
Etienne actually is a lot like Spiller stylistically though. He's absolutely nothing like McCaffrey. I wouldn't really call Spiller a fail either, he was just overdrafted really badly. He was a fine player though.
Etienne is a lot like Kamara.
(05-01-2021, 08:08 PM)Dimson Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2021, 08:05 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Etienne actually is a lot like Spiller stylistically though. He's absolutely nothing like McCaffrey. I wouldn't really call Spiller a fail either, he was just overdrafted really badly. He was a fine player though.
Etienne is a lot like Kamara.
He is similar stylistically, but Kamara is special as a receiver and has special contact balance. I think Etienne is developing nicely as a pass catcher but he's not close to that level yet, and he doesn't fight through contact hardly at all. Kamara would be a 90th+ percentile outcome for Etienne. It's possible, but to expect that comp is too much.